Scientific Evidence That Islam is the true religion

[Ezzedean]

And again with the personal comments. WTH?

You're the last person who should complain about personal comments... should I show everyone your little private message to me? It was a very personal comment I must say, and one that discredits any kind of complaining you might have.

 

[Ezzedean]

Are you suggesting that Muslim scholars always knew the universe is expanding? Like at the time the Quran was written it was common knowledge among Muslim scholars that the universe was expanding?

I honestly don't know... I can't say so, but I also can't say that it wasn't possible. What I can say is that it HAS been written in the Quran for 1400 years in the arabic language, which is all that really matters. I tried to mention the fact that these scholars were not scientists... I said this because there is a very good chance that they didn't exactly understand the whole verse and what it meant, but with modern science and explanation the verse made a whole lot more sense. Just like a movie, you see something going down, you see it but it doesn't make much sense... but then the big twist at the end of the movie comes up and it all makes sense.. and when you go back to watch the movie again, it's clear as day.

Right, but would Islam not get many more converts if they showed writings from scholars from say the 1800's that said the Quran described an expanding universe that was still expanding to this day? Are any writings like this around or are you just speculating that they more than likely believed this?

I don't know if any writings of this is around Ryan, and I bet there would be many more muslim converts if they showed such a thing... but you can't deny the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion still to this day, and that growing number has a lot to do with converts. Maybe not because of "the expansion of the universe" but because of the Quran itself, and the history of Islam.

What about any of the other "modern" scientific discoveries the Quran is said to have predicted? Any documentation at all that Muslim scholars knew this since the time the Quran was written or just speculation?

Again, I don't know... but I know there is proof of the book not changing at all throughout time... and that these modern discoveries have been in that book for 1400 years, which is all that really matters. Whether or not muslim scholars were able to completely comprehend these verses without the help of scientists shouldn't really matter... the fact that it is in the book and has been in the book for over a thousand years is what really matters. Don't you think?

It would be much more convincing if the scholars claimed these things way back when... Apparently the Quran clearly explains these things, so why is it scholars back then didn't know what it said?

It seems like I'm about to answer the same thing for the fourth time, but I completely know what you're saying Ryan. Please, don't think I'm reading your post and not understanding where you're coming from... but do you understand where I am coming from? It's conversations like this where I realize the importance of reading the Quran in arabic... we should just find out exactly what it says in arabic and what the arabic words mean (which is already translated for us, but not good enough apparantly) and then we can realize that these things have been in the book for 1400 years. I used the movie example before.. but I'll bring up a movie to go with the example. Fight Club. I had no idea he was a schitso... but there were many hints throughout the whole movie. Now just because I didn't notice while watching the movie, it doesn't mean that it wasn't the case... but as soon as I found out he was a schitso it was all very clear, and you notice it everytime you watch the movie. You know where I'm coming from?

Peace and Blessings

 

[Ryan2065]

I honestly don't know... I can't say so, but I also can't say that it wasn't possible. What I can say is that it HAS been written in the Quran for 1400 years in the arabic language, which is all that really matters.

But see, that isn't what matters. As many people have said before, you can look at the language in pretty much any book and see some random sentence that describes a scientific discovery. In the english translations of the Quran, the word "expanding" only has been showing up after the discovery of the expanding universe.

I tried to mention the fact that these scholars were not scientists... I said this because there is a very good chance that they didn't exactly understand the whole verse and what it meant, but with modern science and explanation the verse made a whole lot more sense. Just like a movie, you see something going down, you see it but it doesn't make much sense... but then the big twist at the end of the movie comes up and it all makes sense.. and when you go back to watch the movie again, it's clear as day.

Isn't Allah supposed to tell Muslims what each verse means? If it is open to just your own idea then there is a very good chance you are wrong with all the different verions.

I don't know if any writings of this is around Ryan, and I bet there would be many more muslim converts if they showed such a thing... but you can't deny the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion still to this day, and that growing number has a lot to do with converts. Maybe not because of "the expansion of the universe" but because of the Quran itself, and the history of Islam.

