Scientific Evidence That Islam is the true religion

[kai]

well, u don't agree that the quran described the embryological stages with great accuracy
and that he mentioned the earth is round and not flat
and that the universe is expanding
and that the iron metal, was not originated on earth ( when no one could have imagined that, since iron represents a big percentage of the earth's core already)

u have all right not to agree
and when I said ( to those who have mind), I didn't mean to insult anyone

doesnt iron come from iron ore found in great quantities on earth,or do you mean some meteorites that contain a different kind of iron ,i am sure someone knows more about this than me

 

[JerryL]

Watch the video. I am talking about how certain stars look when looked at through certain telescopes. They measure whether a star is moving away or not.

Are you referring to red-shift? You do know that it does not mean that the star looks red right?

When light is produced, it exists in a spectrum. Certain elements create black bands in that spectrum (you can see this if you look at different light sources through a prizm). Since light moves in waves at a constant speed, movement of a light-generating body creates a doppler effect in the waveform. Since bands occur at specific wavelengths, we can use known bands in the spectrum to determine how much doppler effect is occuring and, thereby, the relative vector of a given body to us.

When an object is moving rapidly away (as most objects are) the bands move (shift) towards lower wavelengths (like red). This doesn't mean that the light will look red at all. In fact, it's quite possible for red-shift to push red into the infrared and ultraviolet into the blue making a star that actually is red appear a different color.

this is what i mean exactly there are many other scientific miracles contained which are exact in the meaning. For example in your knowledge where does the metal iron originate from.

The core of an exploding star, like all heavy elements.

Well, unless you made the iron in an atomic collider. Then it could originate in an atomic collider.

Of course, pretty much every atom heavier than hydrogen has its origin in a star. Iron isn't all that unusual there.

Care to quote the verse you have in mind?

well, u don't agree that the quran described the embryological stages with great accuracy

Wouldn't know as no one here has cited a verse. It would not, however, surprise me if the Quran does accurately describe stages visible to the naked eye.

and that he mentioned the earth is round and not flat

Again no verse, but again it would not be surprising. The Greeks had figured that out a couple melinnea earlier. Does that support Zeus?

and that the universe is expanding

Again no verse, though I suspect you are cherry-picking.

and that the iron metal, was not originated on earth ( when no one could have imagined that, since iron represents a big percentage of the earth's core already)

Again no verse, but would seem to disprove the Quran as no atoms originate on Earth; singling out one would indicate an ignorance to that fact.

 

[maro]

the verse of Iron
57:25

"we sent aforetime our messengers with clear signs and sent down with them the book and the balance ( of right and wrong) that men may stand forth in justice, and we sent down iron wherein is mighty power and ( many) uses for mankind, and that Allah may know him who helpth him and his messengers, though unseen . Lo! Allah is strong , Almighty "

earth is round
universe is expanding

www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com/BiblevsQuran.htm

*** I couldn't understand how the embryological stages where seen by the naked eye from 1400 years,
so it's easy for anyone to describe accurately

could u please explain that to me

 

[maro]

as u seem to care for verses so much Mr. jerryl

this verse came to my mind
5:25-26

"of them are some who listen unto thee , but we have thrown veils on their hearts ,so they understand it not ,and defness in their ears , if they saw every one of the signs , not they will believe in them , in so much that when they come to thee , they (but) dispute with thee , the unbelievers say " These are nothing but tales of the ancients (25)

and they prohibit (others) from it and go far from it , and they ruin non save themselves, though they percieve not (26) "

 

[JerryL]

"we sent aforetime our messengers with clear signs and sent down with them the book and the balance ( of right and wrong) that men may stand forth in justice, and we sent down iron wherein is mighty power and ( many) uses for mankind, and that Allah may know him who helpth him and his messengers, though unseen . Lo! Allah is strong , Almighty "

This sounds more like a "riddle of steel" passage than anything else; though certainly asserting this to be a claim that iron formed in a stellar explosion rather than post-terran-formation is stretching past breaking.

earth is round

Known for melennia

universe is expanding

Not what the passage says. Only appear in 20th century versions.

