Scientific Evidence for Universal Common Descent

[Dan From Smithville]

So again, going back to the Recapitulation theory, when it was taught as truth it wasn't really the whole truth and nothing but? Also, now that I'm looking at it, school children were taught as if it were beyond doubt that Pluto was a planet, now they are not. Realizing that 'things' change (not calling them facts or truth), clearly what has been taught as true and sure may not be really true and sure.

How old are you? Roughly? You don't have to give anything away.

The mineral composition of the human body is a fact. It varies around established parameters, but it is objective information. There is a difference between facts and the conclusions about those facts. Recapitulation was based on observations, facts, and was an attempt to explain those facts.

Many people are under the mistaken impression that public education in the United States is homogenous and the education is the same whether received in Washington, Montana, Missouri, Ohio or Florida. This is incorrect. I cannot say that some curriculum somewhere in this country in fairly recent memory did not include the teaching of Recapitulation theory as you claim. But I find that difficult to believe outside of teaching it as part of the history of biology. Of course, you may not be from this country. I have not looked to see if that information is available.

 

[Jim]

@Jose Fly @Dan From Smithville I’ve decided not to respond any more to personal questions and comments about me, except maybe sometimes to point out false statements about what I’m thinking. I’ll post links later to where I’ve discussed what I’m doing in these forums and why.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

@Jose Fly @Dan From Smithville I’ve decided not to respond any more to personal questions and comments about me, except maybe sometimes to point out false statements about what I’m thinking. I’ll post links later to where I’ve discussed what I’m doing in these forums and why.

That is OK. Though the comments reflect an effort to try and understand what you were doing. Reciting an interpretation of events as I saw them was not a personal attack, if that is what you are implying. Even if I was incorrect in that interpretation. It certainly was not offered as a personal affront. As to other personal questions, I do not recall having made any. I know relatively little about you for that matter. I would say that most of my questions have centered around points you brought up or questions to learn more.

Does this mean that you are not going to supply the links you have mentioned?

Edit: Disregard the last question. I see that you are going to provide the links. Thank you.

 

[Jim]

So again, going back to the Recapitulation theory, when it was taught as truth it wasn't really the whole truth and nothing but? Also, now that I'm looking at it, school children were taught as if it were beyond doubt that Pluto was a planet, now they are not. Realizing that 'things' change (not calling them facts or truth), clearly what has been taught as true and sure may not be really true and sure.

Don’t you remember your teachers saying that a larger number can’t be subtracted from a smaller number? And later, that there is no square root of a negative number?

 

[Jim]

Though the comments reflect an effort to try and understand what you were doing. Reciting an interpretation of events as I saw them was not a personal attack, if that is what you are implying. Even if I was incorrect in that interpretation. It certainly was not offered as a personal affront. As to other personal questions, I do not recall having made any. I know relatively little about you for that matter. I would say that most of my questions have centered around points you brought up or questions to learn more.

Okay. That makes sense to me. Maybe you don’t think that I’ve lied about what I was thinking. Maybe there’s some better explanation for you persisting in saying things about what I’m thinking, that I’ve explicitly and repeatedly denied.

 

[Jim]

@Dan From Smithville @Jose Fly Here’s a link to a post about what I’ve been doing here and why.

Jim’s views and goals

 

[usfan]

A good rule of thumb is that if multiple people are telling you the same thing, there's probably some truth to it.

A better rule of thumb, is that groupthink loyalty speaks louder than reason.

Echo chambers of homogeneous belief is no indication of truth. Science and Reason are better tools of inquiry than hordes of bobbleheads nodding in unison.

 

[usfan]

I’ve learned from experience that it’s worse than useless to try to communicate with anyone who thinks that I’m lying about what I’m thinking.

Once the focus gets on the hominid, the topic is forgotten. That is why ad hominem is effective as a fallacy. It deflects from reason, and disrupts any rational discussion.

False accusations, poisoning the well, and all manner of ad hominem replies seem to be favorite tactics of the True Believers in common descent. Science? ..not so much.. it is ironic, since they claim the mantle of 'Science and Reason!', but it is only pseudo science, and fake reason. The root of communication and education among progressive indoctrinees is fallacy. This thread has innumerable examples of this phenomenon.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Once the focus gets on the hominid, the topic is forgotten. That is why ad hominem is effective as a fallacy. It deflects from reason, and disrupts any rational discussion.

