Self-criticism in the American Left base

[Valjean]

Yes...interesting.
My question was: don't you think it's time to change things?
To change it into a more leftist party?

Yes. It's time to drop the Democrats' failed affiliation with the technical classes, and return to it's working class base.

The problem is the DNC, then.
Probably taken over by the banking cabal.

There are multiple problems, many stemming from policies and movements initiated decades ago.

 

[Valjean]

How would the Democratic party benefit from becoming more leftist? It would appeal more to leftists and less to moderates.

But who are these Leftists vs moderates? The policies the Republicans denounce as radical leftist are those that surveys indicate have wide support among the general public.
Both the Democrats and the Republicans have become tribalized. They support their teams, but asked about policies in a non-political context, they tend to lean Democratic.

 

[Valjean]

Who are the moderates?
I mean...what is the Democratic Party about, then?

It's about LGBTs and about convincing women to become lesbians because men are all piglets?

Because that's what I hear from them. Only.

I suspect the party leaders wish these lifestyle issues could just be swept under the rug. The media and opposition sensationalize them, and they distract from core policies.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes. It's time to drop the Democrats' failed affiliation with the technical classes, and return to it's working class base.

There are multiple problems, many stemming from policies and movements initiated decades ago.

No...the problem is the DNC.
Because there are winning names out there.

But the DNC is controlled by an élite who doesn't want to win.
They just want to select the perfect warmongering candidates. Servants of the banksters.

 

[Estro Felino]

Its because America is super capitalist. Healthcare then becomes a profit making industry. And staunch capitalists don't like government taking their tax money and spending it on state controlled institutions, like healthcare, because they want people to fend for themselves so that they get to keep more of their money. To them greed trumps altruism. They are apathetic to peoples suffering, that is why they value property and money more than people's lives.

In my country there are so many private clinics.
There is not only the public, state-owned healthcare.

I have met them both.

Private clinics are for wealthy people. People who are very exigent. And the staff there treats you as a money-giver.
They don't see you as a person. More patients = more money.

In public hospitals, the staff is super nice to you, because no matter how many patients there are, their salary won't change.
They treat you as a person.

 

[Samael_Khan]

In my country there are so many private clinics.
There is not only the public, state-owned healthcare.

I have met them both.

Private clinics are for wealthy people. People who are very exigent. And the staff there treats you as a money-giver.
They don't see you as a person. More patients = more money.

In public hospitals, the staff is super nice to you, because no matter how many patients there are, their salary won't change.
They treat you as a person.

We have the same in my country.

Private hospitals can be good but medical aid is expensive and only a few can afford it.

Public hospitals have over worked and disgruntled staff. And doctors are leaving because their salary wont change.

Our government also has problems implementing things and looking after its public institutions.

What our country is doing now is that even the public can go to private hospitals and the government will pay for them. A lot of the upper class hates this though because they believe the hospitals will degrade, but it is most likely that they dont want "dirty poor" people in their spaces.

I think there has to be a balance between public and privater because too much leaning on either side can be disastrous for different reasons. (Such as government stealing money from the public systems - like mine)

 

[Valjean]

It's more likely that Republicans enforce it...
seeing how dems keep welcoming the Big Pharma.

Both parties support whomever supports them. Government policy is a commodity, for sale to the highest donor.
The Neoliberal and 'small government' revolution changed everything. Deregulation, privatization and rulings like Citizens United have privatized Banking, Healthcare, education, housing, pharmaceuticals, &al, facilitating corporate monopolization and soaring prices.

 

[Estro Felino]

Both parties support whomever supports them. Government policy is a commodity, for sale to the highest donor.
The Neoliberal and 'small government' revolution changed everything. Deregulation, privatization and rulings like Citizens United have privatized Banking, Healthcare, education, housing, pharmaceuticals, &al, facilitating corporate monopolization and soaring prices.

In my country people died for certain ideals. Like having better conditions.

If I were an American citizen, I would rather let them kill me, if they don't listen to me about free universal healthcare.

 

[Estro Felino]

We have the same in my country.

Private hospitals can be good but medical aid is expensive and only a few can afford it.

Public hospitals have over worked and disgruntled staff. And doctors are leaving because their salary wont change.

Our government also has problems implementing things and looking after its public institutions.

What our country is doing now is that even the public can go to private hospitals and the government will pay for them. A lot of the upper class hates this though because they believe the hospitals will degrade, but it is most likely that they dont want "dirty poor" people in their spaces.

I think there has to be a balance between public and privater because too much leaning on either side can be disastrous for different reasons. (Such as government stealing money from the public systems - like mine)

The private hospitals are not interested in your healing.
More days of sickness = more money.

