Science IS religion

[ImmortalFlame]

Nothing contradicts my beliefs actually, unless you mean other beliefs.

Well, apparently, evolution contradicts your beliefs. Does it not?

Is that your opinion!?

Actually, no. It's true by definition. Opinions do not equal facts.

Take a microscope and look for the creator in either one. Get back to us with the results.

Already done. No creator.

Nonsense. Name one.

Tiktaalik. https://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/

Finding a fish that adapted to land (or was created for both land and water) is not finding a creature evolution predicted. That is TOE fraudulently claiming credit for God's work, and doing so based solely on faith.

Now you're just clutching at straws.

See, fossils like Tiktaalik were not only predicted to exist by evolutionary theory, but by using evolutionary models they were able to predict exactly where and at what layer they would expect to find it. I.E "If species x and species y share a common ancestor, that ancestor would have traits a and b and be found in location z around c years ago". Then we find exactly that thing. That's pretty strong evidence that evolution is a model that actually works.

As for your weird "God" assertions in this passage, you're yet again just displaying a theistic bias. Evolution says nothing about God. Evolution will not take your God away.

NO prediction is working that is based on the early aspects of the theory, ONLY what is based on observed processes of creation!

See above.

Bias works in all belief systems. You just are sore that my bias is not for your religion.

Except your bias is clearly more blatant, and whatever bias I may have doesn't prevent me from accepting reality like yours does. You reject facts that you feel contradict your preconceived beliefs, because those beliefs are too fragile to stand up against reality.

But it really isn't that hard to believe in God and in evolution. Seriously, give it a try!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That has zero to do with mechanisms that used to exist. Origin issues involve a time long gone you know.

All living things reproduce, and no mechanism has ever been found that allows entire populations of organisms to appear spontaneously out of nowhere. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that species in the fossil record are the result of reproduction of previous species.

Do you have a more reasonable conclusion?

When speaking of building blocks and chemical process and etc that help make up a human being, one need not religiously separate terms.

So you seriously don't know the difference between cells and genes?

 

[ChristineM]

The OP has nothing to do with questions about how the Christian faith or bible are supported. It is about getting those who support your religion to stop pretending it is more. And for lurkers, no I do not doubt last week. I doubt the dreamed up models of the past that sillyscience puts out.

What you doubt is the evidence that proves your claim to silly. Science is the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Note those words, observation and experiment, they mean science is not woo but an academic discipline.

Now for religion ... the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

So now lets see you come up with a superhuman controlling power worshipped by scientists.

Dont worry, ill wait for your answer.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You do actually. Denial doesn't help.

Do not lie about me. Lying is unbecoming. Did not your god command you to NEVER BEAR FALSE WITNESS?

I do believe he did-- and here you are, bearing false witness in print.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

If you believe you don't that is a belief right there! If you believe in origins sciences, then you are drowning in them.

Do not lie about me. Lying is unbecoming of a Sentient Being.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

If a horse was led to water but refused to drink, I admit we may feel some pity for it.

It is quite true: You can lead a Creationist to Knowledge, but you cannot make him Think.

Proof? I submit the totality of the non-think as demonstrated by the above sample, who henceforth shall be addressed in the Third Person.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do not lie about me. Lying is unbecoming of a Sentient Being.

It's not so much lying as it is a complete and total misunderstanding of science. He can't use the right words because he doesn't know them. He says "origin science" because Evangelicals promote it as something that exists to the point of explaining how life got here (typically states as evolution, which is, again, erroneously used) being something science claims to have figured out.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You led me to doubt your ability to lead yourself out of a room without walls.

Oh. My. that was brilliant!

I hereby bow in humble appreciation to such a well crafted example of sarcasm. It has all the best elements: Accuracy, clear imagery, and is not so over the top as to fall into hyperbole.

I salute you, sir! And if ever we are to meet? I so owe you a beer or five.

 

[dad]

You are using an arbitrary rule of the past so you win. You don't know that, you just make the rule up, so it fits your beliefs. You doubt other beliefs, but not your own. There is the double standard again.

We are not talking about the past but the nature that may have existed then. (thousands and thousands of years ago)

I do not know how the forces and laws existed at the time. Nor does science. Yet science bases models of the past on the idea (belief) that it was the same as now. If that belief is expressed as science, yes I doubt it and demand real evidences or proof.

 

[dad]

No you choose to believe in a past that fits your religion and don't use the doubt you use on other world views on your own. Double standard again

We all have beliefs. How do you fit stuff in yours? (besides whining about other people having beliefs)

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I ignore all parts that start with dad under the consideration that they are not fit for human consumption.

I am now doing the same-- unless I'm directly quoted, I only read the quoted parts from other people's comments.

It speeds up things considerably. And I do find the comments made by others, quite interesting.

 

[dad]

That is not true. You have been given that many times. This tells us that you do not understand the nature of evidence. Also you do not seem to understand you are shifting the burden of proof. An attempt by those that have lost the debate. If you want to claim there was a change in nature the burden of proof is upon you.

History does not record any such differences and the Bible is of course a book of myths.

Spam posting, where you pretend you posted something is your modus operandi . Perhaps some unwary lurker will be impressed or believe it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just checking in to see if any progress has been made.
<looks about>
Oh, dear.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I met a person a month or so ago at a local Home Depot that appeared to be experiencing paranoid delusions and wanted to know if a capacitor in her smoke detector was a camera. She also had not seen LED bulbs before and was completely freaked out by the one she found in her bathroom. Apparently, she was separating from her husband and was absolutely certain he had left these devices to spy on her. It was very strange.

