Science standards under threat in Arizona

[Subduction Zone]

Boredom? Amusement? Your imagination.

Poeing? As I said, one does not need to have multiple accounts to be a poe. It has been fun.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I guess I just have a different take on the subject. First of all because I see evolution as unsubstantiated beliefs. Secondly I view the education system, as it is, as a metaphoric lobotomy. I wouldn't want anything of value to me corrupted by that system, and verily, someone in that system had to make the call, why would they have made the call and if they weren't qualified to make that call how did they come about making it?

So, to me it appears that atheists are desperately fixated on every millimeter of ground in the public schools for obvious reasons undisclosed. Does this horrify me in and of itself. Not at all. It sort of amuses me. If I wanted to engage the interest of young minds in any given subject the last place I would choose to do so would be the educational system.

Evolution is one of those theories that you just can't argue or debate about because it's based on already established facts that support the theory. You could go to a laboratory today and see the evolutionary process unfold for yourself. Our own bodies are living proof. We still have rudimentary tails that emerge time to time as well as the fact that all of us posses tail bones, we all have fur, human embryos still have characteristics of our evolutional origins. All human beings display unique evolutionary traits that exemplify adaptation over the course of time in amazing ways.

 

[BilliardsBall]

"Astonishingly, a young-earth creationist was appointed to the evolution committee."

That is astonishing! Because science should never allow for dissent, debate or opinion in open or closed forums.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

It's sad. Since Creationists cannot possibly win in actual scientific communities?

(You know: How actual SCIENCE is done. How Quantum Theory had superseded Newton and Relativity with respect to the nano scale... that sort of thing.)

Creationists, in their infinite dishonesty, turn to Legislation to force their silly superstitions onto the unwitting public.

This is because they cannot convince people in an honest way: they don't have a single fact to back their claim. Just an old bronze-age book who's authors were confused as to what happens to the sun at night.

The worst thing? Most school budgets are badly under-funded as it is. They can ill afford to be paying huge legal fees for when they lose. Again. And again. And again...

Really, creationism is on the absolute wrong side of History.

 

[exchemist]

That's funny. You think you can water down any real Bible based beliefs, thereby replacing it and pretend to be all innocent and ****. That is most certainly funny.

Geologist by day, great antitheologist by night!

So ridiculous and pathetic.

But he's right of course. Most mainstream Christian denominations have no problem with science, as they realise the bible does not set out to be an alternative account of the physical world.

That is not "watering down" the bible, it is just using one's God-given brains.

 

[exchemist]

"Astonishingly, a young-earth creationist was appointed to the evolution committee."

That is astonishing! Because science should never allow for dissent, debate or opinion in open or closed forums.

One does not allow a debate about football in a maths class.

Similarly, one should not waste time having a debate about sectarian religion in a biology class.

The place to debate creationism is in a religion and philosophy class. Which we have in UK schools, actually.

And that is where my son has discussed creationism - to much laughter, of course, because we are in the UK.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"Astonishingly, a young-earth creationist was appointed to the evolution committee."

That is astonishing! Because science should never allow for dissent, debate or opinion in open or closed forums.

Science should be open to dissent. But not to science deniers. If he had a scientific opposition to evolution that would be acceptable, he doesn't. But then most creationists keep themselves ignorant of the scientific method and the concept of scientific evidence. Fear is a tool that they use to keep themselves in line.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

From the National Center for Science Education....

Evolution, and now climate change, under attack in Arizona

As the latest draft (PDF) of a new set of state science standards for Arizona is apparently on its way to the state board of education for its approval, concerns about the compromised treatment of evolution remain — and have been now joined by concerns about the deletion of material about climate change.

As NCSE previously reported, the treatment of evolution in a previous draft of the standards was sabotaged by staff at the state department of education at the behest of Superintendent Diane Douglas, who is on record as advocating the teaching of "intelligent design" alongside evolution and as disagreeing with the rulings that prevent it.

While "intelligent design" was not included in the draft, the revisions were clearly aimed at softening the treatment of evolution. For example, a middle-school-level standard discussing natural selection's role in speciation was revised to eliminate the e-word, "evolution," as well as the reference to speciation...

...
Astonishingly, a young-earth creationist was appointed to the evolution committee. As the Phoenix New Times reported (September 13, 2018), "Joseph Kezele, the president of the Arizona Origin Science Association, is a staunch believer in the idea that enough scientific evidence exists to back up the biblical story of creation."

