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Scientific Evidence for Universal Common Descent

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ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Then make that case. Merely alluding to 'all this evidence!', is not evidence. It is bluff.

I linked the wiki article which is as good a place to start as any. Or you could try Evolution 101, or even just google for it. The evidence isn't a secret and it's accepted almost universally by those people who study the relevant fields.

If you think there is some mass hallucination, conspiracy, or that most of the scientists are stupid - or if you think there is some fundamental flaw in all the evidence, it's up to you to make the case.

Here is some specific evidence (mostly about humans and other great apes but also common descent in general) - perhaps you can go through it in detail and point out the circularity?

Genesis and the Genome (pdf).

Observable reality over millennia. Dogs always produce dogs. Chimps oroduce chimps. Humans produce humans.. ALWAYS. EVERY TIME. there is no observable, testable scientific evidence that macro evolution CAN happen, much less did happen. It is a belief.

Seriously? I asked you for the mechanism that would limit changes. What stops micro becoming macro over time?

So you believe. So you assert.
Got any evidence for this belief?

Again - the mechanism for random mutation and natural selection isn't a secret - if you think almost all the experts have it wrong, make the case.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'll repeat what i said earlier:
I'm sorry to have to do this, and it is not a positive for understanding and open communication, but a person can only take so much abuse. I can only adapt, with the tools at my disposal, and ignoring the more hostile posters is a last resort.

These are ignored:
tas8831
Dan From Smithville
Subduction Zone

If any would like a reset, and attempt to reopen communication, ask another member to help. I am always ready to start anew, with a clean slate. I don't hold grudges, and i don't take the heckling seriously. It is a tactic for disruption, and is at enmity with knowledge. I understand that many people are 'triggered' by any criticism or examination of common descent, and i cut people some slack, because of the thorough, widespread indoctrination of this religious belief. But there are limits to my patience, and these have reached it.
Welcome to the club @Dan From Smithville and @TagliatelliMonster!

To the OP: It appears that you can dish it out but cannot take it.

The problem is that you will not debate properly. From the start you demonstrated that you do not even understand the concept of scientific evidence and you appear to be afraid to learn since you seem to realize that you would have to admit that there is endless evidence for evolution.

You want to harass and bully people and cry foul when others will not stand for that.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
I'm just going to focus on two points because they are the crucial ones here.
And this is the fundamental place where you are getting things wrong. A mutation is simply a change in a gene: a change in the DNA that makes up the gene. We know of several mechanisms for producing such changes, from chemical, to radiation, to duplication, etc.

There is a mechanism in the cell for finding and correcting such changes, but that mechanism is very far from being perfect and changes do make it through.

The point is that not all mutations (changes in genes) are deleterious. And whether they are beneficial or deleterious is a matter of the environment they are exposed to NOT simply the nature of the mutation itself. So your description in 5 is faulty.

In fact, many changes in the DNA (the genes, in other words, mutations) have no effect or minimal effect. They can change the DNA code for one amino acid to the code for a similar one which does not affect the properties of the resulting protein. This is very, very common.

Second, a duplication of a gene is a type of mutation. And this can have beneficial or deleterious (or no) effects depending on the environment. Often, a duplicated gene means that more of the protein is produced that the gene codes for. Sometimes that is a good thing: the body can use more of it. Sometimes it is a bad thing: having too much can be bad. And sometimes it is neutral.

But, the fact that the gene has been duplicated means that *subsequent* changes (in later generations) are less likely to be deleterious because the original gene is still there and working. And *that* means there is now an increase of genetic information. This provides an increase of diversity.

Duplication and subsequent change is a very powerful method for producing new genetic information. And such changes happen in every individual in every generation. We *know* that each person has around 1-200 mutations (changes) that make their genes differ from either parent. This is a source for more diversity that you have not addressed.

So, to sum up:

1. Mutations *are* a source for diversity. Not all mutations are deleterious, contrary to your claims.

2. We know mutations happen in every generation and in every individual. So the genes of the parents *are not* the only ones available, contrary to your claims.

