• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Self-realization/Enlightenment question.

Twilight

Member
This happened to me once. It is really imposible to explain.

I think in en it is called "zatori" and is basically a little glimpse of liberation, a moment of brightness.

I do remember after feeling it it all felt...dull, and kinda cloudy.


Lifes weird :eek:

Did it never happen again?! Nice isn't it :)

You will also feel that everything is perfect and the pleasure and pain cannot reach you. You are in bliss - a type of ananda, peace and fullness that cannot be explained. Sat-Chit-Ananda.

EDIT: the ananda nda the perfect-ness that you see in you is also in others. All are perfect. their actions do not have any influence on you.

Aum
Amrut

I like the way you describe things :) Have you have experienced the same feelings?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Yah never again.

It was really cool. It was like overwhelming though. It felt like it collapsed or somethng xD its hard to exlain xD
 

Amrut

Aum - Advaita
I have done chakra meditation a couple of times before and found it to be a very good. I have been thinking lately that I would like to perform it again. When I did it before my whole body felt like it had energy surging through it and I was involuntarily moving back and forth because of the energy. Is this normal with chakra meditation?

it is normal. but if you simply focus on heart chakra, then everything will be lighter. Not as heavy as when oyu chant the mantra in mind or in 3rd eye.

I would say that my feeling was more like a deep peace than anything else. It just felt like how I should feel natuarally when fear, anger. happiness, etc disappears.

I understand. I had that feeling too. that too in waking state. no worries. it is a good sign :)

I will definitely continue in my path to 'find' god. I am slightly worried that if I reach the destination I will lose what I have. I know this is attachment but it is attachment to my duties as a parent etc rather than more selfish attachments. As I implied previously, I am assuming that in giving oneself over to God does not mean that I have to go and live in a cave and meditate forever... just that my focus will always be on God rather than the mundane... is this correct?

Everyone has attachments. As surrender will gradually increases, God will make you understand. He will change the mindset of your family and will show you the correct path. Initially you will have to stay firm and do not leave the path just because someone dear to you is compelling. The experience you had will make it easier to convince yourself.

detachment is mental. you can keep money, stay with wife and kids. it cannot be explained, but experienced. Recollect the experience you had. did you just sit and stop doing work did you stopped breathing. Things worked as they were. The change was within you. your perception had changed. Just have faith. you are going towards god. Nothing will harm you. Everything will be fine. trust god. Just focus on God, everything else will fade away.

Aum
Amrut
 

Maya3

Well-Known Member
I think it is possible to "loose" for lack of a better word realization.
Unless you are a monk living silently by yourself. It is very, very hard to live in the real world, go to work, eat, sleep, pay your bills, spend time with your family at the same time as you have a deep meditation practice.

I think you will get glimpses, and moments of deep realization. But you cannot stay in this stage and experience this with each meditation and still have a normal family life. We are too busy, there are too many distractions.

It sounds like you are experiencing some kundalini movement. Take it slow. Don't force anything. You don't want this to happen too fast, it will come slowly on it's own.

Maya
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
jai jai , jainarayan


glimpses, ... of reality :yes:

Here's another take on it, not to get carried away with the concept, but I sometimes get a feeling of being separate, not within "myself" or what I see around me. To use the cliché literally: "I am not myself", or what I think is myself. It's as if what I'm seeing is paintings from the inside of an eggshell, and the eggshell can crack at any time. Everything I see will disappear, though I don't know what is on the other side. I fully recognize and admit that this could simply be weird brain activity.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Although I was still aware of being in my body and was going about my daily life as usual I felt a disassociation with it. Being in my body was just a formality because I could feel how I was connected to everyone and everything.

See my post above... I get the same feeling.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hello :)

I have a question that has been bothering me.

Can you attain 'self-realization' or 'enlightenment' for a brief period or is it a once you have it you can't lose it kind of thing?
I see it as a matter of terminology. Many people think once you hit enlightenment then that's it, no where else to go, everything is done. I hardly believe that is true. It is the beginning of living in Freedom and exploring the ever-changing world within that freedom. We don't stop growing at enlightenment. We are simply free from the illusion of a separate self.

Can someone have an experience of that Freedom, and then fall back into the world where we were before? Sure, of course. But you are changed. You now know this world, how you saw yourself and others within it before, is an illusion, as you have now seen it free from that, as it is. But, you don't yet know how to live your daily life within that Freedom. You haven't learned to integrate that momentary perceptual clarity you experienced. You cannot simply move from being some guy pushing a fish cart thinking about how his neighbor angers him with all that loud hammering he does each night, to a Saint or a Sage who can walk on water in a blink of an eye!

