Science can say nothing about existence of God

[Deathbydefault]

No....science deals with the physical universe....it does not, and can not yet detect that which in beyond the physical domain....

That's under the assumption that there is something beyond the physical domain.
Also, from what I can tell there are two purposes for science,

The purpose of understanding
The purpose of developing

The better we understand the better we develop.
Science creates technology,
which then propels science,
which then creates more advanced technology.

So if there happens to be a non-physical or spiritual domain,
scientist will adapt, understand, and develop, even then.

 

[Awkward Fingers]

Sorry, as an atheist, science belongs with everything... You don't have the luxury to say,' Oh, I trust science when it is talking about this, but when something cannot be proven or disproved, science has no place...'

Opinions, art, music.
Science isn't everything.
Science deals with the material world, and things that actually exist.

Don't get me wrong, science is fun, and cool and hip, and all that..
..But it's a tool. To be used in the situations it's made for, not jammed into everything, regardless of if it fits or not.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That's under the assumption that there is something beyond the physical domain.
Also, from what I can tell there are two purposes for science,

The purpose of understanding
The purpose of developing

The better we understand the better we develop.
Science creates technology,
which then propels science,
which then creates more advanced technology.

So if there happens to be a non-physical or spiritual domain,
scientist will adapt, understand, and develop, even then.

Sure...but as I said earlier...scientific research is limited to the physical universe because of limited instrumentation to detect universal structure beyond the physical...

Here are the present fields of science....Science definition - What is science?

 

[Aly Millard]

But it is science that restricts itself to the physical universe research....there is no research done on anything else...

Because no spiritual sort of world can be proven. Also, science has done enough work trying to disprove the existence of a God, to no prevail as they targeted stories in the Bible as oppose to the apparent love people have with God, meaning people just go, 'Oh, this story is just a metaphor...'. 200 years ago most people would have believed every story in the Bible that was not explicitly labelled as a metaphor.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Because no spiritual sort of world can be proven. Also, science has done enough work trying to disprove the existence of a God, to no prevail as they targeted stories in the Bible as oppose to the apparent love people have with God, meaning people just go, 'Oh, this story is just a metaphor...'. 200 years ago most people would have believed every story in the Bible that was not explicitly labelled as a metaphor.

It is not the mandate of science to try and disprove God...that seems to be the mandate of atheists...

 

[Deathbydefault]

Sure...but as I said earlier...scientific research is limited to the physical universe because of limited instrumentation to detect universal structure beyond the physical...

Here are the present fields of science....Science definition - What is science?

I am perfectly aware of the fields of science.
My point was that the spiritual world is not observable so it cannot be understood.
If it was observable then we could understand it.
Break it apart, piece by piece.
Understand it at the smallest possible scale as we've done with our physical world.

The only issue is, we can't find it...
If we can't find it how are we to observe it?

My theory is that it isn't there.
We cannot scientifically understand the way something works when that something cannot be defined.

I cannot prove my theory true,
you cannot prove my theory false.

So let's leave this at differing opinions and be about our evenings.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I am perfectly aware of the fields of science.
My point was that the spiritual world is not observable so it cannot be understood.
If it was observable then we could understand it.
Break it apart, piece by piece.
Understand it at the smallest possible scale as we've done with our physical world.

The only issue is, we can't find it...
If we can't find it how are we to observe it?

My theory is that it isn't there.
We cannot scientifically understand the way something works when that something cannot be defined.

I cannot prove my theory true,
you cannot prove my theory false.

So let's leave this at differing opinions and be about our evenings.

You are not being scientific....if science knows it is not presently in the position to detect 95% of the cosmos (dark energy and matter)...there is lots yet to discover. A true scientist would not close their mind to future discovery....that's why science does not have a position on God one way or the other....only atheists close their minds...

 

[Awkward Fingers]

You are not being scientific....if science knows it is not presently in the position to detect 95% of the cosmos (dark energy and matter)...there is lots yet to discover. A true scientist would not close their mind to future discovery....that's why science does not have a position on God one way or the other....only atheists close their minds...

Strange..
I haven't once seen an atheist that said he refused to look at evidence, if good evidence actually was presented.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Strange..
I haven't once seen an atheist that said he refused to look at evidence, if good evidence actually was presented.

But don't you see....religion is not science...science is objective...religion is subjective...if you want to have evidence...try spending a few hours each day in meditation for a few years..the proof of the pudding is in the eating...

