Science vs Faith

[Rick O'Shez]

I am a human....and I have been explaining. Life forms can only be born in longer living life forms and be sustained by life forces.... If you think otherwise...show me the evidence...

You wouldn't live very long outside the earth's atmosphere. Life needs a particular set of conditions, and those conditions are local.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

In which case "actual reality" is forever an unknown. An unknown that some need to fill up with various religious beliefs.

No.....I said that human perception of actual reality is not the actual reality...it is merely some perception....a photograph of some real thing is not that thing...merely an image of it....a representation of the real thing. If one wants to apprehend actual reality, then they must still their mind so it is free from any thoughts about it, then it is present directly...no mental interpretation of it.. I've already explained in my comment above yours', the same applies to belief...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You wouldn't live very long outside the earth's atmosphere. Life needs a particular set of conditions, and those conditions are local.

My mortal body is not outside the earth's atmosphere...everything lives in an appropriate environment.....so I have no idea what point you trying to make?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

No.....I said that human perception of actual reality is not the actual reality...it is merely some perception....a photograph of some real thing is not that thing...merely an image of it....a representation of the real thing. If one wants to apprehend actual reality, then they must still their mind so it is free from any thoughts about it, then it is present directly...no mental interpretation of it.. I've already explained in my comment above yours', the same applies to belief...

Obviously what we experience is a perception, that is a combination of physiology and psychology, this is largely an unconscious process. Altered states of consciousness can effect the psychological aspect of perception, either via meditation or drugs.

If we still the mind, then we begin to experience the nature of mind, we begin to experience the "space" that the thoughts occupy. Meanwhile the perceptual processes rumble away in the background.

Arguing that a still mind "short-circuits" the perceptual process is nonsense, not least because important aspects of the perceptual process are physiological and beyond our control.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

My mortal body is not outside the earth's atmosphere...everything lives in an appropriate environment.....so I have no idea what point you trying to make?

Conditions for life as we know it are present very close to the surface of this planet. They might well be present on other distant planets, but most of the universe is interstellar space where conditions for life are certainly not present.

This is no basis for claiming that the universe is alive or whatever. All we can say is that conditions for life are present in certain isolated locations.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Obviously what we experience is a perception, that is a combination of physiology and psychology, this is largely an unconscious process. Altered states of consciousness can effect the psychological aspect of perception, either via meditation or drugs.

If we still the mind, then we begin to experience the nature of mind, we begin to experience the "space" that the thoughts occupy. Meanwhile the perceptual processes rumble away in the background.

Arguing that a still mind "short-circuits" the perceptual process is nonsense, not least because important aspects of the perceptual process are physiological and beyond our control.

Rather than go over this again and again and again...here is a link to where we got near enough to agreement....that will do me #105

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Conditions for life as we know it are present very close to the surface of this planet. They might well be present on other distant planets, but most of the universe is interstellar space where conditions for life are certainly not present.

This is no basis for claiming that the universe is alive or whatever. All we can say is that conditions for life are present in certain isolated locations.

Wow...is your memory failing......I've said from the get go the the universe is alive...and all the forms have births and deaths....from the micro forms to the macro....interstellar space is, in the relative sense, just like the space between the atoms in your body....

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Wow...is your memory failing......I've said from the get go the the universe is alive...and all the forms have births and deaths....from the micro forms to the macro....interstellar space is, in the relative sense, just like the space between the atoms in your body....

So how is interstellar space "alive" in any meaningful sense of the word? It is conscious?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So how is interstellar space "alive" in any meaningful sense of the word? It is conscious?

Is the inter-atomic space in your body pervaded by life? Does body consciousness pervade it?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Is the inter-atomic space in your body pervaded by life? Does body consciousness pervade it?

Body consciousness is awareness of bodily sensations.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Body consciousness is awareness of bodily sensations.

There is much body consciousness which is independent of ego awareness...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There is much body consciousness which is independent of ego awareness...

So give some examples which you have personally experienced, beyond the usual physical sensations we experience in and on the body. For example, are you conscious of the spaces between the atoms in your body, and what is that actually like?

As on previous occasions, it is not much good making vague claims and then refusing to illustrate them with personal examples.

I don't think "ego" is a useful bit of terminology in these discussions because it has a specific meaning in psychology. You have done the new-age thing of appropriating it and redefining it in an idiosyncratic way. But let's leave that to one side for the moment.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So give some examples which you have personally experienced, beyond the usual physical sensations we experience in and on the body. For example, are you conscious of the spaces between the atoms in your body, and what is that actually like?

As on previous occasions, it is not much good making vague claims and then refusing to illustrate them with personal examples.

I don't think "ego" is a useful bit of terminology in these discussions because it has a specific meaning in psychology. You have done the new-age thing of appropriating it and redefining it in an idiosyncratic way. But let's leave that to one side for the moment.

Ricky...you are no even able to comprehend what is said to you....I said consciousness independent of ego awareness... Anyways...here is a good start...."The title of his book The Second Brain refers to the hundred million nerve cells in and around our guts that often act entirely independently of the dictator inside our heads." https://www.amazon.com/Second-Brain...4_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2TVGHY3WX7M09VB911EZ

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Ricky...you are no even able to comprehend what is said to you....I said consciousness independent of ego awareness... Anyways...here is a good start...."The title of his book The Second Brain refers to the hundred million nerve cells in and around our guts that often act entirely independently of the dictator inside our heads." https://www.amazon.com/Second-Brain...4_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2TVGHY3WX7M09VB911EZ

That is a different discussion, and I would appreciate a response to the question I actually asked.

Can you give some examples of your "body consciousness" thingy which you have personally experienced, beyond the usual physical sensations we experience in and on the body. For example, are you conscious of the spaces between the atoms in your body, and what is that actually like?

You often make vague claims and then refuse to illustrate them with personal examples, it would be nice to see you be specific for once.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That is a different discussion, and I would appreciate a response to the question I actually asked.

Can you give some examples of your "body consciousness" thingy which you have personally experienced, beyond the usual physical sensations we experience in and on the body. For example, are you conscious of the spaces between the atoms in your body, and what is that actually like?

You often make vague claims and then refuse to illustrate them with personal examples, it would be nice to see you be specific for once.

I have no idea what you are talking about....please quote my exact words where I implied the personal ego could experience the space between atoms?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I have no idea what you are talking about....please quote my exact words where I implied the personal ego could experience the space between atoms?

You are just playing silly word games to avoid the question. Again you have made an empty claim and can't back it up with personal examples. Tiresome and predictable.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You are just playing silly word games to avoid the question. Again you have made an empty claim and can't back it up with personal examples. Tiresome and predictable.

It is only fair to quote my words if you say I said it....it should be easy, copy and paste yes...if you do not, it is because you can't...and others will draw their own conclusions...

 

[`mud]

What the hell was the g-damned question ?
~
'mud

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What the hell was the g-damned question ?

I have given up, it is impossible to get straight answers from this character.

 

[`mud]

hey Rick,
I was asking Ben, but if you know....I'm listening