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Scientific Evidence for Universal Common Descent

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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It seems that scientists believe the 'evolution' from apes (including chimps and other non-humans) to humans did not happen with two ape-like ancestors suddenly changing into unique beings, one male and one female. Is that how you understand the so-called evolving of humans from chimpanzees and other ape types? (Sorry, but don't know exact terminology now that the majority of scientists use.)
Not speaking of going back, but somehow the apes are not moving to another state with discernible evidence lately.
No, scientists know this since they can test this concept. Learning the difference between knowledge and belief makes it easier to see why the theory of evolution is so well accepted.

and your final statement does not seem to make any sense.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Correct. Chimps are another species of ape. We share a common ancestor, and that was obviously an ape as well. Chimps are one species of ape and you and I are another species of apes. Evolution is a one way street. There is no going back and evolving into a different already existing species.
Granted that the concept of evolution is a one way street, as far as it seems. I don't see any evidence whatsoever that chimps or any other species of apes are presently evolving into another species of sorts. Chimps stay chimps so far, and humans have stayed humans for quite a while now insofar as written history goes. True that bones and other artifacts come up, but present-day life forms (such as chimpanzees) seem to have stayed as chimpanzees for quite a while now. In other words, as long as history is recorded by humans, insofar as I know.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Granted that the concept of evolution is a one way street, as far as it seems. I don't see any evidence whatsoever that chimps or any other species of apes are presently evolving into another species of sorts. Chimps stay chimps so far, and humans have stayed humans for quite a while now insofar as written history goes. True that bones and other artifacts come up, but present-day life forms (such as chimpanzees) seem to have stayed as chimpanzees for quite a while now. In other words, as long as history is recorded by humans, insofar as I know.
Yes, chimps stay chimps. Humans stay humans. But humans are also apes. This should not be a hard concept to understand. You are also a mammal and a vertebrate. I am pretty sure that you do not deny that. Why deny the even more obvious fact that you are an ape?
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
:smile: This is starting to look comical to me. Confirmation bias written all over it, in big, bold letters.

Evidence for evolution

At the most basic level, all living organisms share:
  • The same genetic material (DNA)
  • The same, or highly similar, genetic codes
  • The same basic process of gene expression (transcription and translation)
  • The same molecular building blocks, such as amino acids
These shared features suggest that all living things are descended from a common ancestor, and that this ancestor had DNA as its genetic material, used the genetic code, and expressed its genes by transcription and translation. Present-day organisms all share these features because they were "inherited" from the ancestor (and because any big changes in this basic machinery would have broken the basic functionality of cells).
Saying, in the same paragraph, that those four conditions are required for life to exist, and that they are evidence of all living creatures having the same ancestor.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
:smile: This is starting to look comical to me. Confirmation bias written all over it, in big, bold letters.

