Science IS religion

[dad]

I do. Just as you are skeptical about what scientists know, I can be skeptical about what you know. And if I can't know, what you know, then it is subjective in you and not about the world as such.
Don't play knowledge with a global skeptic.

Nope. Science has told us what it says and why it says it. We do know what it says. For example, it says man has evolved from other 'animals'. We know why the claims are made. Why the dates are used etc etc etc.

You do not know what I think, because probably all you ever read is this thread or maybe a few threads..or whatever.

 

[dad]

Thank you for supporting my correction of your error. Those weak passages do not even define what the "word of God" is. It clearly does not say that the Bible is the word of God and in fact it could not be the Bible if you think about it logically. Once again dad defeats himself.

What did you think it meant, reading inscriptions from idols? Lyrics from the songs of Babylon's court? Keep us posted.

 

[dad]

Its not? Wow you surprise me, most of your posts shout last Thursdayism.

You wrote the OP, sorry if you dont like the way your OP is panning out

The OP has nothing to do with questions about how the Christian faith or bible are supported. It is about getting those who support your religion to stop pretending it is more. And for lurkers, no I do not doubt last week. I doubt the dreamed up models of the past that sillyscience puts out.

 

[dad]

You should inform yourself.

I repeat, there is at present no theory on the origins of the universe or the origins of life.

Repeat it all you like. The fact of the matter is that many 'sciences' do involve origins of man and the world and universe. Obviously.

Note the word theory. There are a couple of hypothesis, some of them promising, but nothing conclusive.

What about the word?

Not that neither big bang theory nore evolution theory, are theories of origins.

Since TOE claims you are related to a cockroach, and a worm and a banana, please explain why you think that is not about where man came from? Since the BB teaches that the universe we know started at a certain point, explain how you think that the origin of stars and galaxies and the solar system are not included! Perhaps save your denial for things less obviously beyond the power to deny?

 

[dad]

Yes, as does everybody, including you, every day of their lives.

When you boot your pc, you don't assume that electromagnitism today works differently then it did back when the transistor was invented.

Now the rubber hits the road.

Please show us how you know that the electromagnetic attraction in atoms between atomic nuclei and their orbital electrons was identical millions of (your imaginary) years before science existed? (don't try to use stars you claim are millions of light years away unless you first prove time exists the same out there)

Also, how do you know that most of what are now isotopes in a daughter parent relationship that we see were not here many thousands of years ago?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What did you think it meant, reading inscriptions from idols? Lyrics from the songs of Babylon's court? Keep us posted.

Who knows? Clearly not the Bible since it did not exist in its present form at that time. None of the New Testament would have qualified since it was clearly referring to a work that already existed. The books you quoted from were in the works of the author of Luke, a person that claimed he was not an eyewitness and written more than two generations after the fact. Try to think logically.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Now the rubber hits the road.

Please show us how you know that the electromagnetic attraction in atoms between atomic nuclei and their orbital electrons was identical millions of (your imaginary) years before science existed? (don't try to use stars you claim are millions of light years away unless you first prove time exists the same out there)

Also, how do you know that most of what are now isotopes in a daughter parent relationship that we see were not here many thousands of years ago?

Sorry, it does not work that way. Changing those constants would have dire effects for everything we know about the universe. It would essentially make life as we know it impossible. The burden of proof is upon you to prove that there was a change since all of the evidence indicates there was not one.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The word "misunderstand" is not independent of human thought, yet it is a part of the workings of reality. Even the word "work" is human and relies on human thought. And that you don't like that I understand this differently involves a feeling; "don't like".

I object to your metaphysical and ontological model, because I make sense of the rest of reality relevant for the philosophy involved and I get that you are thinking with words about how words connect to reality. That is what makes this philosophy. Both what you are doing and what I am doing.
So for the logic operation OR and the connection to the everyday world. All words and signs are in the world, about the world and works as a part of the world. The limit of OR for objective and subjective, is that objective reality causes subjectivity in humans. So as strong formal OR, it breaks down, because subjectivity is as real and exists just like atoms.
I know this and you know it, because we both talk about and consider it to exist and be real in some sense.
Now how atoms and subjectivity are connected, we haven't even begone to touch on.
Nor reductionism and or supervenience as logical in the connection between the physical and the mental.

Dude, give it a rest already.

No, the way things like gravity work is not dependend on human opinion, feelings, emotions, beliefs or philosophical shenannigans.

I can't believe how many times it must be repeated.
I can't believe it needs to be repeated at all.
I can't believe someone is actually arguing against such mega flipping obviousness..........

No matter what your subjective opinion is, if you jump from the empire state building without protection, you'll plummet to your death with an acceleration of 9.81 meters per second per second, modified by variables of atmospheric resistance.

Please..........................................

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I am going to play with the idea of a creator God. The only thing required with a creator God, is that this God is the first unmoved mover. But it doesn't stop there. Because this God is the source of everything, there can't be any limits to what this God can do. If there is a limit, then this God is not the first unmoved mover.