 

[Bunyip]

But don't you see....religion is not science...science is objective...religion is subjective...if you want to have evidence...try spending a few hours each day in meditation for a few years..the proof of the pudding is in the eating...

Meditation would not produce evidence of Gods. That would be a waste of time.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Meditation would not produce evidence of Gods. That would be a waste of time.

Quite true.....

 

[Deathbydefault]

You are not being scientific....if science knows it is not presently in the position to detect 95% of the cosmos (dark energy and matter)...there is lots yet to discover. A true scientist would not close their mind to future discovery....that's why science does not have a position on God one way or the other....only atheists close their minds...

I am not an atheist for one, I'm something religions dislike even more.

For two, I love the idea of future discovery. I'm working my way through college to be at the front of new discoveries.
I want to help science advance, I want to be able to detect that 95%. I'm a firm believer that so long as there are people to understand science,
there will be the ability to eventually understand everything. A perfect world to me is a world where everything is understood with facts and evidence.

For three, I am not a true scientist and, to my current understanding, neither are you.
So for you to say, "a true scientist would not" allows me to disregard whatever comes afterwards in the sentence.
Though I did refute that point anyways so I suppose it doesn't matter now.

For four, science does have a position on god. God has become a scientific theory. Science is there for us to understand such things, remember?
To my current knowledge, there is no real proof to the existence of any form of spiritual deity. No evidence that can be supported, nothing at all really.

So for someone to ever ask me to believe in something with no real proof that it even exist is absolutely ludicrous.
It's still baffling that anyone buys into it at all. However, I do not mind it, even through my dislike of it. So long as it isn't imposed it isn't a concern.

Of course those last sentences were put there to get my jabs in, and of course they were also opinions. (I'm not here for a flame war).

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I am not an atheist for one, I'm something religions dislike even more.

For two, I love the idea of future discovery. I'm working my way through college to be at the front of new discoveries.
I want to help science advance, I want to be able to detect that 95%. I'm a firm believer that so long as there are people to understand science,
there will be the ability to eventually understand everything. A perfect world to me is a world where everything is understood with facts and evidence.

For three, I am not a true scientist and, to my current understanding, neither are you.
So for you to say, "a true scientist would not" allows me to disregard whatever comes afterwards in the sentence.
Though I did refute that point anyways so I suppose it doesn't matter now.

For four, science does have a position on god. God has become a scientific theory. Science is there for us to understand such things, remember?
To my current knowledge, there is no real proof to the existence of any form of spiritual deity. No evidence that can be supported, nothing at all really.

So for someone to ever ask me to believe in something with no real proof that it even exist is absolutely ludicrous.
It's still baffling that anyone buys into it at all. However, I do not mind it, even through my dislike of it. So long as it isn't imposed it isn't a concern.

Of course those last sentences were put there to get my jabs in, and of course they were also opinions. (I'm not here for a flame war).

I didn't say you were an atheist....

Good for you....

Believe what you like...

Show me the evidence that science does God?

Who cares who asked what of you about believing in God...off topic..

 

[Deathbydefault]

I didn't say you were an atheist....

Good for you....

Believe what you like...

Show me the evidence that science does God?

Who care's who asked what of you about believing in God...off topic..

No, you didn't say it, you implied it.

I will, feel free to do the same.

Science is understanding, that's why it not only applies to objective things,
such as atoms and genetics, but also to subjective things, such as psychology and religion.
Google
Do the research on what you please yourself.

I care, and I'm who matters to me, therefore all that I said was to please myself.
I was under the impression this thread was about science not being able to say anything about God.
Since science cannot physically speak I took the second definition of liberty to speak in it's favor.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, you didn't say it, you implied it.

I will, feel free to do the same.

Science is understanding, that's why it not only applies to objective things,
such as atoms and genetics, but also to subjective things, such as psychology and religion.
Google
Do the research on what you please yourself.

I care, and I'm who matters to me, therefore all that I said was to please myself.
I was under the impression this thread was about science not being able to say anything about God.
Since science cannot physically speak I took the second definition of liberty to speak in it's favor.

Ok..so it is all about you....you are not an atheist...you are at college...you believe science does god....you want to use this thread to talk about awful folk trying to get you to believe in god....and you are posting this stuff to please yourself... Thanks for keeping us all in the loop about yourself...just like facebook...