3. We have many mechanisms for new mutations being produced, contrary to your claims.

4. Having such beneficial or neutral mutations increases diversity since there are more variants of a particular gene. This is also contrary to your claims.

5. Not everybody has the same genes. And the genes for chimps overlap the genes for humans. So the genes are NOT 'completely different', contrary to your claims.

6. Genes do provide evidence for ancestry and decent. In particular, similarities between genes of different species can provide evidence of relatedness. This is contrary to your claims.

7. When the methods used to discover Mitochondrial Eve are used for large populations including other primates, we find a larger descent tree showing humans derived from other primates. If you don't like the primate descent trees, then you have to reject Mitochindrial Eve to be consistent.
..thanks again for the civil, rational reply.

The biggest assumption/flaw i see here is EQUATING 'mutation' as a creative force. It is not. It is mostly deleterious, and often fatal, to any organism, though it sometimes neutral, or survivable. This does not equate, 'new traits!' The analogy of wrecking your car is appropriate. The car may still be driveable, depending on the severity if the crash, but it does not add horsepower, leather seats, or chrome wheels.

I will repeat the challenge:

Show me.

I know many BELIEVE that mutation is the engine for macro evolution, but there is no evidence for that belief. It is only minimally involved in micro evolution, or simple variability.

Do you have any EVIDENCE, for this belief in mutation as a creative force for increasing complexity?

Bacteria adapting to digest citrates is not a 'beneficial mutation'. It is not even clear that mutation had anything to do with the e.coli adaptation.

Canids branching out in diversity, over the last 200 years, is not explained by mutation. The variety was already there, in the parent stock, as the time needed for mutation was insufficient.

Humans have measured the mutation rate of mtDNA. It is called the 'mitochondrial clock', and has been measured in known descendants to be ~ 1 mutation every 800 years. These are the survivable mutations that were not repaired, and were passed down.

NONE of them have ever 'created' new traits. They do not make you run faster, leap higher, alter the weather, or read other people's minds.

The burden of proof is on those to DEMONSTRATE, via sound scientific methodology, that 'mutation' can create genes, chromosomes, traits, or structural changes to the genome. Merely pointing to visible mutations in a cell, and extrapolating that to common ancestry, is a false equivalence. ..an UNEVIDENCED false equivalence.

Show me one experiment where a mutation "caused" an increase of complexity, added a trait that was not already there, or any indication that mutation can do the things you believe. Merely asserting it repeatedly does not evidence the claim.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
..thanks again for the civil, rational reply.

The biggest assumption/flaw i see here is EQUATING 'mutation' as a creative force. It is not. It is mostly deleterious, and often fatal, to any organism, though it sometimes neutral, or survivable. This does not equate, 'new traits!' The analogy of wrecking your car is appropriate. The car may still be driveable, depending on the severity if the crash, but it does not add horsepower, leather seats, or chrome wheels.

I will repeat the challenge:

Show me.

I know many BELIEVE that mutation is the engine for macro evolution, but there is no evidence for that belief. It is only minimally involved in micro evolution, or simple variability.

Do you have any EVIDENCE, for this belief in mutation as a creative force for increasing complexity?

Bacteria adapting to digest citrates is not a 'beneficial mutation'. It is not even clear that mutation had anything to do with the e.coli adaptation.

Canids branching out in diversity, over the last 200 years, is not explained by mutation. The variety was already there, in the parent stock, as the time needed for mutation was insufficient.

Humans have measured the mutation rate of mtDNA. It is called the 'mitochondrial clock', and has been measured in known descendants to be ~ 1 mutation every 800 years. These are the survivable mutations that were not repaired, and were passed down.

NONE of them have ever 'created' new traits. They do not make you run faster, leap higher, alter the weather, or read other people's minds.

The burden of proof is on those to DEMONSTRATE, via sound scientific methodology, that 'mutation' can create genes, chromosomes, traits, or structural changes to the genome. Merely pointing to visible mutations in a cell, and extrapolating that to common ancestry, is a false equivalence. ..an UNEVIDENCED false equivalence.