*** I couldn't understand how the embryological stages where seen by the naked eye from 1400 years, so it's easy for anyone to describe accurately

Nor have you put up the qurannic description for scrutiny.

BTW, they didn't get all the stages right. They believe babie start as a blood clot. I'd imagine this is from the stages too early to see with the naked eye.

could u please explain that to me

Anything you actually substantiate, yes.

 

[Ryan2065]

"we sent aforetime our messengers with clear signs and sent down with them the book and the balance ( of right and wrong) that men may stand forth in justice, and we sent down iron wherein is mighty power and ( many) uses for mankind, and that Allah may know him who helpth him and his messengers, though unseen . Lo! Allah is strong , Almighty "

So iron was sent down to the earth after humans were made? Isn't exactly how science explains it...

earth is round

wasn't exactly the first civilization to know this...
Also... the Quran doesn't always agree with the "round" statement...

051.048
YUSUFALI: And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!
PICKTHAL: And the earth have We laid out, how gracious is the Spreader (thereof)!
SHAKIR: And the earth, We have made it a wide extent; how well have We then spread (it) out.

When you create something round, you do not spread it out... This doesn't describe the making of something round... Actually it sure sounds like they are making something flat!

universe is expanding

Interesting... So the Quran clearly states that the universe is expanding... So why is it Muslim scholars were not yelling at science for finally agreeing with them when science said the universe is expanding? Or is it that the verse was only translated that way AFTER science discovered the universe is expanding?

 

[maro]

**iron was sent before humans were created (the original creation of earth)

**the arabic word (dahaha) is past verb, and its noun (dehya) means (egg shaped)

**the word (mose3oon) means (expanding), and I think it has no any other meaning in Arabic

and u can still check the translation of the verse by urself
not a big deal

 

[JerryL]

iron was sent before humans were created (the original creation of earth)

Look at your own quote:

we sent aforetime our messengers with clear signs and sent down with them the book and the balance ( of right and wrong) that men may stand forth in justice, and we sent down iron
​

The messengers were sent down with the book and iron. Are you asserting that the book was sent down before creation?

the arabic word (dahaha) is past verb, and its noun (dehya) means (egg shaped)

The Earth is not egg-shaped... spherical would have been closer (though still not completely correct). But as I've pointed out repeatedly, the Earth had been proven to be a globe melennia before the Quran was written.

the word (mose3oon) means (expanding), and I think it has no any other meaning in Arabic

That is one translation of the individual word, a translation which does get translated that way until the 20th century. That's the general test for reliability... does it tell you something "before" you test.

 

[maro]

*** the verse doesn't say messengers were sent with books and iron

messengers were sent with book and balance

*** actually, Earth is not an exact sphere
it doesn't have equal dimensions as a " sphere"


*** I couldn't get what u have said about the the translation of (mosee3oon)

but I think the translation of a single arabic word is not a topic of debate

because anyone could easily check the translation

 

[JerryL]

as u seem to care for verses so much Mr. jerryl

Just saw this. This seems very off-topic and rather directed at me rather than a post. Please avoid personal remarks.

the verse doesn't say messengers were sent with books and iron

The one passage, using what appears to be the same language, the Quran tells of sending a book and iron. You want to assert that there's reason to believe that the passage implies very different timeframes, you feel free to support that.

it doesn't have equal dimensions as a " sphere"

That is correct.

but I think the translation of a single arabic word is not a topic of debate

because anyone could easily check the translation

Whom are you quoting and to what are you responding?

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

So iron was sent down to the earth after humans were made? Isn't exactly how science explains it...

The verse implies that the iron is sent down to earth. Which is exactly what happens. Stars explode, debris travels through space. The debris lands here. Human find it and use it to create things.

wasn't exactly the first civilization to know this...
Also... the Quran doesn't always agree with the "round" statement...
When you create something round, you do not spread it out... This doesn't describe the making of something round... Actually it sure sounds like they are making something flat!

True, but Muhammed and his illiterate people had no knowledge of these past civilization. The arabs used to think the heavens were held up my the mountains.