Right, but I was pointing out that if the scholars did think the Quran said these scientific things before science found them out then Muslims would be showing these writings to everyone...

Again, I don't know... but I know there is proof of the book not changing at all throughout time... and that these modern discoveries have been in that book for 1400 years, which is all that really matters. Whether or not muslim scholars were able to completely comprehend these verses without the help of scientists shouldn't really matter... the fact that it is in the book and has been in the book for over a thousand years is what really matters. Don't you think?

But see, each verse that supposidly mentions these scientific discoveries can be translated either way. The verse had meaning before the discovery. As people pointed out, any book can be studied and random coindiences can be found between that book at scientific discoveries. This doesn't mean the origional author intended for these discoveries to be there... It just means people are drawing more from the book than intended.

It seems like I'm about to answer the same thing for the fourth time, but I completely know what you're saying Ryan. Please, don't think I'm reading your post and not understanding where you're coming from... but do you understand where I am coming from? It's conversations like this where I realize the importance of reading the Quran in arabic... we should just find out exactly what it says in arabic and what the arabic words mean (which is already translated for us, but not good enough apparantly) and then we can realize that these things have been in the book for 1400 years. I used the movie example before.. but I'll bring up a movie to go with the example. Fight Club. I had no idea he was a schitso... but there were many hints throughout the whole movie. Now just because I didn't notice while watching the movie, it doesn't mean that it wasn't the case... but as soon as I found out he was a schitso it was all very clear, and you notice it everytime you watch the movie. You know where I'm coming from?

I understand where you are coming from, but your religion is not making any claims any different from other religions. All of them analyze their books for the slightest resemblance of current scientific discoveries to show the world that their book is from god.

Lets say that the origional intent of these passages was to point out the scientific discoveries. This means that for most of the time the Quran has been around the scholars have been getting those passages all wrong. Who is to say all the other passages aren't being read wrong?

The Muslim scholars claimed that the Quran predicted the universe would fold up in itself and then they concluded that the scientific theory of "the big crunch" showed this verse for what it was. Here are the verses.

021.104
YUSUFALI: The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it.
PICKTHAL: The Day when We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolleth up a written scroll. As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. (It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.
SHAKIR: On the day when We will roll up heaven like the rolling up of the scroll for writings, as We originated the first creation, (so) We shall reproduce it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will bring it about.

039.067
YUSUFALI: No just estimate have they made of Allah, such as is due to Him: On the Day of Judgment the whole of the earth will be but His handful, and the heavens will be rolled up in His right hand: Glory to Him! High is He above the Partners they attribute to Him!
PICKTHAL: And they esteem not Allah as He hath the right to be esteemed, when the whole earth is His handful on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens are rolled in His right hand. Glorified is He and High Exalted from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him).
SHAKIR: And they have not honored Allah with the honor that is due to Him; and the whole earth shall be in His grip on the day of resurrection and the heavens rolled up in His right hand; glory be to Him, and may He be exalted above what they associate (with Him).

Sure does seem like the Quran is describing the big crunch doesn't it? So why is it you cannot find this claim on many Muslim websites that are claiming the Quran predicts scientific discoveries? Could it be because the big crunch idea has been considered disproven since 2002?

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

So we get iron when the iron lands here and we go and pick it up? I was under the impression most if not all of the iron we use was on the earth/in the earth before humans were created. We would not exactly be in good shape if iron was raining down on us...

Obviously it does not rain continuously like water but it is sent down as debris from collapsing stars do come into the earths atmosphere

Right, but if a civilization found out the earth was round a thousand years before then god isn't exactly the only way they could have known the earth was round.

Of course but the arabs in the time of Muhammed did not have scientific means. No telescopes. these concept were completely foreign to "them" as true. If civilization found out about it like for example the people of Sodom. If Allah revealed anything or if they found it out through scientific means. How would you know when there is no evidence or remains of a civilization. If Muhammed and his people "NEVER" heard this from someone where did he get it.