But what has happened is an opening into what you now know is there for you. The rest is a matter of intention, dedication, devotion, and practice toward realizing that into your daily life, slogging your way through each stage of growth you need to pass until you are mature enough to handle that Illumination in your body in every moment. To suddenly have the illuminated soul of a sage when you are young and undeveloped, would be damaging to you. Your ego would not know how to handle it and become all inflated and do spiritual damage to yourself. Every step towards that is a preparation of the body and mind to be able to integrate that into permanent realization.

But yes, people have these peak experiences all the time. Most just ignore them or dismiss them because they don't know how to deal with it and bury them in the sand of their subconscious minds as they aren't ready to begin their path towards enlightenment. Others are forever altered, and seek enlightenment with all their heart and soul and will. I'm one of the latter, and it sounds like you are as well. There are states of experience you will have on your way, and then there are stages of growth.
 
Last edited:

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Namaste,

1. Self Realization si permanent and cannot be lost says Sri Ramana Maharshi

2. About the feeling

In Bhagavad Gita, in the beginning i.e. chapter 2:55 - 2:59, ther esi a description of sthita prajna.

Now, why in 2 chapter? why not in 18th chapter? one should get knowledge at the end. Right. But thats not the case. First God shows you the trailer and then the actual movie starts. To reach a place, you will need a map. So God in meditation and in actual experience will teach you your next level.

What you have experience may have been a shift in consciousness. Your mind will be calm and peaceful and nothing will bother you. Life is a happening. Everything just flows. If this is what you feel, then it is a good feeling.

Note that experiences are given by god means

1. You deserve to reach that state.

2. To give clarity - Giving / having experience is the best way to remove doubt and teach.

3. For Inspiration: If God does not give such experience, no one will meditate. So before that experience, when you are not expecting anything special and hopes are low and that your life is not so good and you are hitting lower tide of your life. Suddenly, one day you have this experience. This also shows:

4. God can do anything and everything.

5. Thoughts and issues, which were so difficult to remove or get over it, suddenly disappear. So God is all powerful and can handle you. God can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. Nothing binds him, nothing stops him.

6. Benchmark or reference is necessary to set a milestone. So next time you will try to reach this state. That will be the driving force. This type of meditation provides the 'Longing' for God. Longing is so necessary, else without it, things are all mechanical.

7. Since you cannot stay in this state permanently, as your mind is still impure, you cannot stay there for ever.

If you have read Sri Ramakrishna's Jivan charitra. Sri Ramakrishna had vision of Maa Kali. But After that he did not had it daily. So he meditated and prayed hard to again have this experience. After much intense mediation sessions, he had a glimpse of her. Not satisfied with just glimpses, he continued to mediate, each time with a greater force of love and surrender. With pain of separation getting unbearable. He could now have her vision more frequently with less effort. Later he did not have to meditate to have the vision of her, Maa Kali was always with him.

Aum
Amrut
This was beautifully put. I agree with how you put the 7 points. The only thing I will stress in this from experience, is that it is good to desire, but the seeking should be for illumination and not not necessary something you have told yourself to expect. It is as you say a process of constant surrender, and part of that surrender is to simple allow what is to be given, to be given. If you are looking for something you expect, then you are not open to receive. If any expectation, it should be that God will meet you as you surrender.
 

Amrut

Aum - Advaita
This was beautifully put. I agree with how you put the 7 points. The only thing I will stress in this from experience, is that it is good to desire, but the seeking should be for illumination and not not necessary something you have told yourself to expect. It is as you say a process of constant surrender, and part of that surrender is to simple allow what is to be given, to be given. If you are looking for something you expect, then you are not open to receive. If any expectation, it should be that God will meet you as you surrender.

Thank you for your kind words. I agree with what you say.


Regarding not to expect anything - I have told in another post, that do not meditate with expectation that you should have this experience.

--

I always ask the question WHY? Why this upadesha is given. Not all upadesha is applicable to all. Not Whole of Gita can be understood and implemented.

To cut short. I understand what you say. Moksha is the desire and great illusion. But to remove this illusion of bondage, one has to take support of moksha.

After one has emptied all desires and thoughts from mind. One desire remains - I want moksha. This has to be uprooted to. So now the updesha is given. Who is the meditator? who are you?, etc. Then a matured sadhaka will quit this thought - I want Moksha, and will enter into samadhi.

One is not steady in samadhi until mind is destroyed. Sri Ramana Maharshi has experienced complete separateness. But he did not stop there and opened an ashram to preach non-duality. He meditated for many years until he was steady in SELF and there was no more need to meditate.