Show me one experiment where a mutation "caused" an increase of complexity, added a trait that was not already there, or any indication that mutation can do the things you believe. Merely asserting it repeatedly does not evidence the claim.
Once again when you do not understand the concept of evidence you are in no position to make demands for evidence. Especially when one has a history of denial.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
1. Mutations *are* a source for diversity. Not all mutations are deleterious, contrary to your claims.

2. We know mutations happen in every generation and in every individual. So the genes of the parents *are not* the only ones available, contrary to your claims.

3. We have many mechanisms for new mutations being produced, contrary to your claims.

4. Having such beneficial or neutral mutations increases diversity since there are more variants of a particular gene. This is also contrary to your claims.

5. Not everybody has the same genes. And the genes for chimps overlap the genes for humans. So the genes are NOT 'completely different', contrary to your claims.

6. Genes do provide evidence for ancestry and decent. In particular, similarities between genes of different species can provide evidence of relatedness. This is contrary to your claims.

7. When the methods used to discover Mitochondrial Eve are used for large populations including other primates, we find a larger descent tree showing humans derived from other primates. If you don't like the primate descent trees, then you have to reject Mitochindrial Eve to be consistent.
1. Do not falsely attribute 'claims' from me that i did not make.
2. Evidence this assertion. The only known source of genetic material and traits are from the parent stock. If you believe there are other sources, you will need to support that claim.
3. So you believe. So you assert.
4. This is believed, only. Show 'new traits!', that have been demonstrated to be from mutation, not just assumed.
5. Prove your claim. Show the common genes between chimps and humans.. not common FUNCTIONALITY, but interchangeable, exact matches. Otherwise, i dismiss your assertions, without evidence.
6. Asserting this is not evidence. HOW do 'genes' show this?
'We all have genes, therefore, evolution!' ?
7. This is vague and unclear. If i don't see evidence for primate common ancestry, i have to discount the ACTUAL evidence for human ancestry? How does this follow? You have yet to demonstrate YOUR claim that "mtDNA proves primate common ancestry'. You've asserted this, as have others, but there is no science behind it. A statistical computer model, based on the assumption of ancestry, is not evidence of descent, like the mtDNA.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Welcome to the club @Dan From Smithville and @TagliatelliMonster!

To the OP: It appears that you can dish it out but cannot take it.

The problem is that you will not debate properly. From the start you demonstrated that you do not even understand the concept of scientific evidence and you appear to be afraid to learn since you seem to realize that you would have to admit that there is endless evidence for evolution.

You want to harass and bully people and cry foul when others will not stand for that.

Did I miss an earlier post where he mentioned that I was "banned" as well? :)

Honestly, I don't think I would notice the difference.
He's been ignoring the points raised since day 1 anyway.
If he responded, it was to falsely complain about heckling and personal attacks.

Although the heckling part could be correct, if it is understood like in a comedy show, where the stand-up's routine is spoiled by someone in the audience who interrupts the show.
In that sense, sure, I guess you could call it "heckling" when a creationist's "show" or "routine" is being interrupted by folks with some basic science education, making a few valid points resulting in a complete collapse of the creationist case.............


:)
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
..thanks again for the civil, rational reply.

The biggest assumption/flaw i see here is EQUATING 'mutation' as a creative force. It is not. It is mostly deleterious, and often fatal, to any organism, though it sometimes neutral, or survivable. This does not equate, 'new traits!' The analogy of wrecking your car is appropriate. The car may still be driveable, depending on the severity if the crash, but it does not add horsepower, leather seats, or chrome wheels.

And those changes that are 'neutral or survivable', don't they represent an increase of diversity? There are more variants after than there were before.

I will repeat the challenge:

Show me.

I know many BELIEVE that mutation is the engine for macro evolution, but there is no evidence for that belief. It is only minimally involved in micro evolution, or simple variability.

Do you have any EVIDENCE, for this belief in mutation as a creative force for increasing complexity?

Plenty. We *know* that gene duplication happens. That alone is a mutation and can often be beneficial.