So here is the reductio ad absurdum on that type of God.
God is bored. God can be that, otherwise there is a limit, but there can't be a limit and you can't tell, God not to be bored, because then you limit God. You can't tell what God has to be, because then you limit God.
God creates a devil and tells this devil, that she is bored. God chose to be a woman, because God can do that. The devil answers: You can do everything, right? So then without creating this world create it so it is natural, without a creator God and no souls in these self-aware beings, which name themselves humans and no Heaven, when they die,. God did so and created the world last Thursday without actually doing it, because there is no God in this world.

Now I am going to be fair and do the same to science and the natural world without a creator God.
Look up a Boltzmann Brain. In short it is a paradox within the theories about QM, that you can't rule a Boltzmann Brain universe, A universe where the only thing that exists, is you as a brain. Now you die fairly quickly, but there is another variant in between a single brain or a whole universe. This universe is a computer and its power supply, which runs you as program and simulate the rest of the universe as it appears to you.

Now what does these 2 examples have in common? That you don't control the world, the world controls you and if it cheats and is not fair and is not as you believe it is, you can't know that or do anything about it.

So dad and everybody else. Don't play knowledge with a skeptic about whether you Know what reality really is. You don't; you believe you can trust your senses and reasoning and the world is fair, but you don't Know it.
So here is how I do it, I trust the world whether natural or from God to be fair and that the world is in general as it appears to be. In effect I believe in a natural God or a supernatural one, which is fair in both cases. I can do more with the supernatural God, but that is faith and I don't use God to judge other humans. I act in practice among other humans as a part of the everyday world and start with: We are all equal as humans and have worth, yet we are different as individuals. BTW that is also a belief, because you can't do that with reason, logic and evidence alone. You have to believe in it, for it to work.

Peace

 

[dad]

Who knows?

Who knows what the word of God is? Well, Jesus read from the written word and also explained it was impossible for what was written not to be fulfilled.

Clearly not the Bible since it did not exist in its present form at that time.

Of course Scripture existed.

None of the New Testament would have qualified since it was clearly referring to a work that already existed.

Jesus fulfilled all that was in that. He went on to add that He had more to say and guaranteed that His Spirit would be sent to people to get it right.

The books you quoted from were in the works of the author of Luke, a person that claimed he was not an eyewitness and written more than two generations after the fact. Try to think logically.

I don't recall Jesus saying all of what He would bring to remembrance would be from what you call eyewitnesses? Do you claim that Luke never knew witnesses and was able to compile a great record based on this??

But maybe get together with Christine (the poster with the skull of death in the avatar) and start a thread on all that stuff.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Dude, give it a rest already.

No, the way things like gravity works is not dependend on human opinion, feelings, emotions, beliefs or philosophical shenannigans.

No, not graivty, but "Dude, give it a rest already." is. You are thinking and using feelings to influence me and change me to become like you. So thoughts and feelings can change some parts of reality. Humans can influence each other through thoughts and feelings.
So no, your model of reality is not correct,

 

[Bear Wild]

And I may share the air I breathe with a frog. I may share water I swim in with a fish. I may have a light gleam in my eyes like star light. I may have skin like a chicken. I may have eyes like a whale. I may climb a tree like a monkey. I may build a home with wood like a termite. I may eat honey like a bear...etc etc.

One poster was just pointing out how he did not seem to know the difference between man and a glob of chemicals. This seems to be an inherent weakness in science. They are working with only half a deck of cards and partial information, so they have a shallow perspective on life and creation and man. They see no further that the reactions/chemicals etc.!

So when there are similar chemicals or DNA or etc, they get confused real fast, and are unable to tell the difference!

You continue to demonstrate no real knowledge of genetics. Why to you even make absurd statements other than out of desperation for that lack of knowledge. The only shallow perspective is yours but it is clear you do not care. So let me ask you would you ever accept any evidence from science at all? You call science a religion even though it is not and you hold your beliefs as absolute so why even argue anything. Your opinion is god did it and that's that so no matter how good the evidence is your mind is closed with the only source of information you will accept is from an old book handed down by an oral tradition then written and copied over and over from people who were really not interested in the way nature works but rather how to follow commands. Please correct me if you are even willing to accept any scientific evidence in reference to evolution no matter how good it is otherwise just say you don't care what anyone posts your mind is closed.

 

[dad]

So dad and everybody else. Don't play knowledge with a skeptic about whether you Know what reality really is.

I see no need to confuse you with reality. Enjoy your lack of it, I guess.

You don't; you believe you can trust your senses and reasoning and the world is fair, but you don't Know it.

Anyone who thinks the world is fair is no friend of reality. Relax.

So here is how I do it, I trust the world whether natural or from God to be fair and that the world is in general as it appears to be.

Great so you take it all at face value. By the way, how does quantum strangeness look to you?

In effect I believe in a natural God or a supernatural one, which is fair in both cases.

No problem, you can believe your shoe is god if you like.

I can do more with the supernatural God, but that is faith and I don't use God to judge other humans

Looking at your concept of god I can see why.

