Scientists and Christianity...

[Hospitaller]

what the Catholic Church denies is atheistic evolution. everything else goes, but with God in the picture. the end.

 

[themadhair]

what the Catholic Church denies is atheistic evolution. everything else goes, but with God in the picture. the end.

There is no such thing as 'atheistic evolution'. There is this thing called 'evolution' though which a lot people have unfounded religious objections to.
Once upon a time your church objected to 'atheistic astronomy' too you know.

 

[Hospitaller]

There is no such thing as 'atheistic evolution'. There is this thing called 'evolution' though which a lot people have unfounded religious objections to.
Once upon a time your church objected to 'atheistic astronomy' too you know.

How can there not be? Atheistic evolution is the belief that the theory of evolution happened without a higher power overlooking it. There is really only two types of the evolution theory, atheistic, or theistic.

 

[themadhair]

Atheistic evolution is the belief that the theory of evolution happened without a higher power overlooking it.

I really have to call you on this made-up term. Science, by its very nature, takes no position whatsoever on the supernatural. Claiming it does is misrepresenting science.

There is really only two types of the evolution theory, atheistic, or theistic.

Ermm...not really. There is the theory of evolution, which is the scientific theory describing how inherited characteristics lead to the current bio-diversity on earth. All others, such as the two you mention, are non-scientific ideas so I couldn't care less about them.

 

[fantome profane]

How can there not be? Atheistic evolution is the belief that the theory of evolution happened without a higher power overlooking it. There is really only two types of the evolution theory, atheistic, or theistic.

No, evolution is a scientific theory. Theistic evolution or Atheistic evolution are metaphysical (not scientific) positions that people take regarding this scientific theory. Theistic evolution is not science, it is a metaphysical belief. Atheistic evolution is not science, it is a metaphysical belief. Evolution is science. Science takes no position on the existence of “God” either way. Evolution makes no claims on the existence of “God” either way.

Does that clarify things for you?

 

[Enoch07]

If someone claimed the world was created 100 years ago would that be an equally valid opinion?

Does not matter to me. I do not care how old the earth is. How could this knowledge help in my everyday life?

As I said – your beliefs are a scientific retardant. You enjoy the fruits of scientific knowledge everyday. Still touchy that it disproved that whole literalism thing.

How is my beliefs retardant to science? I am not stopping you in anyway. You only hurt science by insulting people like me who might have donated money for scientific research, because like I said it is useful, but why should I when you are just going to use it to say I am an idiot? Scientist might be intelligent but most have no people skills as proved by your comments already.

It amazes me that people think this is an argument when so many deeply religious people can understand what science is and what it shows. The catholic church, despite phenomenal resistance, finally realised this. Question is why haven’t you and your fellow literalists?

Again free thought > all. You really have a problem allowing people to believe something other than your beliefs. There is a word for that you know.

More presenting of evidence I suppose. The issue of ensuring the quality of science education in economies reliant on technology is too important IMO.

Yes because wasting millions of dollars on genetic history is much more important than developing cheaper/better medicines for all, or just about any other scientific break through that could help man kind on an everyday basis. I suppose it is more important for scientist to say nanna nanna boo boo we was right you are wrong, than helping sick people.

 

[Hospitaller]

No, evolution is a scientific theory. Theistic evolution or Atheistic evolution are metaphysical (not scientific) positions that people take regarding this scientific theory. Theistic evolution is not science, it is a metaphysical belief. Atheistic evolution is not science, it is a metaphysical belief. Evolution is science. Science takes no position on the existence of “God” either way. Evolution makes no claims on the existence of “God” either way.

Does that clarify things for you?

hmm.. yes but i was actually reffering to the metaphysical beliefs because it is, well, Religious Forums.

edit: "People usually take three basic positions on the origins of the cosmos, life, and man1) special or instantaneous creation, (2) developmental creation or theistic evolution, (3) and atheistic evolution."