Then, the now different genes can change independently of each other. That means there are now two genes where there was one and two products where there was one. That is an increase of diversity *and complexity*.

Bacteria adapting to digest citrates is not a 'beneficial mutation'. It is not even clear that mutation had anything to do with the e.coli adaptation.

How is that NOT a beneficial mutation when the environment has citrate as a potential energy source? Once again, whether a change is beneficial or deterimental is determined by the environment, NOT the gene itself.

As another example, the mutation for sickle-cell anemia is *beneficial* in areas where malaria is common. The net result of the mutation is an increase of survival. That is what it *means* to be beneficial.

Canids branching out in diversity, over the last 200 years, is not explained by mutation. The variety was already there, in the parent stock, as the time needed for mutation was insufficient.

You keep claiming the variety (as opposed to the potential variety) was already there, but have given no evidence for this claim. Furthermore, I claim it is a silly claim: there is no way the original canid genmone could have had all the variants we see today in dogs.

Humans have measured the mutation rate of mtDNA. It is called the 'mitochondrial clock', and has been measured in known descendants to be ~ 1 mutation every 800 years. These are the survivable mutations that were not repaired, and were passed down.

NONE of them have ever 'created' new traits. They do not make you run faster, leap higher, alter the weather, or read other people's minds.

Well, the changes in the mtDNA would not be *expected* to produce such trais, now would they? They would be epected to produce traits for the mitochondria, which are primarily energy factories. So, we would expect to see differences in ATP production.

The burden of proof is on those to DEMONSTRATE, via sound scientific methodology, that 'mutation' can create genes, chromosomes, traits, or structural changes to the genome. Merely pointing to visible mutations in a cell, and extrapolating that to common ancestry, is a false equivalence. ..an UNEVIDENCED false equivalence.

Show me one experiment where a mutation "caused" an increase of complexity, added a trait that was not already there, or any indication that mutation can do the things you believe. Merely asserting it repeatedly does not evidence the claim.

OK. Latent Developmental Potential to Form Limb-Like Skeletal Structures in Zebrafish by Michael Brent Hawkins, Katrin Henke, Matthew Harris :: SSRN

A single, point mutation produced new limb bones along with the articulations. Neither parent had such bones. They don't appear in any ancestor. But a single mutation allows for them to form.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
Did I miss an earlier post where he mentioned that I was "banned" as well? :)

Honestly, I don't think I would notice the difference.
He's been ignoring the points raised since day 1 anyway.
If he responded, it was to falsely complain about heckling and personal attacks.

Although the heckling part could be correct, if it is understood like in a comedy show, where the stand-up's routine is spoiled by someone in the audience who interrupts the show.
In that sense, sure, I guess you could call it "heckling" when a creationist's "show" or "routine" is being interrupted by folks with some basic science education, making a few valid points resulting in a complete collapse of the creationist case.............


:)
I've only 'put on ignore', the worst hecklers.. if you want to be included with your comrades, you'll have to up your game. ;)

If you'd like to debate the topic, i am game, but the rule of civility and reason still applies.. you seem to prefer to join with the hecklers.. the mob mentality is hard to resist..
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Did I miss an earlier post where he mentioned that I was "banned" as well? :)

Honestly, I don't think I would notice the difference.
He's been ignoring the points raised since day 1 anyway.
If he responded, it was to falsely complain about heckling and personal attacks.

Although the heckling part could be correct, if it is understood like in a comedy show, where the stand-up's routine is spoiled by someone in the audience who interrupts the show.
In that sense, sure, I guess you could call it "heckling" when a creationist's "show" or "routine" is being interrupted by folks with some basic science education, making a few valid points resulting in a complete collapse of the creationist case.............


:)
Oops, my mistake. Laying bed with my tablet makes for inaccurate posting at times it was @tas8831 . Sorry to both of you.

But you can't be far behind. Just watch your step buddy!:mad:
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I've only 'put on ignore', the worst hecklers.. if you want to be included with your comrades, you'll have to up your game. ;)

If you'd like to debate the topic, i am game, but the rule of civility and reason still applies.. you seem to prefer to join with the hecklers.. the mob mentality is hard to resist..

