Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I agree with you, my friend.
I'd also like to say that I'm confident that you're taking all of this redundant proselytizing and preaching of Christianity with a grain of salt.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Second Coming
- Thread starter Jimmy
- Start date
I agree with you, my friend.
I'd also like to say that I'm confident that you're taking all of this redundant proselytizing and preaching of Christianity with a grain of salt.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I know full well what Christians believe and I consider it completely false.
**mod edit**
Last edited by a moderator:
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You have neither met Jesus nor touched God.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
and you are going to be waiting till hell freezes over.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
No more means no further, never again.
no more
nothing further.
"there was no more to be said about it"
no further.
"you must have some soup, but no more wine"
exist no longer.
"the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"
never again.
"mention his name no more to me"
neither.
"I had no complaints and no more did Tom"
Oxford Languages and Google - English | Oxford Languages
Google’s English dictionary is provided by Oxford Languages. Oxford Languages is the world’s leading dictionary publisher, with over 150 years of experience creating and delivering authoritative dictionaries globally in more than 50 languages.
languages.oup.com
Feedmysheep
Member
Are waiting is not passive. Many of us are quite occupied with His economy to dispense His life into all our being.
You assume only passive idle waiting is involved.
So what?
This is the kind of selective quoting you need to do to twist God's word.
This is the cherry picking you have been deceived to do to ratoinalize your kind of rejection of the Son of God.
You have taught me exactly nothing about this glorious discourse of Jesus in John 14.
So what?
Your abbreviated, selective references to uphold the false prophet simply are not in the least impressive.
The sad thing is that the first person to be damaged by these twistings is yourself. You are doing this to your own hurt.
More cherry picking selective quoting.
The book of Hebrews from chapter three is all about the heavenly ministry of Christ which He carries out since His ascension.
The concept of the epistle to the Hebrews is focused on Christ as the presently ministering High Priest.
He is sitting in the heavens (Heb. 1:3). Sitting there he is ministering the divine nature into His people.
He entered into the heavens (9:24). And we may in our regenerated spirit come forward to Him and to His throne of grace.
He passed through the heavens (4:14). This is for the carrying out of His ministering in ascension as "a great High Priest".
He became higher than the heavens (7:26). His heavenly priestly service is His working to built His living house on earth.
Then Hebrews tells of the believers "heavenly calling" - responding to (7:1)
It talk about the postive heavenly gifts as part of His ministering from there. (6:4)
He is still the Apostle carrying out His work in men on earth.
He serves as our Forerunner receiving us as we follow Him within the holy realm of His presence.
He is always living to intercede for us that we might be saved to the uttermost. That's work.
Christ came to us with God to share God with us that we may partake of His divine life, nature, and fullness.
He is depected in Revelation as a Priest girded about the breasts showing His working heart is a heart of love.
He is seen as walking among the seven churches meaning as a priest tending to the lamps providing oil Christ
has a ministry of dispensing His Spirit into the local churches on earth that they shine in the night.
Christ for two thousand years has been interceding for the salvation and growth of all those who come forward to Him.
He is fully carrying for those who come forward to Him. That is service, labor in intercession, being our attorney, defender, Comforter, Paraclete, and the moving anointing of the Spirit within us.
But He, because He abides forever, has His priesthood unalterable.
Hence also He is able to save to the uttermost those who come forward to God through Him, since He lives always to intercede for them. For such a High Priest was also fitting to us, holy, guileless, undefiled, separated from sinners and having become higher than the heavens, (Heb, 7:244-26)
Christ is today the interceding High Priest working still to dispense His life into the saved.
You're missing all the enjoyment. And you're not taking advantage of the time alloted to us before His second coming to establish His kingdom.
So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time to those who eagerly await Him, apart from sin, unto salvation. (Heb. 9:28)
Feedmysheep
Member
Yes I have both known the Lord and touched Him in my innermost being.
You see "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)
One part of my being is joined as one mingled union with the resurrected Christ.
Feedmysheep
Member
No, Jesus saying He came to give Himself as a ransom for all is His teaching He came to die
a redemptive death. And God vindicated His work by raising Him from the dead.
who believe on Him who has raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,
Who was delivered for our offenses and was raised for our justification. (Rom. 4:24b,25)
In resurrection He is the Great High Priest who lives perpetually with an indestructible life.
He intercedes for the saints that they may be saved thoroughly, completely, to the uttermost.
For it is testified, “You are a Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.” (Heb. 7:17)
And again -
But He, because He abides forever, has His priesthood unalterable.
Hence also He is able to save to the uttermost those who come forward to God through Him,
since He lives always to intercede for them. (vs. 24,25)
Feedmysheep
Member
Are you a real tolerant type - "Live and let live" kind of guy.
Or is it that you just never had anything worth being excited about and telling others?