 

[fantome profane]

hmm.. yes but i was actually reffering to the metaphysical beliefs because it is, well, Religious Forums.

Fine, just be careful you don’t confuse the two. Atheistic evolution is not a version of the scientific theory, nor is theistic evolution.

Science has nothing whatsoever to say on the existence of “God”, but the scientific evidence for evolution is overwhelming.

 

[fantome profane]

edit: "People usually take three basic positions on the origins of the cosmos, life, and man1) special or instantaneous creation, (2) developmental creation or theistic evolution, (3) and atheistic evolution."

# 2 and # 3 are both consistent with the scientific evidence, # 1 clearly is not.

 

[Hospitaller]

# 2 and # 3 are both consistent with the scientific evidence, # 1 clearly is not.

why not? couldnt the scientific theory have happened with God leading the way? If not, why?

 

[fantome profane]

why not? couldnt the scientific theory have happened with God leading the way? If not, why?

That is idea # 2. Theistic evolution is perfectly valid in my opinion, not scientific, but valid.

 

[themadhair]

Does not matter to me. I do not care how old the earth is. How could this knowledge help in my everyday life?

To give an example, the knowledge of atomic physics leads to radiometric dating which puts a minimum age on the earth of about 3.9 billion years. The same knowledge of atomic physics leans to the development of pnp gates which leads to transistors which leads to computers which you many people use in their everyday life. Many of the technologies you enjoy come from the same scientific understanding that leads science to conclude that the literal interpretation of Genesis is wrong.

How is my beliefs retardant to science?

Since pretty much all of modern science disagrees with six-day creation, the flood, a 6,000 year old earth, etc. your beliefs are rejecting pretty much all of modern science. If that isn’t a retardant to science then I don’t know what is.

You only hurt science by insulting people like me who might have donated money for scientific research, because like I said it is a useful, but why should I when you are just going to use it to say I am an idiot?

More than likely you will have donated money to your local church or similar. Being a literalistic denomination this group is very likely to donate some of that money to charlatan groups that attack science education standards. Your donations would likely have a net detriment to science education and research – but fair play for trying.

Scientist might be intelligent but most have no people skills as proved by your comments already.

I do not see calling people out for lacking reality skills as being a bad thing. It is support from people like yourself that sponsors the anti-science movements in both our countries – and I have nothing to be ashamed for by pointing that out.

You really have a problem allowing people to believe something other than your beliefs.

I tend to have a problem with people who deny reality in this way. Feel free to try and play the martyr. Nothing defend the indefensible than crying persecution.

Yes because wasting millions of dollars on genetic history is much more important than developing cheaper/better medicines for all, or just about any other scientific break through that could help man kind on an everyday basis.

Unfortunately, likely due to your scientific illiteracy, you are missing the crucial point here. Genetic research leads to gene manipulation technologies which leads engineering bacteria capable of producing better/cheaper medicines. Of course by not knowing squat about science you didn’t know this.

I suppose it is more important for scientist to say nanna nanna boo boo we was right you are wrong, than helping sick people.

Many of the medicines and vaccinations you use were developed by directly applying knowledge of evolutionary theory and research. Science research produces better medicines and treatments that benefit us all. Unfortunately, some people who are in denial of reality due to their biblical literalism are actively working to decay the quality of science education. This puts that scientific research at risk – research that has the potential to benefits us all greatly.
It is ironic that your literalist beliefs are threatening scientific prosperity, and the medicinal benefits that prosperity brings, and you bring up helping sick people.

 

[darkendless]

To everyone who believes in Young Earth creationism/the great flood etc.

Please do me a favour and go dig a hole in your back yard about 1m/3 ft deep, and have a look at the different colour as you get deeper. That is enough proof to smash young earth creationism.

To those who believe in the great flood: You fail at logic. These kinds of people need to be educated or put into some sort of care. Ignorance is dangerous.

