Science IS religion

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I have watched this thread during its brief life and even participated in a very limited way. Having seen it expand to 24 pages now, I think this thread boils down to one thing.

You cannot reason with a plant.

No matter what logic, reason or evidence you provide a plant, the plant will not change.

The irony here is that a religious person is asserting that science is religion and arguing that science can be dismissed, because it is religion. Clearly the person making the assertion considers that religion has no value in the discussion or they would not be demanding the dismissal of arguments based on religion.

That religion has no value in the discussion is the only convincing argument that they have made. Therefore, every statement made based on religion can be dismissed. This includes the assertion that science is religion.

We can all go home now.

I forgot, plants cannot uproot themselves and are stuck where they are until the end.

Yes.... but I have found, that with a sufficiently attractive lure?

You can reason with a dog. Or a horse. Or even a cat.

Does that mean? That a horse/dog/cat is more teachable-- more reasonable-- than a creationist?

Yes.... even a cat.

 

[dad]

Is jesus dead or not?

If not? He didn't actually die... not in any meaningful way.

If he's dead? Well... he cannot save anyone then, can he?

Wrong thread. Let me know if you guys start that thread about all this stuff.

 

[dad]

Do not lie about me. Lying is unbecoming. Did not your god command you to NEVER BEAR FALSE WITNESS?

I do believe he did-- and here you are, bearing false witness in print.

You claim to believe in nothing? Ha. You think it is a lie when someone points out that is incorrect? Ha.

 

[dad]

It is quite true: You can lead a Creationist to Knowledge, but you cannot make him Think.

Proof? I submit the totality of the non-think as demonstrated by the above sample, who henceforth shall be addressed in the Third Person.

Will the poster really post in the third person?

 

[dad]

Y

You can reason with a dog. Or a horse. Or even a cat.

Does that mean? That a horse/dog/cat is more teachable-- more reasonable-- than a creationist?

It means they would take the food and you might think it was because of your religion. They would know better

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Wrong thread. Let me know if you guys start that thread about all this stuff.

I see you are Running Awaaaaaaayyyyyyy....

Perhaps I can ask you again--- since it is fundamental to your religion:

Did Jesus stay dead or not?

I will await your next opportunity to Run Awaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy!

The rabbit has nasty, sharp teeth!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You claim to believe in nothing? Ha. You think it is a lie when someone points out that is incorrect? Ha.

There is a vast, giant world of difference between "believe in nothing" and "Do not believe at all"

Alas, the above poster does not speak English, in the normal sense. Everything this poster reads, is automagically filtered through Creationist Tinted Glasses©.

You, too can view the world as a Creationist does-- with these one size fits nobody Creationist Tinted Glasses©.

Caution! Known side-effects: the world suddenly collapses into a two dimensional state, with just two colors: Black or White, and everyone who does not instantly agree with you, is automatically a Satanist. In fact?Wearing Creationist Tinted Glasses© can lead to the false belief that you are the sole Speaker For God® and over 8 billion other people are just wrong.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We are not talking about the past but the nature that may have existed then. (thousands and thousands of years ago)

I do not know how the forces and laws existed at the time. Nor does science. Yet science bases models of the past on the idea (belief) that it was the same as now. If that belief is expressed as science, yes I doubt it and demand real evidences or proof.

Why and how is there reason to assume the laws of physics were fundamentally or radically different at the beginning of the universe than they are now?

 

[Bear Wild]

For genetics to even be relative to origin issues we need it to have existed (as we know it today) in the past. That is the issue. Want to prtend you have some knowledge of that?! If so, by all means prove it was the same! If not get off the silly soap box and defend your religion with some dignity.

Why would I not accept any and all evidence?? You simply need to stop trying to slide in your beliefs and belief molested evidences as evidence!

So what, you say it is not when it is! So there.

Relax, you could not argue my beliefs, They are sacred, untouchable, secure, unchanging, and built upon a rock. All you need to argue is your fable factory nonsense falsely labeled as science.
You have NO evidence for your religion. Why talk as if there is some hiding in the woods or grass somewhere. I accept all evidence. You have none.

So, get some if you want origin sciences to be thought of as more than religion!


I see you have an opinion of Scripture. Whoopee doo.
No problem, consider yourself corrected.