Evidence for evolution


Saying, in the same paragraph, that those four conditions are required for life to exist, and that they are evidence of all living creatures having the same ancestor.
Why do you say that? Odds are that you do not understand the concept of scientific evidence. And where does it make the claim that you say it does? You may be projecting when it comes to your claim of confirmation bias.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Why do you say that? Odds are that you do not understand the concept of scientific evidence. And where does it make the claim that you say it does? You may be projecting when it comes to your claim of confirmation bias.
:smile: Yes, and maybe the moon is made of green cheese, and pigs could fly if they really wanted to.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
:smile: Yes, and maybe the moon is made of green cheese, and pigs could fly if they really wanted to.
This is your sin. Not that of scientists. As I said you need to review the scientific method and the concept of scientific evidence. I see that you were not able to substantiate your false claims about confirmation bias.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, chimps stay chimps. Humans stay humans. But humans are also apes. This should not be a hard concept to understand. You are also a mammal and a vertebrate. I am pretty sure that you do not deny that. Why deny the even more obvious fact that you are an ape?
There is a vast difference in the thinking, speaking and writing ability of apes vs. humans. And what is the reason, would you say, that chimps or humans are not evolving now? Chimps supposedly have been around a much longer time than present-day humans, yet still stay chimps. Why do you think that is so?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, chimps stay chimps. Humans stay humans. But humans are also apes. This should not be a hard concept to understand. You are also a mammal and a vertebrate. I am pretty sure that you do not deny that. Why deny the even more obvious fact that you are an ape?
Those are man's classifications. When I was in school, I was able to answer correctly according to the teaching at the time. And I had no real knowledge of the Bible so I believed everything they taught me about -- evolution. Even when the theory changed from one concept to another.
Glad you realize chimps stay chimps and humans stay humans. Yet no chimps showing any of them are evolving (unless, of course, they're in the jungle or zoo not yet discovered), or humans demonstrably evolving to another species or kind. No evidence of the sort.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, chimps stay chimps. Humans stay humans. But humans are also apes. This should not be a hard concept to understand. You are also a mammal and a vertebrate. I am pretty sure that you do not deny that. Why deny the even more obvious fact that you are an ape?
Speaking of which, why do you think chimps stay chimps and humans stay humans without continuing on the evolutionary climb (or change)? Chimps have ostensibly stayed chimps far longer than humans have been humans, haven't they?
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Are you saying that the idea of a common ancestor between a member of one species and a member of another species explains differences between them, better than not thinking that they have a common ancestor?
No, I'm saying that the understanding of common ancestry explains differences as well as similarities between taxa. For example, it explains why whales and sharks have very different anatomies for swimming and breathing, even though they both occupy the same environment. Another example is the anatomical differences between birds and bats.

How life first appears, and how evolution happens. For example, one similarity between species is that they contain carbon compounds. I don’t think that’s because they have a common ancestor. Do you? To me, a better explanation is that carbon compounds are required for life to happen.
Agreed.

Other similarities between species could also be explained as a result of how evolution happens. The reason for large animals all having a head and four limbs could be because that turned out to be better for survival than not having a head, or having more or less than four limbs, and not because they have a common ancestor.
Well it's interesting to see you say that, since the paper you just vaguely criticized takes that into account (that's what they mean by "functional constraints"). Yet even with that covered, they still demonstrate that common ancestry is far and away the best explanation for the data.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
So where exactly in that paper do you see "a desperate search for evidence for a foregone conclusion, and to find ways to plug holes in a sinking ship"?
While there is no doubt among evolutionary biologists that all living species, or merely all living species within a particular group (e.g., animals), share descent from a common ancestor, formal statistical methods for evaluating common ancestry from aligned DNA sequence data have received criticism ... We present a new statistical framework to test separate ancestry versus common ancestry that avoids this pitfall.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Speaking of which, why do you think chimps stay chimps and humans stay humans without continuing on the evolutionary climb (or change)? Chimps have ostensibly stayed chimps far longer than humans have been humans, haven't they?
What? I never said that either had stopped evolving.

There is no "change of kinds" in evolution. That is a creationist misunderstanding at best. Tell me are you still a vertebrate?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
While there is no doubt among evolutionary biologists that all living species, or merely all living species within a particular group (e.g., animals), share descent from a common ancestor, formal statistical methods for evaluating common ancestry from aligned DNA sequence data have received criticism ... We present a new statistical framework to test separate ancestry versus common ancestry that avoids this pitfall.
Right, they avoided a possible error, the one you apparently edited out of your response.

What is wrong with that?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
What? I never said that either had stopped evolving.

There is no "change of kinds" in evolution. That is a creationist misunderstanding at best. Tell me are you still a vertebrate?
I didn't say you said either chimps or humans have stopped evolving. Is there any evidence that chimps or humans are evolving? Start with chimps, please, they're ostensibly older in species than humans, so have a longer time perhaps to evolve. Is there any evidence chimps are evolving?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Those are man's classifications. When I was in school, I was able to answer correctly according to the teaching at the time. And I had no real knowledge of the Bible so I believed everything they taught me about -- evolution. Even when the theory changed from one concept to another.
Glad you realize chimps stay chimps and humans stay humans. Yet no chimps showing any of them are evolving (unless, of course, they're in the jungle or zoo not yet discovered), or humans demonstrably evolving to another species or kind. No evidence of the sort.
Classifications have changed since we have a better understanding today. Many people do not like the fact that they are apes.


And why do you keep repeating errors that you were corrected about?
 
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