Interesting... So the Quran clearly states that the universe is expanding... So why is it Muslim scholars were not yelling at science for finally agreeing with them when science said the universe is expanding? Or is it that the verse was only translated that way AFTER science discovered the universe is expanding?

I am not sure i follow you. Muslim scholars agree with scientists on this issue. This is established within the ulama. It is only if there is something science says that the Quran rejects.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Are you referring to red-shift? You do know that it does not mean that the star looks red right?

Yes, in reference to the support of some of the statements to the Quran. Earlier they were talking about the color of the Cat Nebula. Watch the video on Harun Yayha on Creation of Universe, and Miracles of Quran. Most of this I am sure you already know but it shows you how Islam agrees with what is known in the science world. The reason I stated it was because earlier i stated many people try to make more out of the verses then are there. And this could be an example. The color shift is another example on another subject ( in reference to the expansion of the universe.)

Care to quote the verse you have in mind?

someone mentioned it already. I have a really good book that a friend of mine is borrowing. I will get it for him and post the scientific stuff in it.

Again no verse, but again it would not be surprising. The Greeks had figured that out a couple melinnea earlier. Does that support Zeus?

The issue is not have people stated it before and even went and wrote them down. The question is if this is true. How did he get his information when everyone around him was completely ignorant of the idea. If i made a statement yet you never heard it. Would you know what was said.

Again no verse, but would seem to disprove the Quran as no atoms originate on Earth; singling out one would indicate an ignorance to that fact.

True but how would the messenger know that when it has been proven in the recent years. Now keep in mind the state of the world in terms of intelligence at the time of the Prophet Muhammed. Not just his people but the world as a whole. Even the majority of the masses in the roman provinces were illiterate.

 

[kai]

The verse implies that the iron is sent down to earth. Which is exactly what happens. Stars explode, debris travels through space. The debris lands here. Human find it and use it to create things

.i always thought this meant iron meteorites isnt there one in the ka'ba
..................

 

[Ryan2065]

The verse implies that the iron is sent down to earth. Which is exactly what happens. Stars explode, debris travels through space. The debris lands here. Human find it and use it to create things.

So we get iron when the iron lands here and we go and pick it up? I was under the impression most if not all of the iron we use was on the earth/in the earth before humans were created. We would not exactly be in good shape if iron was raining down on us...

True, but Muhammed and his illiterate people had no knowledge of these past civilization. The arabs used to think the heavens were held up my the mountains.

Right, but if a civilization found out the earth was round a thousand years before then god isn't exactly the only way they could have known the earth was round.

I am not sure i follow you. Muslim scholars agree with scientists on this issue. This is established within the ulama. It is only if there is something science says that the Quran rejects.

I was asking why wern't Muslim scholars telling scientists since the Quran was written that the universe is expanding? If the Quran clearly describes the universe expanding then the scholars should have known it was expanding before science did.

 

[JerryL]

Yes, in reference to the support of some of the statements to the Quran. Earlier they were talking about the color of the Cat Nebula. Watch the video on Harun Yayha on Creation of Universe, and Miracles of Quran. Most of this I am sure you already know but it shows you how Islam agrees with what is known in the science world. The reason I stated it was because earlier i stated many people try to make more out of the verses then are there. And this could be an example. The color shift is another example on another subject ( in reference to the expansion of the universe.)

You claim that the Quran says that the universe explodes in red.
The universe does not explode in red, it expoldes across the entire electromagnetc range.

So explain to me how the passage being wrong proves that it is right.

someone mentioned it already. I have a really good book that a friend of mine is borrowing. I will get it for him and post the scientific stuff in it.

I'll hold my breath while I wait.

The issue is not have people stated it before and even went and wrote them down. The question is if this is true. How did he get his information when everyone around him was completely ignorant of the idea.

The people around were not ignorant of the idea, therefore your question is reliant upon a false presupposition.

True but how would the messenger know that when it has been proven in the recent years.

He obviously did not know it. Much as the Greeks proclaimed fire a gift from the Gods, so Muhammed proclaimed iron a gift from the Gods.