 

[Deathbydefault]

Ok..so it is all about you....you are not an atheist...you are at college...you believe science does god....you want to use this thread to talk about awful folk trying to get you to believe in god....and you are posting this stuff to please yourself... Thanks for keeping us all in the loop about yourself...just like facebook...

Anytime I didn't say it quite how it seems you have taken it, but that's okay!

So long as you understand I'm 3/4 science lover and 1/4 narcissist we're on the same page about me.
Speaking of me, I was raised devoutly Christian and was never allowed access to anything truly scientific as a child.
Matter of fact, that lack of science continued all the way through high school, from which I graduated half a month ago.
Every single thing I know about science is what I have learned, or taught, myself.

And that "awful folk" thing is half true, when families are so dedicated to their religion that their son comes second.
Half not true, as proven by some of my mormon and muslim friends.

So while I'm narcissisticly spouting my life story why not move on to a less "feel sad for me" topic.

Me, loving logic and what not allowed me to understand that there may, by some minuscule chance, be a form of God(s).
So I gave myself a few belief options, my favorite turned out to be apatheism.
You know what apatheism is? Let me tell you anyways.
It basically means that even if there is a form of higher being, I don't care.
If Jesus himself walked up to me on the street and showed me proof of his miracles,
he'd get a, "that's cool I guess" from me.

Enough about me sharing my life, would you like to give me an explanation of why you are who you are?

This is only half related to the thread as I, in some way, am explaining why I think on this subject the way I do.

Why do you think how you think? What process made you you? What put you in a position to say that science has nothing to do with god?

Above all else, why do we have to insult each other? Human nature sucks.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Anytime I didn't say it quite how it seems you have taken it, but that's okay!

So long as you understand I'm 3/4 science lover and 1/4 narcissist we're on the same page about me.
Speaking of me, I was raised devoutly Christian and was never allowed access to anything truly scientific as a child.
Matter of fact, that lack of science continued all the way through high school, from which I graduated half a month ago.
Every single thing I know about science is what I have learned, or taught, myself.

And that "awful folk" thing is half true, when families are so dedicated to their religion that their son comes second.
Half not true, as proven by some of my mormon and muslim friends.

So while I'm narcissisticly spouting my life story why not move on to a less "feel sad for me" topic.

Me, loving logic and what not allowed me to understand that there may, by some minuscule chance, be a form of God(s).
So I gave myself a few belief options, my favorite turned out to be apatheism.
You know what apatheism is? Let me tell you anyways.
It basically means that even if there is a form of higher being, I don't care.
If Jesus himself walked up to me on the street and showed me proof of his miracles,
he'd get a, "that's cool I guess" from me.

Enough about me sharing my life, would you like to give me an explanation of why you are who you are?

This is only half related to the thread as I, in some way, am explaining why I think on this subject the way I do.

Why do you think how you think? What process made you you? What put you in a position to say that science has nothing to do with god?

Above all else, why do we have to insult each other? Human nature sucks.

Fine ....... I don't mind listening to your story, nice that you are outgoing enough to share....

First, speaking as an old man whose working life was mostly spent in the high tech (for the time) space and aerospace fields, and who is now retired and thus has been through the trials and tribulations, and successes and joys that life is apt to provide...I would hope you will one day forgive your parents for what you perceive as misguided parenting...remember that they too have been facing their own angels and demons, all the while raising you...

As for apatheism...well that's fine for now...but keep your doors open and who knows who will walk into your life...like attracts like...be honest and correct...and you will meet others of like standard...and the converse is also true...

I am now what I am...I got into meditation in my early thirties and it brought about events that led me to understand that, as far as my own cosmic journey was concerned, I had much to learn about what and who I really was in the context of the bigger picture....this is ongoing.. My life has been one of serious meditation for over thirty years..

So far as science and god is concerned, since you are now a college student...here is a link to berkeley.edu article on the subject...this may help you understand my position ...Science has limits: A few things that science does not do

Oh..and this I found helpful, a very interesting site....Space Theology (Astrotheology): What is Space Theology?

Even Time agrees with the Astrotheology position above.. .Why Science Does Not Disprove God - TIME

With regards to your question on trading insults...one can be simultaneously a teacher and student...humility is the key to being a good student, ie. knowing when one is out of depth....teaching humility, when and as appropriate, is a part of being a good teacher.. As a young person...best you wear the humble hat most of the time until you know more about life, the universe, and the goal you are to meet in it...