Whoopee doo??????? What an amazing argument. You do not know what my religions is evidently since my religion is not science so you have already made a false claim. Your beliefs are no more sacred or untouchable or secure than any other religion. You have no evidence for your belief but what is in your head alone. Science is based on evidence which evidently frightening to you because you know your belief have no evidence. You make false statements like "I accept all evidence" which you have demonstrated to be untrue. Your only technique is to keep repeating your beliefs over and over and over and over again to make you feel they are true.

Example: For genetics to even be relative to origin issues we need it to have existed (as we know it today) in the past. This is a false statement based on the study of genetics itself. You want it to be true so you just say it even though everyone has provided more than enough support to show that genetics changes as predicted in evolution.

What is belief molested evidence? Just another grandiose statement to protect yourself from reality. You cannot present a single worthwhile piece of verifiable evidence but you can criticize other peoples well supported evidence out of ignorance. That is sad Dad.

 

[dad]

There is a vast, giant world of difference between "believe in nothing" and "Do not believe at all"
.

Well the thread is about a belief set of origin sciences. Do you believe in the TOE? BB? If that is too hard to answer maybe baby steps here..do you believe the nose is really on your face? Do you believe in last week?

 

[dad]

Why and how is there reason to assume the laws of physics were fundamentally or radically different at the beginning of the universe than they are now?

Why is there reason to believe they were the same as now? There should be some reason if science uses that premise...no?

History and the bible indicate that the past had some stark differences. If science claims something else, let's see some proof? Or do you want blind faith for your religion?

 

[siti]

Run Awaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy!

It really is uncanny how Pythonesque themes spring so readily to mind in discussions with creationists.

 

[siti]

History and the bible indicate that the past had some stark differences.

No they don't - they indicate that the writers didn't have a clue what they were talking about.

 

[siti]

do you believe the nose is really on your face?

In my case, yes - in yours? I can't tell on account of it being hidden behind the hat you are talking through!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why is there reason to believe they were the same as now?

If there were such changes we could expect to see deviations in the patterns of light emitted from the furthest sources of light compared to those closest to us. But light that took millions of years to get here looks the same as light that took billions of years.

History and the bible indicate that the past had some stark differences.

The Bible is not an accurate source of history, and history doesn't really go back that far. Geology, on the other hand, goes back very far and it shows us physics have remained consistent.

Or do you want blind faith for your religion?

I don't have a religion (and I'm not an atheist before you assume).

 

[dad]

Whoopee doo??????? What an amazing argument. You do not know what my religions is evidently since my religion is not science so you have already made a false claim.

Science is the name of the religion game in this thread. Do you deny science? Renounce it completely? Ha. Either that or you have religion.

Your beliefs are no more sacred or untouchable or secure than any other religion. You have no evidence for your belief but what is in your head alone.

If you want to discuss the bible start a thread. Seems to be lots of interest with posters here. Science is too insignificantly small and puny and weak to be able to cover a religion as big as mine. So we would not ask poor little so called science for evidence regarding it. There is a world of evidence in history and life though of course. So maybe find a thread where you can read about some of it. Here we are roasting your belief set called science. We have seen a classic colossal fail of posters here to provide evidence for the beliefs of origin sciences. Instead, some allude to evidence they can never produce, let alone debate. Others try to get off topic and discuss other religions and beliefs. This thread is not bout time tested and proven and sacred beliefs of the One true God. This thread is about the dirty deceitful fraudulent little beliefs of so called science foisted on humanity for too long now as some sort of actual 'science'!

Science is based on evidence

NOT so called sciences dealing with origin issues. If you claim otherwise post this evidence right away!! Ha.

You make false statements like "I accept all evidence" which you have demonstrated to be untrue

If you feel any of the few belief based statements of faith offered as evidence are evidence then you do not know what evidence is or is not.

Real science has evidences. Actual observations repeatable tests etc etc. Your religious fables have diddly squat.

Example: For genetics to even be relative to origin issues we need it to have existed (as we know it today) in the past. This is a false statement based on the study of genetics itself.

Says you. Creation and the evolution that matters was in the past. You must know that much? If you mouth off claims about how you can trace genetics back to that far past, obviously it had to exist. If not..explain? Ha.

You want it to be true so you just say it even though everyone has provided more than enough support to show that genetics changes as predicted in evolution.