Ashtavakra Gita says this kind of stuff. So it is not for everybody. But today, even commentaries on brahma sutra, upanishads are available. Only person who is steady in Self should write a commentary and that too if he gets direct orders from God. But here most commentaries are written from intellectual level and hence cannot uplift you to nirvikalp samadhi. Feeling inspiration and thinking that I am getting inspiration is not enough says Sri Ramakrishna. God has to appear before you and order you to write commentary and give discourses. Even shankaracharya wrote commentary on brahma sutra after Lord Shiva (in form of chandala) came, tested and then ordered him to write commentary. It is alsi said that ved vyasa gave 16 more years to shankara. He even tested shankra's knowledge and his commentary on brahma sutra. After that adi shankara wanted to quit body, but it was Ved Vyasa who told him to walk length and breath of India and preached True advaita.

Same was with Sri Ramakrishna and Sri Ramana Maharshi. They never interacted with any one during sadhana days. Same was with Buddha bhagavan. Only after establishing themselves steadily in Brahman, and after order form God, they began to teach or preach.

Some upadeshas are only for advanced seekers and not for laymen. What will happen to a person who has just started his spiritual journey, never experienced detachment and is in sarira bhava, if the upadesha is told that - 'Who is the one who is meditating' - It is a disaster waiting to happen. He may leave his puja-path, etc and do as he pleases.

--

The thing is - if you are totally surrendered to God, God will definitely show you a step further, show you correct way, change / correct the path and will take care of you. So do not worry, just go for it.

--

As per my understanding, the OP is not having any experience of Self Realization. It is a divine experience but not of the ultimate truth - the advaita sthiti. So no question of falling up and down. It is all or none theory. Either you are realized or you are not.

As I have said, having a glimpse and being steady in Self are 2 different things. One is not a Jivan mukta if one is not effortlessly steady in Self and requires no process or any kriya or any need to meditate.

Aum
Amrut
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
After one has emptied all desires and thoughts from mind. One desire remains - I want moksha. This has to be uprooted to. So now the updesha is given. Who is the meditator? who are you?, etc. Then a matured sadhaka will quit this thought - I want Moksha, and will enter into samadhi.
To describe it in my words as I have experienced this, what occurs as that the object of this desire, call it heaven, call it God, dissolves into you. It is no longer you reaching, communing, listening, learning from God, but there is nothing rising in the mind any more, and you just open your eyes and see. You are finished meditating, but not in a returning to the seeker who started meditation, but awakened through meditation into the world, into reality. Every flame of the candles are a living soul, air generates light in every molecule, a bird sings and there is life in everything, silence surrounds all activity, etc.

But this does not remain permanent and subsides through time, but you have seen the potential of who you are to be realized. And each time you meditate is a further lesson towards realizing this as you uncover subtler and subtler understandings of reality in yourself. Step by step.

One is not steady in samadhi until mind is destroyed. Sri Ramana Maharshi has experienced complete separateness. But he did not stop there and opened an ashram to preach non-duality. He meditated for many years until he was steady in SELF and there was no more need to meditate.
I have asked myself is there a time when you wouldn't need to meditate anymore. I think this answers this.

But here most commentaries are written from intellectual level and hence cannot uplift you to nirvikalp samadhi.
I would agree with this within any tradition. I have a saying I came up with not long ago where I said, "Theology is our mind's last-ditch effort to understand God before we fail, and do". Intellectual models of reality are academic and interesting, but fail to take us to realization. There has to be Light within the words.

The thing is - if you are totally surrendered to God, God will definitely show you a step further, show you correct way, change / correct the path and will take care of you. So do not worry, just go for it.
It truly is a process of overcoming fear. Often, what is felt exposed is so immense we hide ourselves from it in one way or another. But it is in emptying ourselves in trust into that that we pass beyond that fear into Truth.

As per my understanding, the OP is not having any experience of Self Realization. It is a divine experience but not of the ultimate truth - the advaita sthiti. So no question of falling up and down. It is all or none theory. Either you are realized or you are not.
I would say it is the same wetness experienced that is in every wave, but to have the mind embraced by That fully, is what is that Realization.

As I have said, having a glimpse and being steady in Self are 2 different things. One is not a Jivan mukta if one is not effortlessly steady in Self and requires no process or any kriya or any need to meditate.