Hey, I'm sorry if you never had anything you thought others should really hear and know about.
Feedmysheep
Member
Are you a real tolerant type - "Live and let live" kind of guy?
Or is it that you just never had anything worth being excited about and telling others?
Hey, I'm sorry if you never had anything you thought others should really hear and know about.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I only said you are waiting. Who said I assumed that only passive idle waiting is involved?
It is not my Bible. The Bible says what it says, I don't have to twist anything.
No More in the world means No More in the world. That is the plain meaning and you cannot do anything about it.
I didn't say it, Jesus did.
Nobody deceived me. I read the Bible and it is obvious what it means.
Please do not misrepresent me. I do not reject the Son of God, I believe in Him wholeheartedly. That is a prerequisite for being a Baha'i.
“As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,” whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused “the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance to flow out of his mouth.” .....
Indeed, the essential prerequisites of admittance into the Bahá’í fold of Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, and the followers of other ancient faiths, as well as of agnostics and even atheists, is the wholehearted and unqualified acceptance by them all of the divine origin of both Islám and Christianity, of the Prophetic functions of both Muḥammad and Jesus Christ, of the legitimacy of the institution of the Imamate, and of the primacy of St. Peter, the Prince of the Apostles. Such are the central, the solid, the incontrovertible principles that constitute the bedrock of Bahá’í belief, which the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh is proud to acknowledge, which its teachers proclaim, which its apologists defend, which its literature disseminates, which its summer schools expound, and which the rank and file of its followers attest by both word and deed.”
I was not trying to teach you anything.
I did not abbreviate anything. That was the entire verse.
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Oh I see. You want to see that verse in context. Happy to oblige.
John 16
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?
6 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
These verses are Jesus saying that He was going away to heaven, and from heaven he will send the Comforter/Spirit of truth, who was Baha'u'llah, who did all the things that Jesus said in verses 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, and 15.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I know that you won't listen to any Christian accusing you of not believing in Jesus. What nonsense, in my opinion.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Nobody in their right mind would ever want to come back to live in this world after they died so God would not vindicate Jesus' work by raising Him from the dead.
God would never raise any physical bodies from the dead because that would serve absolutely NO purpose, but since God gave everyone free will, God has allowed Christians to believe that for a time, although eventually everyone will know the truth as per Baha'u'llah et al.
As soon as Jesus died He took His flight to the fourth heaven to be at the Right Hand of God. He did not rise from the grave and walk around town.
Below is one of my late husband's favorite passages about Jesus.
“Similarly, call thou to mind the day when the Jews, who had surrounded Jesus, Son of Mary, were pressing Him to confess His claim of being the Messiah and Prophet of God, so that they might declare Him an infidel and sentence Him to death. Then, they led Him away, He Who was the Day-star of the heaven of divine Revelation, unto Pilate and Caiaphas, who was the leading divine of that age. The chief priests were all assembled in the palace, also a multitude of people who had gathered to witness His sufferings, to deride and injure Him. Though they repeatedly questioned Him, hoping that He would confess His claim, yet Jesus held His peace and spake not. Finally, an accursed of God arose and, approaching Jesus, adjured Him saying: “Didst thou not claim to be the Divine Messiah? Didst thou not say, ‘I am the King of Kings, My word is the Word of God, and I am the breaker of the Sabbath day?’” Thereupon Jesus lifted up His head and said: “Beholdest thou not the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power and might?” These were His words, and yet consider how to outward seeming He was devoid of all power except that inner power which was of God and which had encompassed all that is in heaven and on earth. How can I relate all that befell Him after He spoke these words? How shall I describe their heinous behaviour towards Him? They at last heaped on His blessed Person such woes that He took His flight unto the fourth Heaven.” (The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 132-133)
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is complete nonsense, especially because I feel closer to Jesus than I do to Baha'u'llah!
When I cry out in desperation I cry "Help me Jesus, help me God!"
I never say "Help me Baha'u'llah, help me God!"
I feel close to Jesus because of all the wonderful things that Baha'u'llah wrote about Jesus. Go figure.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
@Sgt. Pepper is not a guy. She is one of my best friends and she has plenty of things others should really hear and know about.
I feel privileged that she has confided in me and told me those things.
Feedmysheep
Member
Your pointing out Jesus saying the disciples would see Him no more has to be taken in context.
Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me; because I live, you also shall live. )
In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. (John 14:19,20)
In three days they saw Him again.
First the disciple Mary Magdalene was the first to see Him. But she didn't immediately know it.
When she said these things, she turned backward and beheld Jesus standing there, yet she did not know that it was Jesus. (John 20:14)
Then her eyes both physical and spiritual were made to see that it was Jesus raised.
Jesus said to her, Mary! She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, Rabboni! (which means Teacher).
Jesus said to her, Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brothers and say to them, I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.