I was asking why wern't Muslim scholars telling scientists since the Quran was written that the universe is expanding? If the Quran clearly describes the universe expanding then the scholars should have known it was expanding before science did.

They were but if you remember. the whole idea was rejected by much of the scientific community until recent years. Plus many are unaware that muslims brought the concept of Algebra and Calculus. They brought the Europeans out of the dark ages. But this is not taught in school so people will not know it. It is the same as if people who learn truth from the News of course they will be under and misinformed. I hope this helps

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

You claim that the Quran says that the universe explodes in red.
The universe does not explode in red, it expoldes across the entire electromagnetc range.

So explain to me how the passage being wrong proves that it is right.

Another brother claimed this I never said it was an evidence. The cat nebula thing is a stretch. There are many things in our universe that burn red.

I'll hold my breath while I wait.

Thats funny

The people around were not ignorant of the idea, therefore your question is reliant upon a false presupposition.

The arabs were maybe others were aware maybe before him as well. But he never had it.

He obviously did not know it. Much as the Greeks proclaimed fire a gift from the Gods, so Muhammed proclaimed iron a gift from the Gods.

No a gift from Allah. Just one God.

This could have simply ben done because of the importance of iron. It's also possible that someone somewhere had tracked down a meteorite and started the legend (recall that most meteors that survive to hit Earth are primarily iron). I have a Thai meteor sword (two actually). Turns out the Thai had discovered iron meteors and taken it as a gift from God.

I agree but when did science discover this as true in our day and age.

Let's revew:
1) There's legetimate reason for someone to claim iron came from the heavens 1500 years ago.

What was the reason Allah told Muhammed this.

2) The statement that iron specificly was not formed on Earth is misleading to the point of error.

How so. Does it come from somewhere else I am unaware of.

This makes me worry about people today.

I agree.

1) It's "ignorance" not "intelligence". People were just as intelligent then as now

When exactly. The Dark Ages? They called the time of the arabs before Muhammed "Jahiliya" which means the age of Ignorance.

2) Literacy isn't even a goot measure of ignorance.

True, but it is a factor in some practical areas such as the study of history, or philosophy how can you learn what is in a book if it is not written.

3) The people around Muhammed were not generally illiterate.

True, but he was and he was the one teaching them the words of Allah. None of them were considered scholars of math, science, again these concepts were foreign to them.

4) Iron meteors do fall from the sky and I can name at least one culture that made that connection explicitly.

That is excellent and I would agree but HOW DID HE GET IT. For example, If I wrote you a secret letter and mailed it. Yet you never received it and I did not tell you about it. How would you know about it. I see what you are saying but the fact is the man did not have the knowledge neither did his people. Their gift and passion was poetry. Not science, not math or philosophy. They did whatever their ancestors did or told them. that was their problem

 

[choirboy]

The muslims may have discovered calculus independantly as this does happen in history but it certainly was not passed on to the Europeans. Isaac Newton and Christian Huygens created calculus independantly at roughly the same time. I think there is also some evidence that Archimedes had theories about calculus as well.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

But see, that isn't what matters. As many people have said before, you can look at the language in pretty much any book and see some random sentence that describes a scientific discovery. In the english translations of the Quran, the word "expanding" only has been showing up after the discovery of the expanding universe.

No the word was always there but the first english translation came later. This word was known to the arabs for it is in their book.

Isn't Allah supposed to tell Muslims what each verse means? If it is open to just your own idea then there is a very good chance you are wrong with all the different verions.

first there is only one version of the Quran(the arabic one) there may be different translation but there is only one Quran. 2nd the Prophet sat some of the most knowledgable of his companions down and told them what each verse meant and he made the companion repeat it. They did this three times

Right, but I was pointing out that if the scholars did think the Quran said these scientific things before science found them out then Muslims would be showing these writings to everyone...

That is only if the istitutions want you to see it. It is the same as how the media suppresses the evidence of a cover up on 9-11. People believe whatever CNN says if it is not there the majority of people will be unaware. Just like you are unaware that muslim scholars have been saying this for years and years.