True paranoia-- in the clinical sense-- can be quite disheartening to witness. My empathy goes out to these people, who cannot manage to function without intense feelings of persecution and worse.

Sadly? There are other cases, who are not suffering a brain malfunction (as above) but instead, have been grossly manipulated by circumstances, and are operating under absolutely false pretenses. Fortunately? If they have the will, they can easily get better by the simple act of Studying Things. Knowledge is the cure for what ails them, and in this day of Al Gore's Intertubes? Knowledge is practically free-- but there is a danger.

The interwebs also contain the largest collection of human-created bull exhaust ever compiled, since the beginning of time.

One thing I have observed among the younger sort, who grew up with this Monster? They are, usually, a lot better at filtering out what is plainly dumb, and what is useful. Some of us old Fogies, who grew up with Dead Tree Encyclopedias (a kind of primitive internet), which required physical travel to something called a Library, to access Knowledge. Back then? The creation of an Encyclopedia was so expensive, that -- usually-- the knowledge contained therein was pretty high quality. It therefore took more work for us post-WW2 kids to develop a really good BS detector.

Alas... some of our generation never did learn that trick...

 

[dad]

Well, apparently, evolution contradicts your beliefs. Does it not?

Not at all in fact I think evolving happened at breakneck speed in the past. Evolving is another gift of God and created trait! (don't confuse the word evolved with the theory of evolution that is basically creation denial)

Actually, no. It's true by definition. Opinions do not equal facts.

Someone thought they did? Let's one up that...your religion does not equal facts.

Already done. No creator.

Says you and your fable factory dream machine.

Tiktaalik. https://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/

Great example of so called science trying to grasp at straws and claim glory for some creature it is clueless about as far as whether it was created or evolved, or evolved from what..when etc!

See, fossils like Tiktaalik were not only predicted to exist by evolutionary theory, but by using evolutionary models they were able to predict exactly where and at what layer they would expect to find it. I.E "If species x and species y share a common ancestor, that ancestor would have traits a and b and be found in location z around c years ago". Then we find exactly that thing. That's pretty strong evidence that evolution is a model that actually works.

I could have done that while chewing gum. You kidding? Naturally, as the exodus and migration or fish and animals and man went out from the Eden area, the rapid evolving of the day required a lot of adapting to various habitats. That migration was early in the fossil record as expected! In no way does this mean anything related to the evolution of life from lower lifeforms as per the TOE!

We do not know if that was a created kind of fish or creature, or whether a created kind evolved and adapted as needed (rapidly). Nor is the fossil record any indication of ancestors since most animals and man probably could not leave fossil remains in that former nature! In all ways TOE is a belief set with NO evidence and even less of a clue!

As for your weird "God" assertions in this passage, you're yet again just displaying a theistic bias. Evolution says nothing about God. Evolution will not take your God away.

A fable that says nothing about the truth is biased!

..whatever bias I may have doesn't prevent me from accepting reality

I agree, you are not prevented from accepting reality by your fable belief and religion. You are prevented from being able to recognize it so that you could accept it!

You reject facts

Your unsupportable beliefs are not facts. (as we see by your inability to post anything but belief based hooey)

that you feel contradict your preconceived beliefs, because those beliefs are too fragile to stand up against reality.

But it rea

lly isn't that hard to believe in God and in evolution. Seriously, give it a try![/QUOTE]? Try to ungibberishize this.

 

[dad]

All living things reproduce, and no mechanism has ever been found that allows entire populations of organisms to appear spontaneously out of nowhere.

Being deliberately created is not appearing out of nowhere. In your religion they can't say where the wunder speck singularity that spawned the very universe came from or why!

Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that species in the fossil record are the result of reproduction of previous species.

Most probably are, unless the few original created kinds happened to include some that could fossilize. But since most creatures as well as man could probably not fossilize, we do not have a fossil record of much of a sampling of life on earth in any given time!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Ok, He stayed dead only three days and two nights. He did not die for our sins. He took the weekend off for our sins.

Paying for our sins that way was pretty cheap, wasn’t it?

Ciao

- viole

Weekend at Jahovah's? Could be a plot for a comedy.... naaah... nobody would believe it.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

This quote if from your post..

"He did not die for our sins."

Is jesus dead or not?

If not? He didn't actually die... not in any meaningful way.

If he's dead? Well... he cannot save anyone then, can he?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Thats right. He just took the passover weekend off for our sins. At best. Do you think we should be impressed by that? Are you impressed?

Ciao

- viole

He would have missed out on Sunday Afternoon Brisket.... that's a pretty big sacrifice in some circles.

 

[dad]

What you doubt is the evidence that proves your claim to silly.

What you pretend to have and cannot post is such evidence.

Science is the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Great so it can stick to the fishbowl and the present and lose the religious part.

Note those words, observation and experiment, they mean science is not woo but an academic discipline.

Note this, there was no experiment that says the nature of the past was the same or that time exists the same in deep space. They observe the fishbowl! Then they philosophize accordingly. That is the scientific method.

Now for religion ... the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Origin sciences qualify.

"
Definition of religion


1a: the state of a religious /a nun in her 20th year of religion
b(1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural
(2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : /CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith


Haha

So now lets see you come up with a superhuman controlling power worshipped by scientists.

We can leave dark inspiration out of this for now. Suffice it to say, the origin sciences for whatever reasons are belief based!