Once again since you can't seem to follow your own rules. That makes your posts look rather hypocritical.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
1. Do not falsely attribute 'claims' from me that i did not make.
2. Evidence this assertion. The only known source of genetic material and traits are from the parent stock. If you believe there are other sources, you will need to support that claim.

OK. Variation in genome-wide mutation rates within and between human families

3. So you believe. So you assert.

Yes, I assert that duplication and mutation increases the range of genes available in a population. Is that not obvious?

4. This is believed, only. Show 'new traits!', that have been demonstrated to be from mutation, not just assumed.
5. Prove your claim. Show the common genes between chimps and humans.. not common FUNCTIONALITY, but interchangeable, exact matches. Otherwise, i dismiss your assertions, without evidence.

From the study that sequenced the chimp genome about 30% of the genes are exactly the same between humans and chimps. Not just functionally the same, but *identical*.

6. Asserting this is not evidence. HOW do 'genes' show this?
'We all have genes, therefore, evolution!' ?

No, it is the pattern of differences in the genes that can show descent.

7. This is vague and unclear. If i don't see evidence for primate common ancestry, i have to discount the ACTUAL evidence for human ancestry? How does this follow? You have yet to demonstrate YOUR claim that "mtDNA proves primate common ancestry'. You've asserted this, as have others, but there is no science behind it. A statistical computer model, based on the assumption of ancestry, is not evidence of descent, like the mtDNA.

The exact same techniques that were used to prove the existence of mitochondrial Eve (and hence the common ancestry of all humans) can be applied to look at ALL primate mitochondrial DNA. When that is done, we deduce *by the exact same reasoning* that all primates are related.

Either you reject the reasoning for mtEve *or* you reject common descent of primates *or* you are being inconsistent.

Yes, of course using a statistical model *and the actual data from the genomes* can be used to determine whether common descent or separate ancestry is more likely given the data. BOTH options are explored and BOTH options evaluated. And then common descent is found to be *far* more likely. How is that NOT evidence of common descent? Just because a computer is used to process the data?
 
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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
The biggest assumption/flaw i see here is EQUATING 'mutation' as a creative force. It is not. It is mostly deleterious, and often fatal, to any organism, though it sometimes neutral, or survivable.

As a matter of fact, the majority of mutations are neutral.
And some are beneficial (with respect to fitness). As is demonstrated in the e-coli experiment, where 2 subsequent mutations resulted in a population having access to a completely new food source, resulting in a population explosion.

The evolutionary process does not, at all, require the majority of mutations to being beneficial in order to work. At all.

This does not equate, 'new traits!' The analogy of wrecking your car is appropriate. The car may still be driveable, depending on the severity if the crash, but it does not add horsepower, leather seats, or chrome wheels.

That analogy makes no sense because cars (or wrecks) aren't biological organisms that reproduce with variation and which are in competition with peers over limited resources.

It literally lacks all the necessary components to be a valid analogy the evolutionary process.

I will repeat the challenge:

Show me.

I know many BELIEVE that mutation is the engine for macro evolution, but there is no evidence for that belief. It is only minimally involved in micro evolution, or simple variability.

This leads me to believe that you don't understand the difference between macro evolution and micro evolution. Since you speak of them as if they are 2 different processes. As if there are mutations that happen in context of "micro evolution" and then other mutations that happen in context of "macro evolution".

It doesn't work like that at all.
Macro evolution is no more or less then the accumulation of micro evolution through the generations. That's it.

It's like running a marathon vs running 10 miles.
There are no different processes involved. It's just running. Right, left, right, left, right, left,....
Do that for a while and you'll run 10 miles.
Do that for a longer while and you'll run a marathon.


The engine of evolution is the accumulation of micro-changes over generations. That's also what makes the entire process gradual.

It actually necessarily has to happen that way... For survival reasons, the change from one generation to the next must necessarily be very small. Otherwise it will give problems with reproduction. And to big a change in one go will also almost certainly be fatal or at least very harmful one way or the other.