 

[Enoch07]

To give an example, the knowledge of atomic physics leads to radiometric dating which puts a minimum age on the earth of about 3.9 billion years. The same knowledge of atomic physics leans to the development of pnp gates which leads to transistors which leads to computers which you many people use in their everyday life. Many of the technologies you enjoy come from the same scientific understanding that leads science to conclude that the literal interpretation of Genesis is wrong.9

See this is where you prove my point about people skills.

Since pretty much all of modern science disagrees with six-day creation, the flood, a 6,000 year old earth, etc. your beliefs are rejecting pretty much all of modern science. If that isn’t a retardant to science then I don’t know what is.

You are just being hateful now.

More than likely you will have donated money to your local church or similar. Being a literalistic denomination this group is very likely to donate some of that money to charlatan groups that attack science education standards. Your donations would likely have a net detriment to science education and research – but fair play for trying.

I donate money for many causes, some scientific, but at least they are nice enough to not spit in my face and call me an idiot.

I do not see calling people out for lacking reality skills as being a bad thing. It is support from people like yourself that sponsors the anti-science movements in both our countries – and I have nothing to be ashamed for by pointing that out.

You assume too much. See previous answer.

I tend to have a problem with people who deny reality in this way. Feel free to try and play the martyr. Nothing defend the indefensible than crying persecution.

You are the one claiming religious beliefs prevents you from advancing scientific knowledge. See final answer as well. I do not prevent you from thinking what you want, but you want to force me to think the way you do. How is that right by any means?

Unfortunately, likely due to your scientific illiteracy, you are missing the crucial point here. Genetic research leads to gene manipulation technologies which leads engineering bacteria capable of producing better/cheaper medicines. Of course by not knowing squat about science you didn’t know this.

Genetic research of genes 150,000 years old helps to make better medicines for todays humans. Gotcha. Even though said genes have evolved during that time.

Many of the medicines and vaccinations you use were developed by directly applying knowledge of evolutionary theory and research. Science research produces better medicines and treatments that benefit us all. Unfortunately, some people who are in denial of reality due to their biblical literalism are actively working to decay the quality of science education. This puts that scientific research at risk – research that has the potential to benefits us all greatly.
It is ironic that your literalist beliefs are threatening scientific prosperity, and the medicinal benefits that prosperity brings, and you bring up helping sick people.

Who's playing the martyr again?

 

[Smoke]

insulting me wont get you anywhere, friend.

I didn't mean it as an insult; I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Autodidact]

A Christian (who doesn't believe in evolution) recently told me that there are scientists who are now admitting that "evolution don't happen", and that there are a lot of scientists who are turning to Christianity and the Bible.

Has anyone else heard about this? I thought scientists considered evolution a fact? Can anyone elaborate?

Someone is lying to your friend, who irresponsibly passed this misinformation on to you. Approximately 99.9% of Biologists accept the Theory of Evolution. Many of them are Christian and accept the Bible; they are not by any means mutually exclusive.

 

[Autodidact]

A dog will never become a cat.
And a cat will never become a dog.

Fascinating. Irrelevant, but fascinating.
RomCat: You have no idea what evolution is, do you?

 

[Autodidact]

it is true that some scientists who formerly agreed with evolution do turn to Biblical Creationism.

Name ten biologists who have turned from evolution to Biblical Creationism.

 

[Autodidact]

i heard that its okay to believe in adaptation evolution as a Roman Catholic, its just the idea that we came from apes and that everything came from a cell that's the real bullcrap (no offense to anyone).

You don't know what the Theory of Evolution is either, do you?

 

[Autodidact]

Not all of humanity came from Adam and Eve. In case you have not noticed there are many different races all with unique traits. All races of humans was made on the 6th day of creation, not just Adams. Adam and Eve's story is special because it is that particular genealogy that eventually leads us to Jesus, which is why they started in Eden. You can trace back Jesus genealogy as proof of that. Most of us are from one of the races that started outside of Eden.

You can trace Jesus' genealogy? How? If you mean the Bible, then which genealogy are you choosing?