False accusations, poisoning the well, and all manner of ad hominem replies seem to be favorite tactics of the True Believers in common descent. Science? ..not so much.. it is ironic, since they claim the mantle of 'Science and Reason!', but it is only pseudo science, and fake reason. The root of communication and education among progressive indoctrinees is fallacy. This thread has innumerable examples of this phenomenon.

Please, don't lie. No one opposing you has used an ad hominem fallacy. As has been demonstrated many times, you do not even seem to understand the concept.

 

[Subduction Zone]

A better rule of thumb, is that groupthink loyalty speaks louder than reason.

Echo chambers of homogeneous belief is no indication of truth. Science and Reason are better tools of inquiry than hordes of bobbleheads nodding in unison.

Once again you make false statements that you cannot support. The only one that could be said to be guilty of being a "bobblehead" would be those that do not understand the concept of scientific evidence, such as you.

By the way, why are you afraid to even discuss the concept?

 

[usfan]

Can you be honest?

Once again, can you be honest?

Calling me a liar over and over will only get you on ignore. You do not even show how anything I've said is false, much less show deliberate deception. This is just an ad hom tactic of deflection, since you cannot debate the topic rationally.

Do you think people who believe the earth is flat should be thought of as "flat earthers"? Or people who think the holocaust didn't happen as "holocaust deniers"?

Smear by association.

I would put the common ancestry True Believers, in the position of the flat earthers, geocentrism, and other flawed 'theories', over the centuries. It would be better if you had compelling evidence, instead of relying on fallacies.

@Jose Fly @Dan From Smithville It looks to me like you’ve lost any interest in communicating with me that you might have had. I enjoyed it, or my illusion of it, while it lasted.

Welcome to the club. Once you question the sacred tenets of their faith, the jihadists waste no time attacking and demeaning any blasphemers.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Calling me a liar over and over will only get you on ignore. You do not even show how anything I've said is false, much less show deliberate deception. This is just an ad hom tactic of deflection, since you cannot debate the topic rationally.

No, you have been dishonest here countless times. And I have shown your claims to be false countless times beginning with your false claims of "we hom".

I challenged you because you have not debated properly. You are guilty of the wrongs that you try to falsely place upon others.

Smear by association.

I would put the common ancestry True Believers, in the position of the flat earthers, geocentrism, and other flawed 'theories', over the centuries. It would be better if you had compelling evidence, instead of relying on fallacies.

Welcome to the club. Once you question the sacred tenets of their faith, the jihadists waste no time attacking and demeaning any blasphemers.

Once again all false claims.

Can you debate without making false ad hominem claims?

And why are you afraid to learn what scientific evidence is in the first place?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Calling me a liar over and over will only get you on ignore. You do not even show how anything I've said is false, much less show deliberate deception. This is just an ad hom tactic of deflection, since you cannot debate the topic rationally.

No, you have been dishonest here countless times. And I have shown your claims to be false countless times beginning with your false claims of "we hom".

I challenged you because you have not debated properly. You are guilty of the wrongs that you try to falsely place upon others.

Smear by association.

I would put the common ancestry True Believers, in the position of the flat earthers, geocentrism, and other flawed 'theories', over the centuries. It would be better if you had compelling evidence, instead of relying on fallacies.

Welcome to the club. Once you question the sacred tenets of their faith, the jihadists waste no time attacking and demeaning any blasphemers.

Once again all false claims.

Can you debate without making false ad hominem claims?

And why are you afraid to learn what scientific evidence is in the first place?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The telomere arm is what the chromosome uses to hug the eve gene.

I didn't know chromosomes did the nasty with genes!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

This reaction of yours to what I said surprised and disappointed me.

I’m still grateful for all your help. Your responses to my questions and comments were the most helpful of all. @Polymath257 , you helped a lot too. Thanks.

Do you or do you not accept that theories of separate ancestry are a dead end, as the research suggests?

If you are open the possibility of alternative theories being explored, are you open to the possibility of alternative theories being subsequently falsified?