But the crux of it all, is this: macro evolution is the inevitable result of continued micro evolution, unless extinction occurs.

Just like running a marathon is the inevitable result of continued "running", unless you stop running.

Do you have any EVIDENCE, for this belief in mutation as a creative force for increasing complexity?

Yes. The genetic record.
The idea that the accumulation of mutations is what resulted in all the diversity of species, makes a buttload of scientific testable predictions about what we should and shouldn't find in the genetic record, in comparative anatomy, comparative genetics,... even in geographic distribution of species.

And all the evidence fits like a glove, with nothing to seriously contradict it.

Bacteria adapting to digest citrates is not a 'beneficial mutation'.

Yes it is. It's very beneficial to the bacteria.
The population size exploded afterwards. This means that thanks to that mutation it was able to thrive more then its cousin populations. I'ld call that pretty beneficial.........................

It is not even clear that mutation had anything to do with the e.coli adaptation.

Yes it is.
The mutations in question have even been identified

Chromosomal mutation for citrate utilization by Escherichia coli K-12.

Citrate utilization arose as the consequence of two mutations in genes citA and citB

Canids branching out in diversity, over the last 200 years, is not explained by mutation.

It's explained by artificial selection.
However, there needs to be something "to select"... and that something is the variation introduced in every new generation.


The variety was already there, in the parent stock, as the time needed for mutation was insufficient.
No, sorry... no poodles or chiuwawa's are "hiding" in wolf DNA. That's not how it works.
There's more then enough time for mutations to occur. They occur, after all, in every newborn.

The reason why canid diversification was so rapid, is not because of mutation rates, but because of the seleciton process used.

A chiuwawa would not naturally evolve, nore would any of its unique traits be selected for in the wild. MANY of the dog breeds we have today wouldn't surive in the wild at all. Heck, there are even dogs that are so far along that they are even completely unable to reproduce naturally....


You overestimate the role of random mutations and seriously understimate the role of the selection process, it seems to me.


The burden of proof is on those to DEMONSTRATE, via sound scientific methodology, that 'mutation' can create genes, chromosomes, traits, or structural changes to the genome

And that has been done, as so many people have told you (with citations) in this thread already. I know, because I read those posts (and actually learned a thing or two from them as well). Off course, if you don't read those posts properly and instead just reply to them while yelling "AD HOM", you might likely miss the interesting contents...............


. Merely pointing to visible mutations in a cell, and extrapolating that to common ancestry, is a false equivalence. ..an UNEVIDENCED false equivalence.

That would indeed be a false equivalence. But that's not at all what evolutionary biologists, paleontologists and geneticists do....

Show me one experiment where a mutation "caused" an increase of complexity, added a trait that was not already there, or any indication that mutation can do the things you believe.

Already have. You handwaved it away.

Merely asserting it repeatedly does not evidence the claim.

And just handwaving the evidence away, will not make it disappear.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
The only explanation I've ever seen from any creationist on these sorts of results basically amounts to a conspiracy theory....something like "Of course evolutionists get results that support evolution...that's what the whole process is set up to do!"

Of course most creationists just ignore the results completely. Much safer that way.
I've heard that, too.
When I do, I like to mention the creationist Baraminology group, and how they use the same types of data, same programs, etc.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Oh, yes. The models are actually quite detailed at this point. A quick google scholar search will give some amazing information about neutrinos.



Once again, yes, quite a few. Again google scholar is quite nice.


Mostly concerning the release of aerosols, but yes.



Funny, for some reason that one seems to be missing. I wonder why?
I get the distinct feeling, however, that when Jim wrote "simulate", he meant "replicate."
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
As some scientists have bravely and aptly pointed out, despite commonly held teachings of other scientists, there is no absolute and final evidence that evolution in the sense of difference of organisms yet evolving such as birds and dinosaurs are true. Since that is unequivocally true, there is no reason to not believe that God used elements he created to make substantial beings with similar elements.
So sort of a false dichotomy, then? And you find that appealing and logical?
And since Christianity is not been shown to be 100% true, Hinduism is the one true religion, yes?
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
1. I'm obviously vilified here for challenging the belief in common ancestry.