But see, each verse that supposidly mentions these scientific discoveries can be translated either way. The verse had meaning before the discovery. As people pointed out, any book can be studied and random coindiences can be found between that book at scientific discoveries. This doesn't mean the origional author intended for these discoveries to be there... It just means people are drawing more from the book than intended.

You can only translate a word within the givin context otherwise it becomes a mistranslation. And yes the original author who is Allah the creator of the heavens and the universe, the one who holds all the knowlege of his creation told him this scientific truth. He told us in the Quran he sent it as a guide and a mercy so that man may sit and ponder over the verses and ponder over the creation of Allah in all its wonder and splendor. Science discovers it to be true later on.

I understand where you are coming from, but your religion is not making any claims any different from other religions. All of them analyze their books for the slightest resemblance of current scientific discoveries to show the world that their book is from god.

Give me an example in other religions where all the statements have been proven. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the "CATHOLIC CHURCH" condemn Galileo for saying the earth is roung.

Lets say that the origional intent of these passages was to point out the scientific discoveries. This means that for most of the time the Quran has been around the scholars have been getting those passages all wrong. Who is to say all the other passages aren't being read wrong?

Which scholars are you talking about. Who has gotten it wrong and what have they said.

The Muslim scholars claimed that the Quran predicted the universe would fold up in itself and then they concluded that the scientific theory of "the big crunch" showed this verse for what it was. Here are the verses.
Sure does seem like the Quran is describing the big crunch doesn't it? So why is it you cannot find this claim on many Muslim websites that are claiming the Quran predicts scientific discoveries? Could it be because the big crunch idea has been considered disproven since 2002?

What do you mean the big crunch. Do you mean when the universe implodes on itself. If this is what you mean we have an evidence it is the story of what happens on the Day of Resurrection before the judgment.

 

[choirboy]

There are a lot of people who think that the koran was not formed from Mohamads teachings and so could not possibly be the word of god. The teachings were apparently accumalated into written form some 2 generations after his death. If this was true then scientific points of evidence in the Koran would be a moot point. Also any evidence could not be relied upon as it would be impossible to tell if it came from the original teachings of Mohamad.

 

[Ryan2065]

Obviously it does not rain continuously like water but it is sent down as debris from collapsing stars do come into the earths atmosphere

I was under the impression we got our iron from the ground and hardly any iron actually comes from the stars shooting stuff down onto our earth...

Of course but the arabs in the time of Muhammed did not have scientific means. No telescopes. these concept were completely foreign to "them" as true. If civilization found out about it like for example the people of Sodom. If Allah revealed anything or if they found it out through scientific means. How would you know when there is no evidence or remains of a civilization. If Muhammed and his people "NEVER" heard this from someone where did he get it.

You do not need telescopes to find out the earth is not flat... Aristotle looked at the stars and from that he determined the earth was not flat... No telescopes... Just looking at the stars.

They were but if you remember. the whole idea was rejected by much of the scientific community until recent years. Plus many are unaware that muslims brought the concept of Algebra and Calculus. They brought the Europeans out of the dark ages. But this is not taught in school so people will not know it. It is the same as if people who learn truth from the News of course they will be under and misinformed. I hope this helps

So you are claiming that Muslim scholars were teaching that the universe was expanding since the Quran was written? Do you have anything to back this up? The word "expanding" can only be found in english translations after the scientific discovery... So no one apparently told the translators.

 

[Ryan2065]

No the word was always there but the first english translation came later. This word was known to the arabs for it is in their book.

Right, but none of the english translators then knew that the universe was expanding and this is how the word was to be translated. Or is it just a coindience that the english translators (Muslim scholars) did not translate that word as expanding until after the scientific discovery?

first there is only one version of the Quran(the arabic one) there may be different translation but there is only one Quran. 2nd the Prophet sat some of the most knowledgable of his companions down and told them what each verse meant and he made the companion repeat it. They did this three times

So then why is it the meanings of the verses in terms of science are only coming out after the scientific discoveries?