 

[usfan]

Simply untrue. There is no circular reasoning. For example, you could even ignore everything else and make the case from genetics alone.

Then make that case. Merely alluding to 'all this evidence!', is not evidence. It is bluff.

Where is your evidence for this? What is the mechanism that limits variation?

Observable reality over millennia. Dogs always produce dogs. Chimps oroduce chimps. Humans produce humans.. ALWAYS. EVERY TIME. there is no observable, testable scientific evidence that macro evolution CAN happen, much less did happen. It is a belief.

Those who claim that this phenomena is real are tasked with supporting it.

Simply untrue. Mutation plus natural selection provides new options for change.

So you believe. So you assert.

Simply untrue: mutation plus natural selection.

So you believe. So you assert.

But mutation plus natural selection is.

So you believe. So you assert.
Got any evidence for this belief?
The problem i see, over the years, is people ASSUME there is 'mountains of evidence!', for common ancestry. But when they actually try to produce it, they discover it is shrouded in techno babble, innuendo, assumptions, and conjecture. PLAUSIBILITY, not actual scientific evidence, is the only thing supporting this belief. It is not a scientifically supported theory. It is religious conjecture.

Simply untrue - there is no such reliance. This is a scientific theory.

this thread (and many others), proves otherwise. Only a very few can even 'debate' this topic with a modicum of civility. Most of the True Believers rely on heckling and fallacies.

Go back in this thread. I have addressed the science and arguments for this theory, but the detractors OVERWHELM the thread with mocking, ridicule, ad hom, and every fallacy in the book. Only a very few even try to debate the topic.

 

[usfan]

you have been dishonest here countless times.

Thanks for the discussion. Sorry to have to do this, but it is too distracting dealing with hecklers, when others are interested in reasoned debate.

Added to ignore:
Subduction Zone

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then make that case. Merely alluding to 'all this evidence!', is not evidence. It is bluff.

Observable reality over millennia. Dogs always produce dogs. Chimps oroduce chimps. Humans produce humans.. ALWAYS. EVERY TIME. there is no observable, testable scientific evidence that macro evolution CAN happen, much less did happen. It is a belief.

Those who claim that this phenomena is real are tasked with supporting it.

So you believe. So you assert.

So you believe. So you assert.
So you believe. So you assert.
Got any evidence for this belief?
The problem i see, over the years, is people ASSUME there is 'mountains of evidence!', for common ancestry. But when they actually try to produce it, they discover it is shrouded in techno babble, innuendo, assumptions, and conjecture. PLAUSIBILITY, not actual scientific evidence, is the only thing supporting this belief. It is not a scientifically supported theory. It is religious conjecture.
this thread (and many others), proves otherwise. Only a very few can even 'debate' this topic with a modicum of civility. Most of the True Believers rely on heckling and fallacies.

Go back in this thread. I have addressed the science and arguments for this theory, but the detractors OVERWHELM the thread with mocking, ridicule, ad hom, and every fallacy in the book. Only a very few even try to debate the topic.

You should learn what macro evolution is in the first place. Macro evolution is speciation and that has been observed countless times.

Also the theory of evolution predicts that "dogs will remain dogs". You are trying to argue a creationist strawman. You for example are still an ape.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thanks for the discussion. Sorry to have to do this, but it is too distracting dealing with hecklers, when others are interested in reasoned debate.

Added to ignore:
Subduction Zone

And he has to run away. You could not answer the hard questions. Heck, you could not answer the easy ones.

 

[usfan]

I'll repeat what i said earlier:
I'm sorry to have to do this, and it is not a positive for understanding and open communication, but a person can only take so much abuse. I can only adapt, with the tools at my disposal, and ignoring the more hostile posters is a last resort.

These are ignored:
tas8831
Dan From Smithville
Subduction Zone

If any would like a reset, and attempt to reopen communication, ask another member to help. I am always ready to start anew, with a clean slate. I don't hold grudges, and i don't take the heckling seriously. It is a tactic for disruption, and is at enmity with knowledge. I understand that many people are 'triggered' by any criticism or examination of common descent, and i cut people some slack, because of the thorough, widespread indoctrination of this religious belief. But there are limits to my patience, and these have reached it.