Aum
Amrut
I agree. But as you said, that glimpse, that opening, is a brilliant call.
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Thank you ratikala :namaste:

Yes, this makes sense to me. I like the analogy you give. It describes the feeling well... the 'realising the true brilliance of the sun' isn't just seeing the light of it but also the feeling of warmth that suddenly enshrouds you. :)

:namaste

itis experiences such as these that cause a person to attatch to any sadhana (of their choosing) which gives a method of attatching one self to god and detatching oneself from their previous worldly concerns and preocupations .
Detaching literally or metaphorically? If I had to detach literally I think I would have to stick with the mundane life. When I felt like this I still felt I had duties to my family etc and a deep sense of love for them but it was no longer the selfish love that I usually feel. I guess that it the kind of detachment that is required...?
detatching metaphoricaly , :namaste in truth what one is doing is attatcing importance to a dharmic veiw of things and detatching from the worldly conception of self importance , this does not mean detatchng from ones family responcibilities it actualy gives one the insight to be a better wife , a better mother ,and a better human being .
no one would suggest renununciation it is not nececary , that chioce comes later in life when ones duties are done .

this is simply a matter of dealing with the daily requirements of life in a proportionate manner doing ones duty but seeing a larger picture , understanding ones true responcibilitys and taking pride in performing them , having a higher understanding often helps in finding the correct path through what are the often difficult descisions that occur in daily life , giving the strength , motivation and the reasoning that can sometimes be missing .





I will definitely continue in my path to 'find' god. I am slightly worried that if I reach the destination I will lose what I have. I know this is attachment but it is attachment to my duties as a parent etc rather than more selfish attachments. As I implied previously, I am assuming that in giving oneself over to God does not mean that I have to go and live in a cave and meditate forever... just that my focus will always be on God rather than the mundane... is this correct?
:) do not worry you will lose nothing that is not replaced by something far more valuable to yourself and to your family , when you find the answers you are seeking you will loose only the negative emotional attatchments to the ideas and expectations of family and family responcibilities , what you will gain is the clear mindedness to be a better parent and the deepest most meaningfull love for all family and freinds ,
I know this is attachment but it is attachment to my duties as a parent etc rather than more selfish attachments.
it is in a way attatchment to our ignorance , we fear the concequences of change so we remain attatched to the position we are in , yet nothing remains static , once one has become interested to find god , once one has realised his existance , it is only a natural progression to wish to further that understanding , but our fear of the unknown allways trys to hold us back , it tries to throw shadows of doubt :( one has to remember that this fear is so attatched to its present position that it will put many seemingly convincing arguements in your path , but once one has experienced that briliance that lays beyond , one will always be drawn to experience and understand that expansiveness again .


your focus will be god and the benifits of that focus will be a blessing for you to share with your fammily :namaste
 

no-body

Well-Known Member
I will go against the majority and say since enlightenment is a timeless state that we have initially forgotten I do believe it is indeed possible to "reforget" and fall back into time. To say the self realization can never be forgotten is technically true but it is mostly poetry. The memory of enlightenment is not enlightenment.
 

Onkara

Well-Known Member
Adi Shankaracharya also indicates the state isn't permanent or there is a risk of being distracted:


Important Advaitic texts, such as Pañcadasi (e.g. Chapter 7 verses 125 - 127) and Vivekachudamani (e.g. verses 327 - 329) speak of the risk of being distracted or falling, but also assert that this is temporal and with remedy of return. ref
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
Adi Shankaracharya also indicates the state isn't permanent or there is a risk of being distracted:

Vivekachudamani (e.g. verses 327 - 329) speak of the risk of being distracted or falling, but also assert that this is temporal and with remedy of return. ref

I disagree with the interpretation on this verses.

Verses 325-326 talks about folks who identify with the object universe. Beginning of 327 says there is nothing worse for a knower of Brahman. The next few verses go onto talk about people who practice concentration who deviate from there true nature who fall.

Verse 336 is very clear that it is talking about seekers not knowers of Brahman.
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram onkara ji ,[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]:namaste[/FONT]

Adi Shankaracharya also indicates the state isn't permanent or there is a risk of being distracted:

however the bakti yogi who has devloped love of god who exists in a state of prema , whos mind is fixed on the lord never falls down :namaste

Important Advaitic texts, such as Pañcadasi (e.g. Chapter 7 verses 125 - 127) and Vivekachudamani (e.g. verses 327 - 329) speak of the risk of being distracted or falling, but also assert that this is temporal and with remedy of return. ref

there is allways the possibility that one may fall down if ones realisation is gained through aquired knowledge , but when ones realisation is through the heart one never falls down .

one who see me everywhere , and sees everything in me , I am never lost , nor is he ever lost to me . bhagavad gita ch ..6 V ..30 .:bow:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] [/FONT]
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Although I'm a Hindu bhaktar, and occasionally have mystical events happen, I refuse to even try to make attempts at commenting on something that goes beyond the intellect. Generally it ends in argument, and since I know nothing at all, other than a few regurgitated words, it only adds fuel to the fire.

I do believe, however, that I have been in the presence of a few self-realised beings, and that true self-realised beings are incredibly rare.
 
Top