Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Why is that?
You don't see how whether or not religion offers a means to differentiate itself from myth is important? Really?
And? Are you trying to pull the "But they have problems too!" thing? Did that work with your mom?
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Science VS. Religion
- Thread starter Hevenly Heathen
- Start date
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
why is that?
wel would you say that a geological study of the sedimantary rock of Borneo could be performed using the tools of astronomy or theoretical particle physics?
maybe, but doubtful..why? different disciplines within the same umbrella. Thus we find the exact same thing or "problem" in religion, one religion is "biology" another is "chemistry" etc
You don't see how whether or not religion offers a means to differentiate itself from myth is important? Really?
If you are unable to understand the dynamics and language of biology should I conclude that biology is bunk? the same goes for religion and that whioch you label as "merely" myth.... again a model is a model
And? Are you trying to pull the "But they have problems too!" thing? Did that work with your mom?
I have posted heisenberg quotations, he is not alone in illustrating the "problems of science" again you can deny it all you like....it doesnt stop those views from existing
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
I never said they were divorced from the divine... Just that the practice of developing new processes for blending and working metal is science.
Perhaps one can... do we have a metallurgist here at RF?
wa:do
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Logical fallacy: False analogy.
The reason there are different fields of science is because, even though they adhere to the same methodology, they address different areas of inquiry. Can the same be said for religions? Was Islam developed because it addresses different questions than Judaism?
Again, false analogy.
Again, you're dodging the question. Is it important to you whether or not religion can differentiate itself from myth?
I did not label anything a myth. I'm simply asking whether or not religion offers a means to differentiate itself from myth. And you are doing everything you can to avoid directly answering the question.
I didn't deny anything. I simply pointed out that "but science has problems too" is irrelevant to what I'm asking, i.e. whether religion has a means to differentiate itself from myth. Whether or not science is perfect is irrelevant to that question and a red herring.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
actually, yes....but not entirely, of course tribal feuds were a major part...
but the answer is yes....
Just as many "shamanic" religious groups answer different "questions" than say Catholicism....
I'll answer the rest when I have a chance...
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Really? So different religions arose because of a need to address different questions, and there's little, if any, overlap in the questions each religion attempts to answer?
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
to answer very very vewry quickly
often we find the language and cosmological structure, which would compare in science to soemthing like the periodic table for instance (before someone gets all upset, we know factually that nothign can exist in isolation, as such then, even the periodic table is not truth, it is just a model of the truth, just like all science)...
So we can say that myth is often the language of religion and spirituality, its way to conceptualise and conceive of things....
does it have a means to differentiate from this, yes.... R/S in many forms goes beyond models and concepts however, by their very nature these states of being can only be hinted at and not conceptualised.
I am the one whom you have pursued, and I am the one whom you have seized. I am the one whom you have scattered, and you have gathered me together. I am the one before whom you have been ashamed, and you have been shameless to me. I am she who does not keep festival, and I am she whose festivals are many. I, I am godless, and I am the one whose God is great. I am the one whom you have reflected upon, and you have scorned me. I am unlearned, and they learn from me. I am the one that you have despised, and you reflect upon me. I am the one whom you have hidden from, and you appear to me. But whenever you hide yourselves, I myself will appear. For whenever you appear, I myself will hide from you.
--thunder the perfect mind
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
I never said that....
different religions arose to answer different questions, often.... Islam is a completion of Judaism for example...
arguably to see a more transcendant view of the abrahamic view of existince....again though not the only factor for its "creation"
there are of course many overlaps? I fail to see you point
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AxisMundi
E Pluribus Unum!!!
oi vey.
Stone knapping, the making of stone implements by chipping off small sections...
Knapping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you're going to argue antiquity, at least read up on it.
Bronze. What is bronze? How did ancient Man develop bronze?
Bronze during the Bronze Age was copper mixed with tin, in most cases, creating a metal stronger and harder than copper tools/weapons and highly resistant to corrosion. The formula for bronze is extremely delicate. Not enough tin, or too much, you've got a worthless piece of metal.
Such recipes aren't arrived at by accident. Some ancient coppersmith didn't accidentally tip his tin lamp into his molten copper. And although the Scientific Method of course hadn't been formalized at that time, such a procedure follows the Scientific Method perfectly, from conjecture and hypothesis to repeatable, predictable test results to the peer review process of other metalsmithes.
Finally...
You use the quite popular "Argumentum ad Verecundiam in absentia" as I call it, an appeal to a non-existent authority.
You state "many ancient cultures" without naming one, and without naming sources for this information.
WHICH ancient cultures, WHO says so, under WHAT conditions was this tool making considered a divine interaction, and how is this "many", a majority, arrived at?
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
AxisMundi
E Pluribus Unum!!!