. I act in practice among other humans as a part of the everyday world and start with: We are all equal as humans and have worth, yet we are different as individuals.

Lovely platitude and sentiment. Not sure why it is in this thread...but whatever...

May I suggest the reality of an English class?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Dude, give it a rest already.

No, the way things like gravity work is not dependend on human opinion, feelings, emotions, beliefs or philosophical shenannigans.

Well! I can tell that somebody did not read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

“There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. … Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.”

Quote by Douglas Adams: “There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to...”

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who knows what the word of God is? Well, Jesus read from the written word and also explained it was impossible for what was written not to be fulfilled.


Of course Scripture existed.

Jesus fulfilled all that was in that. He went on to add that He had more to say and guaranteed that His Spirit would be sent to people to get it right.

I don't recall Jesus saying all of what He would bring to remembrance would be from what you call eyewitnesses? Do you claim that Luke never knew witnesses and was able to compile a great record based on this??

But maybe get together with Christine (the poster with the skull of death in the avatar) and start a thread on all that stuff.

The Bible is a book of myths and tales. Anyone that read it and has at least a high school level of literacy can see this.

And you need to learn the history of the Bible. It can't claim to be the word of Dog retroactively.

Also, you really do not know what Jesus said. The stories written about him were not put in the form that you are familiar with until much more than a generation later. No eyewitness accounts.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...

Anyone who thinks the world is fair is no friend of reality. Relax.

...

Yet you believe something about the past, you can't know. Namely that there was a Jesus. So in effect you believe that reality is fair to you.
Stop, I know how you do it. You believe that reality is fair to you and reality is how you believe it is. The problem is in practice, that you judge other humans as humans with an authority you don't know if you have.

 

[dad]

You continue to demonstrate no real knowledge of genetics. Why to you even make absurd statements other than out of desperation for that lack of knowledge. The only shallow perspective is yours but it is clear you do not care.

For genetics to even be relative to origin issues we need it to have existed (as we know it today) in the past. That is the issue. Want to prtend you have some knowledge of that?! If so, by all means prove it was the same! If not get off the silly soap box and defend your religion with some dignity.

So let me ask you would you ever accept any evidence from science at all?

Why would I not accept any and all evidence?? You simply need to stop trying to slide in your beliefs and belief molested evidences as evidence!

You call science a religion even though it is not

So what, you say it is not when it is! So there.

and you hold your beliefs as absolute so why even argue anything

Relax, you could not argue my beliefs, They are sacred, untouchable, secure, unchanging, and built upon a rock. All you need to argue is your fable factory nonsense falsely labeled as science.

. Your opinion is god did it and that's that so no matter how good the evidence is your mind is closed

You have NO evidence for your religion. Why talk as if there is some hiding in the woods or grass somewhere. I accept all evidence. You have none.

So, get some if you want origin sciences to be thought of as more than religion!

with the only source of information you will accept is from an old book handed down by an oral tradition then written and copied over and over from people who were really not interested in the way nature works but rather how to follow commands.

I see you have an opinion of Scripture. Whoopee doo.

Please correct me if you are even willing to accept any scientific evidence in reference to evolution no matter how good it is otherwise just say you don't care what anyone posts your mind is closed.

No problem, consider yourself corrected.

 

[dad]

The Bible is a book of myths and tales. Anyone that read it and has at least a high school level of literacy can see this.

And you need to learn the history of the Bible. It can't claim to be the word of Dog retroactively.

Also, you really do not know what Jesus said. The stories written about him were not put in the form that you are familiar with until much more than a generation later. No eyewitness accounts.

Hilarious. Still trying to turn every thread into a witches nest of casting doubt and aspersions on God. As I said, get a thread that deals in that foolishness.

 

[Subduction Zone]

For genetics to even be relative to origin issues we need it to have existed (as we know it today) in the past. That is the issue. Want to prtend you have some knowledge of that?! If so, by all means prove it was the same! If not get off the silly soap box and defend your religion with some dignity.

Why would I not accept any and all evidence?? You simply need to stop trying to slide in your beliefs and belief molested evidences as evidence!

So what, you say it is not when it is! So there.

Relax, you could not argue my beliefs, They are sacred, untouchable, secure, unchanging, and built upon a rock. All you need to argue is your fable factory nonsense falsely labeled as science.
You have NO evidence for your religion. Why talk as if there is some hiding in the woods or grass somewhere. I accept all evidence. You have none.

So, get some if you want origin sciences to be thought of as more than religion!


I see you have an opinion of Scripture. Whoopee doo.
No problem, consider yourself corrected.

Nope dad, that is once again a shifting of the burden of proof. Since there is no evidence of a change, ever, the burden of proof is upon you to show that there was one.

Perhaps you should learn what is and what is not evidence. That might help you with this error that you keep repeating.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hilarious. Still trying to turn every thread into a witches nest of casting doubt and aspersions on God. As I said, get a thread that deals in that foolishness.

Hardly. You are the one that calls God a lair. Why you do that I don't know.