Mary the Magdalene came, announcing to the disciples, I have seen the Lord, and that He had said these things to her. (John 20:16-18)
Then in the evening of the same day the 10 disciples saw Him.
And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced at seeing the Lord. (John 20:20)
They told doubting Thomas that they had seen Christ resurrected.
The other disciples therefore said to him, We have seen the Lord! But he said to them, Unless I see in His hands the mark of the nails and put my finger into the mark of the nails and put my hand into His side, I will by no means believe. (John 20:25)
Then skeptical, scientific, doubting Thomas saw Him also.
Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!
Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed. (John 20:28,29)
Of more interest is that Jesus indicated that the WILL of Thomas was needed. He told Thomas to BE believing.
Then He said to Thomas, Bring your finger here and see My hands, and bring your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing. (v. 27)
Then we have the two disciples walking dejectedly down to Emmaus who rushed back to Jerusalem saying they had seen the Lord.
And as He reclined at table with them, He took the loaf and blessed it, and having broken it, He began handing it to them.
And their eyes were opened, and they recognized Him; and He disappeared from them. (Lue 24:30,31)
And some saw Him after His resurrection and wanted to hold of His feet and worship Him.
And behold, Jesus met them, saying, Rejoice! And they came to Him and took hold of His feet and worshipped Him.
Then Jesus said to them, Do not be afraid. Go and report to My brothers that they should go into Galilee, and there they will see Me. (Matt. 28:9,10)
And them others saw Him but among them some saw and still doubted.
And the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus directed them.
And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him, though some doubted. (Matt. 28:16)
So, yes, for a little while from Friday to "the Lord's Day" [aka Sunday], they saw Him no more alive.
Then on the first day of the week they saw Him and greatly rejoiced.
Now let's go back and read about His not being seen for a little while.
Jesus knew that they wanted to ask Him and He said to them, Are you inquiring among yourselves concerning this, that I said, A little while and you do not behold Me, and again a little while and you will see Me?
Truly, truly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy. (John 16:19,20)
How can you saw you believe in Him "wholeheatedly" and teach that He did not resurrect and is presently Lord and Christ?
You're fooling yourself.
What you believe "wholeheartedly" is Baháʼu'lláh teaching of "another Jesus" and "another gospel".
You don't take what the New Testament says.
The another Comforter whom He send is the first Comforter in ANOTHER FORM.
The first Comforter was WITH them. And would be more intimately IN them as the another Comforter.
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever,
Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you.
I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you. (John 14:16-18)
The "He" of verse 17 suddenly becomes the "I" of verse 18.
As a physical man among them He was a Comforter. In His pheumatic form as the Spirit of reality He is the same Person as "another Comforter".
He was with them for three plus years. He is now about to die and rise and also become the indwelling Spirit to be IN themnot leaving them
as forsaken orphans. I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.
His coming TO His believers as the life giving Spirit is for eternity in addition to them beholding Him coming at the end of the age.
the last Adam became a life giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45)
I think you should take this to Christ in prayer and ask for EXPERIENCE of what He talked about.
Jesus said He would manifest Himself from within to those who believed in Him.
He who has My commandments and keeps them, he is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him. (John 14:21)
If you believe that the another Comforter is Baháʼu'lláh show me DEFINITELY with no ambiguity that Baháʼu'lláh
said that he would live in his followers. I do not mean they will hold dear his teaching. I SAID show me the teaching of Baháʼu'lláh
that he would live in his followers.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Especially you wouldn't!
i am touched that this is your late husband's favorite passage about Jesus.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Absolutely not!
I am finally able to talk about him some. My other recent loss seems to have pushed that loss back in my memory.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
i get it.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You are taking it out of context because Jesus was talking about the world seeing him no more, not about the disciples seeing him no more.
If Jesus meant that the disciples would see him Him no more and Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them, then Jesus lied.
Either way you lose. You either have a lying Jesus or you have a Jesus who never rose from the dead and is never going to return to this world.
Because the resurrection is a big fat lie, the biggest lie ever perpetrated upon an unsuspecting humanity.
More and more, people are realizing it is a lie, even Christians.
How many times do I have to tell you that Baháʼu'lláh was not "another Jesus" and His Writings are not "another gospel"???
I have told you three times already.
I do not believe any parts of the New Testament about the resurrection because they are big fat lies.
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever,
The verse says be with you forever. It does not say live inside of you.
Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you.
The world could not receive Baha'u'llah when Jesus spoke those words to His disciples, because it could not behold Him or know Him, since He was not in the world at that time. Jesus said to His disciples that they already know Him, because the same Holy Spirit abides with them and shall be in them, since the disciples had already received the Holy Spirit from Jesus.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Thanks for speaking up for me. I truly appreciate it, my friend. You are one of my best friends, too.
I understand that, too.