While he reportedly refrained from discussing creationism during the process, "Kezele successfully convinced other members to de-emphasize evolution in at least one instance," according to the New Times, changing a description of evolution as "the explanation" for the unity and diversity of life to "an explanation."

Although there are places in which the treatment of evolution was improved, the idea of common ancestry — which is prominent in the NRC Framework for K-12 Science Education and Working with Big Ideas of Science Education, both major sources for the Arizona standards — is still absent from the draft.

Meanwhile, climate change seems also to have been targeted in the latest draft, with — for example — the wholesale deletion of the discussion of climate change in the high-school-level Earth and Space Science Plus (i.e., honors) section of the standards. It is as yet unclear what motivated these deletions.
​

If you're in Arizona and care about the quality of science education in your state, I strongly urge you to take action by contacting the State Board of Education and letting them know your views.

I'm moving to AZ where people have evolved high IQs and a backbone! Climate change is of course real its been occurring for at least 400 million years. Man (anthropocentric) caused Climate change is not happening IMO. I was watching Nat Geo where learned man was saying (not a hint of a smile or snickering) mans contributor to greenhouse gas emission was as harmful as any natural event! (it was a story of Yellowstone super volcano and the Siberia traps eruption). Well I lost it! What a LIE that was! I would bet the Traps eruption would release in one week (prob one day) more Greenhouse gasses than man has in 150 years! Wow, that was stupidly or more likely scare bating the naive and mostly ignorant masses in action! (see below)

" more than 1,200 billion tons of methane and 4,000 billion tons of sulfur dioxide could have emerged from the Siberian Traps eruption"
Earth's Greatest Killer Finally Caught

Evolution? It's JUST A THEORY click your ruby slippers together! Sorry I couldn't resist saying that, but is true too! No one can argue that there are not changes within the parameters of a species. These changes can be drastic, given enough time or environmental change, a species, say a finch may change enough to become a 'new' type finch. However, I have not seen near enough evidence to say environmental pressures etc will cause a organism to evolve into a creature in a new Phylum.

Ok send the hate mail...or not!

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm moving to AZ where people have evolved high IQs and a backbone! Climate change is of course real its been occurring for at least 400 million years. Man (anthropocentric) caused Climate change is not happening IMO. I was watching Nat Geo where learned man was saying (not a hint of a smile or snickering) mans contributor to greenhouse gas emission was as harmful as any natural event! (it was a story of Yellowstone super volcano and the Siberia traps eruption). Well I lost it! What a LIE that was! I would bet the Traps eruption would release in one week (prob one day) more Greenhouse gasses than man has in 150 years! Wow, that was stupidly or more likely scare bating the naive and mostly ignorant masses in action! (see below)

" more than 1,200 billion tons of methane and 4,000 billion tons of sulfur dioxide could have emerged from the Siberian Traps eruption"
Earth's Greatest Killer Finally Caught

Evolution? It's JUST A THEORY click your ruby slippers together! Sorry I couldn't resist saying that, but is true too! No one can argue that there are not changes within the parameters of a species. These changes can be drastic, given enough time or environmental change, a species, say a finch may change enough to become a 'new' type finch. However, I have not seen near enough evidence to say environmental pressures etc will cause a organism to evolve into a creature in a new Phylum.

Ok send the hate mail...or not!

It is so nice to see you admit that you have no understanding of the sciences at all. Anyone that says "only a theory" has demonstrated a grade school level of science education at best. Gravity is just a theory, in case you did not know. In the world of the sciences a scientific theory is as good as it gets.

Nat Geo is not the best source for science education, they do tend to get overly dramatic. Though AGW is an extremely serious problem that will not only cause human suffering but many animals to go extinct as well. But we will not see anything on the scale of the extinctions caused by various traps erupting, on that you were right.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Thanks for that crumb, I will take it! Of course I was right, not only about the trapps' thing also about evo being a theory. I don't understand why telling the truth is as bad as calling a woman the c word to some individuals! A piece of advice; don't let your emotions rule you! I still struggle with that one, and every time I lose my temper it puts me and my ideas at a disadvantage.When someone, a scientist or a layperson reacts with more emotion than the perceived insult should generate, then just maybe they agree. Like maybe you might secretively agree that evolution is a flawed, 'make it up as it goes' kind of science theory, eh?

Have a blessed day....really.

 

[Earthling]

But he's right of course. Most mainstream Christian denominations have no problem with science, as they realise the bible does not set out to be an alternative account of the physical world.