The public hospitals want you to heal as fast as possible.

 

[Samael_Khan]

The private hospitals are not interested in your healing.
More days of sickness = more money.

The public hospitals want you to heal as fast as possible.

Yeah. I know a person who was told they had to stay in a private hospital for an extended period even though the proper procedures werent followed for heart issues. They were then given medication that ended up putting them in a coma. I have heard of such cases from this specific private hospital a few times. That is why I don't trust the private ones.

The public ones want people out quickly so they then become negligent, over worked and overwhelmed.

Neither case is good.

 

[Koldo]

The question is where the voters are.
You have about 25% stable GOP voters, 25% stable Dem voters, 10% swing voters and 40% non-voters.
Nobody knows exactly how many of the latter could be motivated by a true centre-left DNC. All we know is that pandering to the swing voters didn't work out for the DNC this time. If they instead concentrate on the non-voters, they need only a third of them and can stand to lose all the swing voters.
Internationally and historically, there seem to be people who are left of the US Overton window, but they are also rather disillusioned.

The underlying premise here is that the stable Dem voters would stick around if the party took a significant turn towards the left. We don't know how many would... However, I do think the unwillingness to change has more to do with not upsetting the money stream, AKA as donors, and influential figures, than electoral prospects.

 

[Koldo]

Well this plainly isn’t true. For an historical example, see the emergence of the Labour Party in the United Kingdom, a grass roots working class movement which replaced the Liberals as the main opposition to Conservatism.

AFAIK, the Labour Party benefited massively from the reform act that more than doubled up the number of people that could vote. It was a very peculiar moment.

I am not saying anything similar couldn't happen in the USA, but it is hard to even imagine what it would take. Maybe if DSA become a majority of the elected politicians in the Democratic party?

Either way, what left-wing candidate could have been voted in 2024's presidental election that had at least a very slim chance of winning?

 

[Wirey]

AFAIK, the Labour Party benefited massively from the reform act that more than doubled up the number of people that could vote. It was a very peculiar moment.

I am not saying anything similar couldn't happen in the USA, but it is hard to even imagine what it would take. Maybe if DSA become a majority of the elected politicians in the Democratic party?

Either way, what left-wing candidate could have been voted in 2024's presidental election that had at least a very slim chance of winning?

Exactly. Imagine if a Justin Trudeau or a Bernie Sanders had been running for the Democrats. Trump would have picked up 60% of the vote, easy.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Let's pretend I am an American citizen.
Why should I vote for the democratic party?
Convince me.

It's not the Trumpian party.

 

[Heyo]

Exactly. Imagine if a Justin Trudeau or a Bernie Sanders had been running for the Democrats. Trump would have picked up 60% of the vote, easy.

When was the last time the Dems ran a left leaning candidate? 1932? They might want to try again, just to see if it still works.
What could go more wrong than now, they lost to Donald ****ing Trump.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

We have the same in my country.

Private hospitals can be good but medical aid is expensive and only a few can afford it.

Public hospitals have over worked and disgruntled staff. And doctors are leaving because their salary wont change.

Not the case at all over here. "public" hospitals are usually the hospitals that are also part of university complexes. They'll generally have the best doctors, many times even world-renown in their area of expertise.

Next to the hospital work, they'll oftenly also have their own private practice where they do consultations and stuff.

So the general rule over here kind of is:
If you want a hospital with okay / mediocre care where you feel like you are sleeping in a 5-star hotel, then go to a private hospital.
If you want a hospital with the best care and the best doctors, you go to a public hospital, swallow your snobbish pride and accept that you might share a room with a random citizen of any of the many walks of life.


I'll choose the best care any time. Regardless of being able to pay the 5-star hotel or not.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In my country people died for certain ideals. Like having better conditions.

If I were an American citizen, I would rather let them kill me, if they don't listen to me about free universal healthcare.

Curious how you proudly say you would rather be killed then not have free healthcare in the US, but you judge Ukrainians for choosing to rather be killed then to not have a free anything.

 

[Estro Felino]

Curious how you proudly say you would rather be killed then not have free healthcare in the US, but you judge Ukrainians for choosing to rather be killed then to not have a free anything.

If they are so willing to die for a cause...why didn't the comedian make the recruiting voluntary?

 

[Estro Felino]

It's not the Trumpian party.

Because he dared say he loves vagina 20 years ago or something?

It would have been shocking, if he had said he loved penis.

 

[Wirey]

Because he dared say he loves vagina 20 years ago or something?

It would have been shocking, if he had said he loved penis.

Meh, considering the low opinion he seems to have of females, not that shocking.