Life is difficult, that is a given...get over it...and the higher your goal, the more difficult it will be...

Art is for a long time,
Life is for a short time.
So meet your mark,
It your art of life..... - anon

Sorry if I hurt your feelings...

 

[Deathbydefault]

Fine ....... I don't mind listening to your story, nice that you are outgoing enough to share....

First, speaking as an old man whose working life was mostly spent in the high tech (for the time) space and aerospace fields, and who is now retired and thus has been through the trials and tribulations, and successes and joys that life is apt to provide...I would hope you will one day forgive your parents for what you perceive as misguided parenting...remember that they too have been facing their own angels and demons, all the while raising you...

As for apatheism...well that's fine for now...but keep your doors open and who knows who will walk into your life...like attracts like...be honest and correct...and you will meet others of like standard...and the converse is also true...

I am now what I am...I got into meditation in my early thirties and it brought about events that led me to understand that, as far as my own cosmic journey was concerned, I had much to learn about what and who I really was in the context of the bigger picture....this is ongoing.. My life has been one of serious meditation for over thirty years..

So far as science and god is concerned, since you are now a college student...here is a link to berkeley.edu article on the subject...this may help you understand my position ...Science has limits: A few things that science does not do

Oh..and this I found helpful, a very interesting site....Space Theology (Astrotheology): What is Space Theology?

Even Time agrees with the Astrotheology position above.. .Why Science Does Not Disprove God - TIME

With regards to your question on trading insults...one can be simultaneously a teacher and student...humility is the key to being a good student, ie. knowing when one is out of depth....teaching humility, when and as appropriate, is a part of being a good teacher.. As a young person...best you wear the humble hat most of the time until you know more about life, the universe, and the goal you are to meet in it...

Life is difficult, that is a given...get over it...and the higher your goal, the more difficult it will be...

Art is for a long time,
Life is for a short time.
So meet your mark,
It your art of life..... - anon

Sorry if I hurt your feelings...

Thank you for that reply.
I feel that we now know each other well enough that we can talk more levelly

I'd rather not go into my hardships, as they are more than I would have preferred dealing with from the start.
I can say though that I do have experience and I do have intelligence and I do know the world for what it is.
I am paying for college myself after all and I officially get kicked out of my home in a month, so that's nice too.

That difficulty you mentioned is something I strive for, a challenge.
There is no difficulty for me in the scientific fields, none so much that's it's dropped me below my 4.0
I want hardships of the mind not of the body, but sadly I shall feel one more so than the other.
Those articles are interesting but they have their respective holes as well, I appreciate you trying to help me out.

Honestly, thank you for that.

I'm happy you found that spirituality works for you, but everyone has their respective peace sign.
Mine just happens to be drowning in various studies, mainly in physics.
Maybe one day I will find what you mentioned, maybe one day you'll give it up.
The future is the future so there's no way of knowing for sure.

No feelings were hurt. Again, thank you.

"You will die because you must die.
Death is what makes us equal"
-unknown

No matter what we will always be equal in that one thing, morbid as it may be at least it's something to share.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

"You will die because you must die.
Death is what makes us equal" -unknown

No matter what we will always be equal in that one thing, morbid as it may be at least it's something to share.

Dear Deathbydefault.....your life is yet young...lots to learn...death only affects that which was designed to have a use by date......but material things, in the generic sense, are forever... My body will die....as soon as my goal has been realized...some are upset that it has taken me so long.... Btw, I am not my body...though it is an extension of my true being... You can believe what you like about what and who you are in the larger cosmic context...but better than belief is true knowing...that's what the Latin word science actually means....knowledge...

 

[Aupmanyav]

Opinions, art, music.
Science isn't everything.
Science deals with the material world, and things that actually exist.

Don't get me wrong, science is fun, and cool and hip, and all that..
..But it's a tool. To be used in the situations it's made for, not jammed into everything, regardless of if it fits or not.

There is NOTHING on which can escape science, even art, music, psychology, or the non-existent almighty God.

A true scientist would not close their mind to future discovery....that's why science does not have a position on God one way or the other....only atheists close their minds...

Oh, yes. Similarly, whether a tea-pot is circling the earth or not, or if there are pink fairies and green elephants. Ben, don't be so apologetic.

Brahman is not God (at least for me). It is 'physical energy' which transforms into mass/substance, it is the sole constituent of all things in the universe including dark matter and dark energy.