That is not "watering down" the bible, it is just using one's God-given brains.

Uh-huh. Most Christians don't mind a roman phallic symbol with Jesus on top of it hanging around their necks, thanks to Constantine. The Trinity thanks to Plato. The immortal soul thanks to Socrates. Hell thanks to Dante and Milton. Christmas thanks to Dickens, of all people, and Easter thanks to the pagan goddess of fertility, Astarte.

I'm sure Empedocles' theory of evolution will feel right at home in the rolling sea of pagan stupidity.

If they used their God given brains they would know that the Bible doesn't say earth was created in 6 days.

 

[exchemist]

Uh-huh. Most Christians don't mind a roman phallic symbol with Jesus on top of it hanging around their necks, thanks to Constantine. The Trinity thanks to Plato. The immortal soul thanks to Socrates. Hell thanks to Dante and Milton. Christmas thanks to Dickens, of all people, and Easter thanks to the pagan goddess of fertility, Astarte.

I'm sure Empedocles' theory of evolution will feel right at home in the rolling sea of pagan stupidity.

If they used their God given brains they would know that the Bible doesn't say earth was created in 6 days.

Relevance?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thanks for that crumb, I will take it! Of course I was right, not only about the trapps' thing also about evo being a theory. I don't understand why telling the truth is as bad as calling a woman the c word to some individuals! A piece of advice; don't let your emotions rule you! I still struggle with that one, and every time I lose my temper it puts me and my ideas at a disadvantage.When someone, a scientist or a layperson reacts with more emotion than the perceived insult should generate, then just maybe they agree. Like maybe you might secretively agree that evolution is a flawed, 'make it up as it goes' kind of science theory, eh?

Have a blessed day....really.

You do not seem to understand that evolution is both a theory and a fact. The theory of evolution explains the fact of evolution just as the theory of gravity explains the fact of gravity.

By the way, no scientist makes it up as they go along. Perhaps you should work on your understanding of the basics of science. It is really not that hard to understand. Creationists have to work to keep themselves ignorant, which does make it difficult to have a reasonable conversation with them.

 

[Earthling]

Relevance?

Christians would get on their knees and pray to a dog turd if it was made of gold, that some of them buy into the nonsense that is evolution - they get what they deserve.

 

[Jose Fly]

@BilliardsBall and @MrMrdevincamus

You two are missing the point of this issue. If you truly believe human-caused climate change and evolution have scientific weaknesses, then the proper venue to vet your arguments is not in middle and high school classrooms. Both human-caused climate change and evolution are strongly agreed upon by the relevant scientific communities, and as such they warrant inclusion in public school science curricula. If you want your views to be taught alongside them, you need to take the necessary steps to convince the scientific community of their validity.

Just because you believe something to be true doesn't mean it automatically gets taught in science classes.

 

[exchemist]

Christians would get on their knees and pray to a dog turd if it was made of gold, that some of them buy into the nonsense that is evolution - they get what they deserve.

Ah yes, I see, thanks. What they get is the twin benefits of Christianity and science.

Those that reject science, due to adherence to childish interpretations of the bible, get what they deserve too: stunting of the intellect. We see some of the effects of that here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ah yes, I see, thanks. What they get is the twin benefits of Christianity and science.

Those that reject science, due to adherence to childish interpretations of the bible, get what they deserve too: stunting of the intellect. We see some of the effects of that here.

Oddly enough some of the least "Christian" of Christians are those that won't accept the sciences.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's funny. You think you can water down any real Bible based beliefs, thereby replacing it and pretend to be all innocent and ****. That is most certainly funny.

Geologist by day, great antitheologist by night!

So ridiculous and pathetic.

I missed this from yesterday. Tell me, how are mythical events in the Bible "real Bible based beliefs"? If your beliefs were true you would be able to support them. That you cannot is very telling.

 

[exchemist]

Oddly enough some of the least "Christian" of Christians are those that won't accept the sciences.

Extremism rarely breeds tolerance , open-mindedness or respect for rational disputation. These are virtues associated with education. We have some biblical literalists here who disapprove of going to university, for religious reasons. What better example of stunting the intellect could there be?

Bear in mind this thread is about educating the young.......

 

[Earthling]

Ah yes, I see, thanks. What they get is the twin benefits of Christianity and science.

Really? Which one is real?

Those that reject science, due to adherence to childish interpretations of the bible, get what they deserve too: stunting of the intellect. We see some of the effects of that here.

You live in an illusion.