That is only if the istitutions want you to see it. It is the same as how the media suppresses the evidence of a cover up on 9-11. People believe whatever CNN says if it is not there the majority of people will be unaware. Just like you are unaware that muslim scholars have been saying this for years and years.

I can link evidence of a 9/11 coverup from a number of sources... Can you link any evidence that Muslim scholars thought the universe was expanding before science? I looked for a long time but found nothing...

You can only translate a word within the givin context otherwise it becomes a mistranslation. And yes the original author who is Allah the creator of the heavens and the universe, the one who holds all the knowlege of his creation told him this scientific truth. He told us in the Quran he sent it as a guide and a mercy so that man may sit and ponder over the verses and ponder over the creation of Allah in all its wonder and splendor. Science discovers it to be true later on.

Can you link anything that shows the Muslim scholars believed the universe was expanding before science? Again, I found nothing of the sort...

Give me an example in other religions where all the statements have been proven. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the "CATHOLIC CHURCH" condemn Galileo for saying the earth is roung.

Not saying everything was proven =p But there are many statements that are proven... Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Quran say the universe is going to end in a big crunch? Something science disagrees with...

What do you mean the big crunch. Do you mean when the universe implodes on itself. If this is what you mean we have an evidence it is the story of what happens on the Day of Resurrection before the judgment.

I am talking scientific evidence... When the scientists said that the universe would probably end in the same way it began all going back to a single point the Muslim scholars pointed out that the Quran says exactly this. Now science says that the universe won't end this way and Muslim scholars have stopped saying this.

 

[choirboy]

Aristophanes determined the earth was round and attempted a measurement for its diameter. Pre christian and pre muslim.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

There are a lot of people who think that the koran was not formed from Mohamads teachings and so could not possibly be the word of god.

So if not Muhammeds teachings and not from Allah how did it happen then.

The teachings were apparently accumalated into written form some 2 generations after his death.

what is your apparent evidence for the written form 2 generations after his death. Because we have an evidence it was done in his lifetime.

If this was true then scientific points of evidence in the Koran would be a moot point. Also any evidence could not be relied upon as it would be impossible to tell if it came from the original teachings of Mohamad.

You need to study the sciences of the Hadith. They know what came from him and what did not. Sad you know so little about Muhammed and his companions.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I was under the impression we got our iron from the ground and hardly any iron actually comes from the stars shooting stuff down onto our earth...

Iron orignates from the nucleus of a star when they explode meteors come and land people find them. Sometimes they explode on reentry and scatter pieces of Iron all over the planet.

You do not need telescopes to find out the earth is not flat... Aristotle looked at the stars and from that he determined the earth was not flat... No telescopes... Just looking at the stars.

But the man had a understanding of math and other sciences. He was infuluenced by other thinkers. Muhammed was a illiterate sheep herder. His people were not far above him in knowledge.

So you are claiming that Muslim scholars were teaching that the universe was expanding since the Quran was written? Do you have anything to back this up?

Yes, the QURAN. It is in the Quran and this is what muslim taught people.

The word "expanding" can only be found in english translations after the scientific discovery... So no one apparently told the translators.

Proof that. get me an ancient english translation where they used some other word. What is the context of the word in arabic. OF COURSE EXPANDING CAN ONLY BE FOUND IN AN ENGLISH TRANSLATION "Expanding" is an english word. English is not the oldest of languages. When you say salat in Arabic it means the prayer. That does not mean the concept of prayer is foreign. Just like the concept of things expanding is not new. You will not find the word KING in the Quran because it is arabic you will find the word Malik which means King.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Right, but none of the english translators then knew that the universe was expanding and this is how the word was to be translated. Or is it just a coindience that the english translators (Muslim scholars) did not translate that word as expanding until after the scientific discovery?

When was it discovered as scientifically true. And was that before or after the first english translation.

So then why is it the meanings of the verses in terms of science are only coming out after the scientific discoveries?

It is only now that you as an individual are hearing this. This proves my point about how Muhammed had no knowledge of any of this before Allah told him. You yourself have just now heard about these things.