No, you are "vilified" for being ignorant of the science you claim to have debated and studied for 40 years.

You are 'vilified' for engaging in the very behavior that you accuse others of as a way of avoiding having to admit your spectacular ignorance.

You are vilified for your documentable dishonesty/attempts at revisionism, like how you pretended, after you'd been caught, to know that "Eve gene" was just a simpleton's term for mtGenome:

By date, oldest first:


Scientific Evidence for Universal Common Descent

Let's look at some facts:
The mtDNA, carries a flag in it
from mother to daughter. It has ironically been called the 'Eve' gene. Males don't have it, but all women do.


Scientific Evidence for Universal Common Descent

Here is a decent summary about mtDNA, and the 'Eve gene'.. the flag that indicates direct descendancy.


Scientific Evidence for Universal Common Descent

We now know that all living humans have the same ancestral mother.. the Mitochondrial Most Recent Common Ancestor. ..aka, mitochondrial Eve, or also called the 'eve gene'.


Yup....

"Eve gene" had totally nothing at all to do with your points or your claims, just a term that popped up by accident or whatever excuse you will give...

Funny how your latest use actually implies that "Eve gene" is just mtDNA - you wrote that just today, well after I and others proved that it is stupid to claim that there is a thing called "Eve gene" that is a - how did you describe it initially? Ah yes:

"The mtDNA, carries a flag in it from mother to daughter. It has ironically been called the 'Eve' gene."


You also claimed initially that:


"Males don't have it, but all women do."

Which you are now denying, crazily. I mean - it is like you don;t think we can actually look at your earlier posts or something...

And now, realizing how bombastically ignorant you've been all along, you are trying to blame US for "misinterpreting" your naive, uninformed assertions.


DEAR CREATIONISTS - PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT PRETENDER CLAIMING 40 YEARS EXPERIENCE. HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT..
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Here's the LINK..

"We find overwhelming evidence against separate ancestry and in favor of common ancestry for orders and families of primates. We also find overwhelming evidence that humans share a common ancestor with other primate species."

Looks like you sought a paper that you could dismiss because it is a statistical re-asessment of other papers and such.

Precious how the great pretender keeps ignoring this paper - using the "Eve gene' to show the relatedness of all primates:




A Mitogenomic Phylogeny of Living Primates
July 16, 2013

From the results and discussion:

We produced complete mt genome sequences from 32 primate individuals. From each individual, we obtained an average of 1508 tagged reads with an average length of 235 bp, yielding approximately 356 kb of sequence data corresponding to 21-fold coverage. All newly sequenced mt genomes had lengths typical for primates (16,280–16,936 bp; Table S1), but the GC-content varied largely among taxa (37.78–46.32%, Table S2, Figure S1). All newly generated mt genomes consisted of 22 tRNA genes, 2 rRNA genes, 13 protein-coding genes and the control region in the order typical for mammals. By combining the 32 newly generated data with 51 additional primate mt genomes, the dataset represents all 16 primate families, 57 of the 78 recognized genera and 78 of the 480 currently recognized species [31].​


They used 81 complete mitochondrial genomes from primates representing all 16 families. The descriptions of the genomic content represent all of the markers that one could hope for. The use of these markers allow for the tracing of the ancestry of all of the primate taxa used, as shown in this phylogenetic tree, and such trees are produced as the output of a rigorous analysis - the same sort employed in the Canid paper.

37162_9879ac238e088d8a54e27bcfb0f0fd88.png


Note that this includes humans, Neanderthals, etc. This phylogenetic tree incorporates the tracing of mtDNA snps and other such markers. The shared ancestry of all Primates is thus proven.

The type of data used and the means of analysis employed have been BY YOU, so there is no denying the shared ancestry of human, chimps and other primates.


Almost as if you are afraid to deal with it. Afraid of having your ignorance exposed some more, I'd guess.
 
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