This could have simply ben done because of the importance of iron. It's also possible that someone somewhere had tracked down a meteorite and started the legend (recall that most meteors that survive to hit Earth are primarily iron). I have a Thai meteor sword (two actually). Turns out the Thai had discovered iron meteors and taken it as a gift from God.

Let's revew:
1) There's legetimate reason for someone to claim iron came from the heavens 1500 years ago.
2) The statement that iron specificly was not formed on Earth is misleading to the point of error.

Now keep in mind the state of the world in terms of intelligence at the time of the Prophet Muhammed. Not just his people but the world as a whole. Even the majority of the masses in the roman provinces were illiterate.

This makes me worry about people today.

1) It's "ignorance" not "intelligence". People were just as intelligent then as now
2) Literacy isn't even a goot measure of ignorance.
3) The people around Muhammed were not generally illiterate.
4) Iron meteors do fall from the sky and I can name at least one culture that made that connection explicitly.

 

[Ezzedean]

I was asking why wern't Muslim scholars telling scientists since the Quran was written that the universe is expanding? If the Quran clearly describes the universe expanding then the scholars should have known it was expanding before science did.

I know what you're saying Ryan.. and it only makes sense that a muslim scholar should have stepped up and let the scientists know about the expanding of the universe or once the scientists found out about the expansion a scholar should have maybe stepped up and showed this verse.... but you have to remember, these scholars are no scientists. Even if a scholar were to step up long before people knew about the universe expanding, I'm sure the scientists wouldn't take him too seriously due to what his source is (The Quran). What God has made clear to the human being is that the Quran will be good for all generations, and we will always be able to learn from it. That verse which explains the expansion of the universe probobly didn't make much sense to scholars and was one of those things which they would explain as "Allah's Wisdom", but in due time that verse finally made sense and was understood... hence the miracles of the Quran... People will believe in what they want to believe in... I dont need these miracles and scientific similarities to believe in God and His prophets. There are some similarities that people try to show with the Quran and Science which are iffy, but there are many that I've read which I don't doubt for a second (embryology, expansion, rotation of the planets).

This is slightly off topic but something I found to be interesting. I was watching a documentary on the Golden Jackal a couple of days ago. I was watching them live and hunt with their families. What I found to be most interesting is that these animals live just like God asks us to live within the text of the Quran (no joke). They hunt only to et.. The kids are submissive to their parents and follow their lead in every way. The father is the head of the tribe and has the final say with everything. When a male Jackal found some interest in the daughter of the family they were documenting, the male jackal had to go through the father and get his acceptance before the daughter took off with him, but if the father didn't accept, it wouldn't have happened. Those wild dogs lived their lives the same way muslims are supposed to live... and what's most interesting about the whole situation is that these animals which aren't anywhere near as intelligent as we are didn't sin at all, and lived much more pure lives than we do. I just find it interesting to see something like that.... but I'm sure you guys probobly think otherwise.

Peace and Blessings

 

[JerryL]

Like the Quran commands you to push your weaker siblings out?

The pups begin displaying strict dominance fights early on, and tend to be more aggressive when playing and spend more time away from their litter mates than most other social canids. This fierce combating is what determines who will stay and who will leave the family unit. The more dominant cubs, the ones that assert themselves more, and horde food, and the ones that tend to be more independent, are most likely the ones that will leave the natal clan. However, when conditions are unfavorable for it to leave, it will stay and push the subordinate siblings out of the pack.

Monogomy through force of the dominant woman.

The female golden jackal initiates all den changes. Though the males are predominantly monogamous, females reserve their aggression for female intruders, preventing the sharing of the male and his paternal investment.

 

[Ezzedean]

Like the Quran commands you to push your weaker siblings out?

The pups begin displaying strict dominance fights early on, and tend to be more aggressive when playing and spend more time away from their litter mates than most other social canids. This fierce combating is what determines who will stay and who will leave the family unit. The more dominant cubs, the ones that assert themselves more, and horde food, and the ones that tend to be more independent, are most likely the ones that will leave the natal clan. However, when conditions are unfavorable for it to leave, it will stay and push the subordinate siblings out of the pack.