Circular religion and thinking. They USE present DNA to see how it works, and then model the past after this. The 'genetic changes' you talk about are here and now. We do not even have good samplings of animal DNA from hundreds of millions of years ago! So how are you going to tell us about their DNA ? Divining rod? Crystal ball? Blind faith?

What is belief molested evidence?

That is where you paint whatever you see with beliefs.

You cannot present a single worthwhile piece of verifiable evidence

The thread is about the beliefs of origin sciences. I presented examples of how it is belief based. I am not here to present 'verifiable' (by sillyscience) evidence for MY beliefs. You are here to do that for YOUR beliefs that have been wrongly labeled science.

but you can criticize other peoples well supported evidence ...

Belief supported doesn't count. That is not well supported. that is...religion!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Science is the name of the religion game in this thread. Do you deny science? Renounce it completely? Ha. Either that or you have religion.

If you want to discuss the bible start a thread. Seems to be lots of interest with posters here. Science is too insignificantly small and puny and weak to be able to cover a religion as big as mine. So we would not ask poor little so called science for evidence regarding it. There is a world of evidence in history and life though of course. So maybe find a thread where you can read about some of it. Here we are roasting your belief set called science. We have seen a classic colossal fail of posters here to provide evidence for the beliefs of origin sciences. Instead, some allude to evidence they can never produce, let alone debate. Others try to get off topic and discuss other religions and beliefs. This thread is not bout time tested and proven and sacred beliefs of the One true God. This thread is about the dirty deceitful fraudulent little beliefs of so called science foisted on humanity for too long now as some sort of actual 'science'!

NOT so called sciences dealing with origin issues. If you claim otherwise post this evidence right away!! Ha.
If you feel any of the few belief based statements of faith offered as evidence are evidence then you do not know what evidence is or is not.

Real science has evidences. Actual observations repeatable tests etc etc. Your religious fables have diddly squat.

Says you. Creation and the evolution that matters was in the past. You must know that much? If you mouth off claims about how you can trace genetics back to that far past, obviously it had to exist. If not..explain? Ha.


Circular religion and thinking. They USE present DNA to see how it works, and then model the past after this. The 'genetic changes' you talk about are here and now. We do not even have good samplings of animal DNA from hundreds of millions of years ago! So how are you going to tell us about their DNA ? Divining rod? Crystal ball? Blind faith?
That is where you paint whatever you see with beliefs.
The thread is about the beliefs of origin sciences. I presented examples of how it is belief based. I am not here to present 'verifiable' (by sillyscience) evidence for MY beliefs. You are here to do that for YOUR beliefs that have been wrongly labeled science.
Belief supported doesn't count. That is not well supported. that is...religion!

May I ask why you have a picture of Einstein as your avatar?

 

[Sand Dancer]

You claim to believe in nothing? Ha. You think it is a lie when someone points out that is incorrect? Ha.

Atheism is only a disbelief in any deities. That leaves room for believing in many other things in the universe.

 

[dad]

If there were such changes we could expect to see deviations in the patterns of light emitted from the furthest sources of light compared to those closest to us. But light that took millions of years to get here looks the same as light that took billions of years.

False. No distances to any star are known. The distances depend on time existing all the way to the star the same as here. That is not known. They could be days away. Or months away for all we know. Besides, we are talking about earth. What happens on earth may not reflect the whole universe. Man has not been very far, what, several light SECONDS or whatever to the moon!? Ha. Even man's furthest probe is not even ONE LIGHT DAY away!
Voyager - Mission Status

We could call the solar system and area the fishbowl. Man has never been out of this fishbowl! All light from stars we see streaming in HERE. So we could not expect any change here since that light we see now exists HERE! So once again science doesn't know.

The Bible is not an accurate source of history,

Maybe start a thread talking about whether God's word is accurate or not.

and history doesn't really go back that far.

True. But even Sumer claimed very long life spans. Egypt claims it's early kings were spirit gods! So there are some notable difference to today's world and nature!

Geology, on the other hand, goes back very far and it shows us physics have remained consistent.

Geology is riddled with belief based dating methods and does not even address what nature was like here that I recall.

I don't have a religion (and I'm not an atheist before you assume).

Regardless of what you claim, you are a defender of the faith of so called origin sciences!

 

[dad]

Atheism is only a disbelief in any deities. That leaves room for believing in many other things in the universe.

Great so you believe in stuff...such as the origin sciences religion!