Link, please.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
oh good grief...
this is why I stay out of these sections...
whenver you do provide a link or whadeva..its just on to more garbage
....
Very few blades have enjoyed the notoriety in history, literature, and film as the Japanese katana. This fame is due to the legendary quality of the blade as well as the almost mystical relationship between the katana and its wielder, the samurai. For a great part of Japanese history, only samurai were permitted to carry swords. If a peasant was found carrying a sword he would be killed on the spot, probably with a samurai sword (which seems ironic in some elusive way). The samurai often carried other weapons besides the katana, such as the bow, spear and the infamous Hair Pin of Destruction. After a period of trial and error, it was finally accpted that the prefered order of engaging an enemy was 1. Fire the bow from a distance. 2. Use the spear at long melee range 3. Draw the samurai sword for hand-to-hand. This replaced a popular but miserably ineffective technique that reversed that order.
The bond between the katana and samurai welder was sacred. The sword was always used as a last resort. The samurai believed the katana was linked to their soul and should only be drawn under the most dire of circumstances (which could include saving a nobleman or family members, defending oneself from certain death, or chopping suasages for dinner or lunch (only acceptable if you're really hungry).
Strongblade Sword Lore: History / Origin of Japanese Swords
.......
Can I have a cookie now? :sarcastic
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Ok, your answer is "yes, religion offers a means to differentiate itself from myth". What is that means?
Then why are there still Jews?
If different religions arose "often" to answer different questions, as you stated above, there should be little to no overlap in the questions each religion seeks to answer. But we don't see that at all. Instead we see the exact opposite; there is enormous overlap in the questions religions across the world seek to answer.
That tells us the different religions didn't arise out of a need to address questions the others weren't answering, but for some other reason.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
Ok, your answer is "yes, religion offers a means to differentiate itself from myth". What is that means?
Gnosis
Then why are there still Jews?
Then why are there still people using newtonian physics principles?
Because not everyone believes in Islam, not everyone wanted to leave Judaism
and again tribal feuds...
:sarcastic
If different religions arose "often" to answer different questions, as you stated above, there should be little to no overlap in the questions each religion seeks to answer. But we don't see that at all. Instead we see the exact opposite; there is enormous overlap in the questions religions across the world seek to answer.
Why? there are overlaps in science, why can there not be in R/S...
or are you saying that all the scientifixc disciplines are independant of themselves?
:sarcastic
That tells us the different religions didn't arise out of a need to address questions the others weren't answering, but for some other reason
there are always other factors....
:sarcastic this isnt rocket science.... however the aboriginal people in borneo have/had a far different approach to the divine than a catholic arch deacon..... on the surface anyway
Gnosis
Then why are there still Jews?
Then why are there still people using newtonian physics principles?
Because not everyone believes in Islam, not everyone wanted to leave Judaism
and again tribal feuds...
:sarcastic
If different religions arose "often" to answer different questions, as you stated above, there should be little to no overlap in the questions each religion seeks to answer. But we don't see that at all. Instead we see the exact opposite; there is enormous overlap in the questions religions across the world seek to answer.
Why? there are overlaps in science, why can there not be in R/S...
or are you saying that all the scientifixc disciplines are independant of themselves?
:sarcastic
That tells us the different religions didn't arise out of a need to address questions the others weren't answering, but for some other reason
there are always other factors....
:sarcastic this isnt rocket science.... however the aboriginal people in borneo have/had a far different approach to the divine than a catholic arch deacon..... on the surface anyway
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
The "spiritual knowledge of a saint" or "mystically enlightened human being" is how religion differentiates itself from myth? How so?Gnosis
And how are those principles and the results they generate validated?
So who's right? And how do you tell?
Again, you're avoiding the issue. If, as you said, different religions arose mostly to address questions the others weren't addressing, we would expect to see little overlap in the questions addressed by different religions. Instead, we see the exact opposite.
That tells us that your assertion is wrong.
You're changing the subject. The issue is as I described. Even though the Borneo people and Catholics have different approaches, there is significant overlap in the questions their religions attempt to answer.
According to what you claimed, we shouldn't see this because one of those two arose because a need to address questions the other ignored.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
How do you know? Perhaps all religion is myth. How would you tell?
AxisMundi
E Pluribus Unum!!!
No cookie for you.
I am well aware of the mysticism of the Katana, Wakasashi, and Tanto (the latter two created when a Katana broke). The Katana and Bo (long staff) are my preferred weapons outside of SCA Fencing.
You claimed that "tool making was a divine interaction", yet only show, as I thought you would, that it was the end user who applied anything approaching divine to the tool.
Cookies are waiting for you as soon as you can show proof that tool making was considered a religious affair.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Some of it is philosophy....unless that is myth too?
wa:do
wa:do
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Because I understand what myth is.