From what I was watching the weaker sibling stayed behind and chilled in their living area.... I'm sure you know the Quran doesn't say to push our weak children out. What I pointed out in that last post was all still in the lives of the Jackal and very simlar to what God asks from us, which is what I was trying to point out.

Monogomy through force of the dominant woman.

The female golden jackal initiates all den changes. Though the males are predominantly monogamous, females reserve their aggression for female intruders, preventing the sharing of the male and his paternal investment.

I never saw that part in the documentary, from what the narrator was saying when the daughter took off with the male was that they would more than likely make a family just like the one she was a part of and continue the trend, which again is like the muslim lifestyle. Now a muslim male doesn't stay monogamous because of a dominant female and like I already stated it didn't show that within this documentary. I'm not saying you're lying, but it doesn't change the fact that they do stay monogamous.... and it seems like the only way the male can practice polygamy is with the permission of the original wife which is yet again similar to the muslim way lol.. Before people jump all over me for that line... we can practice polygamy only with the first wifes permission, only if we can care and love equally, only if we can support equally, and for growth in family only (not lust)... so in other words I can't see many muslims out there who can pull of polygamy without upsetting God and doing it unjustly. So I'll stick to my post which shows the similarites between the Jackal lifestyle and the lifestyle God asks us to follow... although there are some differences, in GENERAL it is very similar... Of course you disagreed Jerry, I could come in here and say that grass is green and the sky is blue on a nice summer day, and because I'm a muslim you'd probobly come up with some kind of argument against it.. so whatever. I was just pointing out something interesting.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Ryan2065]

I know what you're saying Ryan.. and it only makes sense that a muslim scholar should have stepped up and let the scientists know about the expanding of the universe

Are you suggesting that Muslim scholars always knew the universe is expanding? Like at the time the Quran was written it was common knowledge among Muslim scholars that the universe was expanding?

or once the scientists found out about the expansion a scholar should have maybe stepped up and showed this verse.... but you have to remember, these scholars are no scientists. Even if a scholar were to step up long before people knew about the universe expanding, I'm sure the scientists wouldn't take him too seriously due to what his source is (The Quran).

Right, but would Islam not get many more converts if they showed writings from scholars from say the 1800's that said the Quran described an expanding universe that was still expanding to this day? Are any writings like this around or are you just speculating that they more than likely believed this?

What about any of the other "modern" scientific discoveries the Quran is said to have predicted? Any documentation at all that Muslim scholars knew this since the time the Quran was written or just speculation?

That verse which explains the expansion of the universe probobly didn't make much sense to scholars and was one of those things which they would explain as "Allah's Wisdom", but in due time that verse finally made sense and was understood... hence the miracles of the Quran... People will believe in what they want to believe in... I dont need these miracles and scientific similarities to believe in God and His prophets. There are some similarities that people try to show with the Quran and Science which are iffy, but there are many that I've read which I don't doubt for a second (embryology, expansion, rotation of the planets).

It would be much more convincing if the scholars claimed these things way back when... Apparently the Quran clearly explains these things, so why is it scholars back then didn't know what it said?

 

[JerryL]

From what I was watching the weaker sibling stayed behind and chilled in their living area.... I'm sure you know the Quran doesn't say to push our weak children out. What I pointed out in that last post was all still in the lives of the Jackal and very simlar to what God asks from us, which is what I was trying to point out.

I was pointing out that you were cherry-picking in that (rather off-topic) post.

I never saw that part in the documentary, from what the narrator was saying when the daughter took off with the male was that they would more than likely make a family just like the one she was a part of and continue the trend, which again is like the muslim lifestyle. Now a muslim male doesn't stay monogamous because of a dominant female and like I already stated it didn't show that within this documentary. I'm not saying you're lying, but it doesn't change the fact that they do stay monogamous.... and it seems like the only way the male can practice polygamy is with the permission of the original wife which is yet again similar to the muslim way lol..

Permission which is never given; but again my point is that you are cherry-picking.

although there are some differences, in GENERAL it is very similar... Of course you disagreed Jerry, I could come in here and say that grass is green and the sky is blue on a nice summer day, and because I'm a muslim you'd probobly come up with some kind of argument against it.. so whatever.

And again with the personal comments. WTH?