I can link evidence of a 9/11 coverup from a number of sources... Can you link any evidence that Muslim scholars thought the universe was expanding before science? I looked for a long time but found nothing...

You are missing my point. I was speaking in terms of the massess being aware of these concepts. For example my parents. Lived in America their whole lives. They know as much as CNN and CNBC will teach them about Islam. Is this a true representation, No What do you mean before science. In what era.

Not saying everything was proven =p But there are many statements that are proven... Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Quran say the universe is going to end in a big crunch? Something science disagrees with...

I am not sure i will ask my sheihk. I know there are many hadith on the ending of the universe and this could be what they may be referring to.

I am talking scientific evidence... When the scientists said that the universe would probably end in the same way it began all going back to a single point the Muslim scholars pointed out that the Quran says exactly this. Now science says that the universe won't end this way and Muslim scholars have stopped saying this.

Who is the scholars you are talking about, and when did this happen. And what verse.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Aristophanes determined the earth was round and attempted a measurement for its diameter. Pre christian and pre muslim.

Alhumdulilah, The egyptians performed surgery what is your point. He determined this based on philosophies and the culmunation of many ideas. Give me the list of the great scholars who Muhammed pbu learned these from. Perhaps his sheep told him while he was herding them.

 

[JerryL]

Another brother claimed this I never said it was an evidence. The cat nebula thing is a stretch. There are many things in our universe that burn red.

Fair enough. My apolgy for misquoting you.

The arabs were maybe others were aware maybe before him as well. But he never had it.

Can you prove this claim?

No a gift from Allah. Just one God.

Symantics. I ment nothing by the pronoun.

I agree but when did science discover this as true in our day and age.

That iron meteors fall from the sky? Befor Muhammed.

What was the reason Allah told Muhammed this.

You are assuming your conclusion. Whether Allah told Muhammed this is part of the question of hte discussion.

How so. Does it come from somewhere else I am unaware of.

Essentially no element on the Earth was formed here.

When exactly. The Dark Ages? They called the time of the arabs before Muhammed "Jahiliya" which means the age of Ignorance.

Intelligence has not really changed in melennia.

True, but it is a factor in some practical areas such as the study of history, or philosophy how can you learn what is in a book if it is not written.

How was the Quran originall passed down? How was the Torah? Oral tradition.

True, but he was and he was the one teaching them the words of Allah. None of them were considered scholars of math, science, again these concepts were foreign to them.

I doubt that math or science (as it existed at the time) was foreign to them. Can you support this claim?

That is excellent and I would agree but HOW DID HE GET IT. For example, If I wrote you a secret letter and mailed it. Yet you never received it and I did not tell you about it. How would you know about it. I see what you are saying but the fact is the man did not have the knowledge neither did his people. Their gift and passion was poetry. Not science, not math or philosophy. They did whatever their ancestors did or told them. that was their problem

If one culture made the connection, it's not difficult to imagine that others did.

How did the arabs get this knowledge? My first guess is that someone saw a meteor fall to earth, found it, and discoverd that it was made of iron.

 

[Ryan2065]

Iron orignates from the nucleus of a star when they explode meteors come and land people find them. Sometimes they explode on reentry and scatter pieces of Iron all over the planet.

Again I was under the impression most of the iron we use was already in the earth... Meaning the iron did come from a star but came to the earth during the formation... Surely you do not believe iron is currently raining down on the earth and the iron mines move from fall site to fall site? The earths core has alot of iron in it... How did that get there if iron only falls from the sky?

But the man had a understanding of math and other sciences. He was infuluenced by other thinkers. Muhammed was a illiterate sheep herder. His people were not far above him in knowledge.

To find out the earth is not flat one only needs to have an appreciation for the stars and be known to travel... I thought Muhammed did both of these?

Yes, the QURAN. It is in the Quran and this is what muslim taught people.

Are you saying that the Muslim scholars understood that the universe was expanding since the time the Quran was written? If so, why is it no expansion is talked about in any of the old english translations? I know they are not the perfect version, but if someone knew that verse meant "The universe is expanding" one would think they would use the word expanding instead of the words they did use...

Proof that. get me an ancient english translation where they used some other word. What is the context of the word in arabic. OF COURSE EXPANDING CAN ONLY BE FOUND IN AN ENGLISH TRANSLATION "Expanding" is an english word. English is not the oldest of languages. When you say salat in Arabic it means the prayer. That does not mean the concept of prayer is foreign. Just like the concept of things expanding is not new. You will not find the word KING in the Quran because it is arabic you will find the word Malik which means King.

Instead of me running around trying to prove that people did not believe something, why don't you show that Muslim scholars did believe this?

If you want a link about not using the word expanding...
http://www.harvardhouse.com/expanding_universe_quran.htm

"...With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.... " (Surah 51:47). [FONT=arial,helvetica]Yusufali[/FONT]
"...We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).... " (Surah 51:47). [FONT=arial,helvetica]Pickthal[/FONT]
"...And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.... " (Surah 51:47). [FONT=arial,helvetica]Shakir[/FONT]
The earlier translations do not support the expanding universe. Therefore, it is appropriate to question the translation that uses the word, "expanding" . These earlier translations support that Muslims are looking for anything they can find to build support for their belief system.

 

[Ryan2065]

When was it discovered as scientifically true. And was that before or after the first english translation.

Expanding universe was discovered in 1929 I believe... Earliest translation I submitted was published in 1930... then 1934 and then 1989.

You are missing my point. I was speaking in terms of the massess being aware of these concepts. For example my parents. Lived in America their whole lives. They know as much as CNN and CNBC will teach them about Islam. Is this a true representation, No What do you mean before science. In what era.

Muslim scholars before 1929 saying the universe is expanding... This is what I am asking for... The english translations in the 1930's surely do not describe a expanding universe... My point is those english translators apparently did not realize those verses were meant to describe an expanding universe so they did not translate it that way. If, as you say, it was common knowledge among the Muslim scholars they more than likely would have translated the Quran in this way.

Who is the scholars you are talking about, and when did this happen. And what verse.

Er, 5 verses actually... Here is a link from a PHD Muslim scholar who wrote an article in 2003 about how the Quran predicts the universe will contract and there will be the big crunch.
http://islamonline.net/English/Science/2003/01/article10.shtml

The most widely accepted scenario of the “first big bang”, followed by the formation of smoky nebulae in which the nuclei of matter started to form, small and large scale structures started to condense from fluctuations in the density of matter that would have seeded galaxies, followed by the expansion (or inflation) of the universe, then its expected contraction (or big crunch), the expected " second big bang", followed by the creation of new cosmos, are beautifully described in the following 5 Qur'anic verses ​

(21:30); (41:11); (51:47); (21:104) and (14:48).

 

[choirboy]

Alhumdulilah, The egyptians performed surgery what is your point. He determined this based on philosophies and the culmunation of many ideas. Give me the list of the great scholars who Muhammed pbu learned these from. Perhaps his sheep told him while he was herding them.

bless you. Mohammed didn't have to learn them because he didn't write the Koran. Other learned people did. In fact there were a large number of ideas and beliefs about Islam that had to be written down because they were causing great rifts in the arab world. This was 2 generations after the death of Mohammed.

Its a bit like this translation into english of the koran thats currently going on. How many versions are there all with different wording to suit the latest scientific theories.

Even now muslims are rewriting the Koran.

 

[Ryan2065]

Also, another quick note...

Muhammed was not an illiterate and was exposted to the Greek and Roman sciences. He was born to a well to do family in Mecca where he would have more than likely learned to read and write. Also, Muhammed made frequent trips to Syria while he was in his teens with his uncle while Syria was under Byzantine control. The Byzantines considered themselves Roman and preserved the Roman and Greek sciences (in fact they transfered it on to Islam) so someone traveling through Syria while under Byzantine control would have been able to learn about the Roman and Greek sciences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantines#Science_and_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed#Childhood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria#History

I just summed up those three articles... No direct quotes today!