Separation of families at the border

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It becomes a issue of who do we let slide by and who do we not.

And I think it is rather more an issue of what is a living creature permitted to do in order to ensure its survival. Under what "law" are you required to resign yourself to death?

 

[We Never Know]

And I think it is rather more an issue of what is a living creature permitted to do in order to ensure its survival. Under what "law" are you required to resign yourself to death?

If for example hungry people are allowed to slide, guess what, there will be more people claiming to be hungry and expecting a pass.

 

[shmogie]

They can go with people and organizations that are willing to sponsor them as in concordance with the law you despise

They can go with people and organizations that are willing to sponsor them as in concordance with the law you despise

Nope, nice try. They are in the country illegally. They have no right to go anywhere. Any organization or person who aids them has also broken they law.

Now, what makes you think I despise l the law in question ?

I hate the constant and continuous abuse of the law.

Why must you always make a personal comment about someo e who disagrees with you ?

Do you not have any understanding about what debate means ? It is about ideas, not personal sniping.

Why don't you give up the personal stuff, and stick to the rules

 

[shmogie]

And future generations -- many who cannot yet vote (you know, "no taxation without representation!") -- are going to pay for much of it.

And if, as you say, the middle class benefitted, what about those who were more in need? How did they benefit?

They don't pay taxes.

Obama doubled the national debt in 8 years. The tax cut is about an eighth of that.

Any of it is bad, yet it came about primarily by giving money away, with no lasting effect.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nah, Jesus and I are just drinking buddies. That's all.

OK then.
Be sure to take away his car keys when he gets the way he does.

 

[Revoltingest]

Other philosophers have argued that one of the things most likely to happen in a democracy is voting yourselves the proceeds of other people's money...without their agreement. As your own Benjamin Franklin said, “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

I think that's a different line of thought.
But yes, I've noticed that risk factor too.

 

[Father Heathen]

OK then.
Be sure to take away his car keys when he gets the way he does.

Eh, I'll leave that to you. It's a case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde when he's had a few too many.

 

[suncowiam]

Is it ethical and moral to overlook the hungry person stealing food?
Should we just overlook the fact they broke the law?
What's next, only punish people who can afford it?

You specifically didn't mention the scenario that I brought up.

Is it ethical and moral to overlook the situation of a dying person stealing because of hunger. This is basically starvation.

Yes, I suggest it is. Are you saying, you wouldn't break any laws if you were in such a situation?

We don't overlook that they are breaking the laws. We then realize that our laws are inadequate and need revision for multiple cases of stealing.

 

[Shad]

They actually can't. In order to apply for asylum or refugee status you have to be on US soil proper. You actually have to be across the border and in the country, not at the at or across from the border but you have to cross over into it in order to apply.

One can apply at a port of entry according to US law which is US soil.

 

[Shad]

How about having refugee NGOs run the concentration camps and let the UN look into the matter? Since this an international issue

US is not party to UN 51 convention thus the UN is irrelevant as US law is paramount. The US has repeatedly rejected turning over any part of it's sovereignty to the UN. This would be such a case. The US can still veto anything the UN does anyways. Beside that the UN has a credibility issue.

 

[Rise]

So you're saying, "we're not going to allow others to do as we did unto others?"

The premise of your question itself is hypocritical. You cannot act as though others are wrong for not wanting America to commit suicide if you yourself are unwilling to first take the position that America should commit suicide. Otherwise you're being a hypocrit for questioning others for believing the exact same thing you already believe.

You first need to answer my original question posed to you before you ask a new one:
"Are you saying you want to see America destroyed and most of it's population wiped out like the native American nations were?"

Because whether or not you even have the ability to ask your question without being a hypocrit depends first on how you answer the original question I posed to you.

Unless you're willing to admit that you advocate such a policy precisely because you know it will destroy America.
In which case all your question is doing is implying that you think America deserves to be destroyed.
Is that a position you're willing to take publicly? It certainly seems like these days more on the left are willing to come right out and say that's basically what they believe and want.

But if you can't first establish that America deserves to be destroyed, or should be destroyed, then you have no logical basis for questioning why someone would take for granted that it would be a bad thing to allow a policy that would destroy America the way other nations have been destroyed. Otherwise your question just becomes irrelevant posturing because you yourself aren't even willing to take the position that one should purposely do something they know will destroy themselves on the basis of carrying out self inflicted punishment for what someone else did 400 years ago that they may not even be related to.

 

[We Never Know]

You specifically didn't mention the scenario that I brought up.

Is it ethical and moral to overlook the situation of a dying person stealing because of hunger. This is basically starvation.

Yes, I suggest it is. Are you saying, you wouldn't break any laws if you were in such a situation?

We don't overlook that they are breaking the laws. We then realize that our laws are inadequate and need revision for multiple cases of stealing.

I never said I wouldn't. Yet it's breaking the law.

 

[Shad]

Nope, nice try. They are in the country illegally. They have no right to go anywhere. Any organization or person who aids them has also broken they law.

Now, what makes you think I despise l the law in question ?

I hate the constant and continuous abuse of the law.

Why must you always make a personal comment about someo e who disagrees with you ?

Do you not have any understanding about what debate means ? It is about ideas, not personal sniping.

Why don't you give up the personal stuff, and stick to the rules

People can still claim asylum while being in the US within a year. That is how the system is being gamed.

 

[shmogie]

People can still claim asylum while being in the US within a year. That is how the system is being gamed.

Absolutely. Nevertheless, not going to a port of entry to make an asylum claim, and just crossing the border in the middle of the desert is an illegal act.

Most who apply will not be granted asylum, and will be shipped home. Something like 95%. They are economic migrants, they ar not fleeing persecution because of race, religion, or political affiliation.

They are coming because they want the dinero, simple as that.

Most know they will be sent home of if their asylum claim is heard, but they laugh at that.

They either cross illegally and hunt for a Border Patrol agent to detain them, so they can go to a detention facility, where they will be released in a short time with a notice to appear. They disappear and are never heard from again.

Or, they just cut out the middle man, cross illegally, and disappear.

Then they are set, sanctuary states, welfare, medical care, food stamps or free food from charitable food banks, housing allowances, they cut lawns or pick crops and are paid cash under the table, and they don´t pay taxes.

Thank you, American taxpayer, we will be getting our extended family in, and you can take care of them too !!

The Border Patrol this year has apprehended illegals from 52 countries, God only knows how many got through.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The premise of your question itself is hypocritical. You cannot act as though others are wrong for not wanting America to commit suicide if you yourself are unwilling to first take the position that America should commit suicide. Otherwise you're being a hypocrite for questioning others for believing the exact same thing you already believe.

You first need to answer my original question posed to you before you ask a new one:
"Are you saying you want to see America destroyed and most of it's population wiped out like the native American nations were?"
Because whether or not you even have the ability to ask your question without being a hypocrit depends first on how you answer the original question I posed to you.
Unless you're willing to admit that you advocate such a policy precisely because you know it will destroy America.
In which case all your question is doing is implying that you think America deserves to be destroyed.
Is that a position you're willing to take publicly? It certainly seems like these days more on the left are willing to come right out and say that's basically what they believe and want.
But if you can't first establish that America deserves to be destroyed, or should be destroyed, then you have no logical basis for questioning why someone would take for granted that it would be a bad thing to allow a policy that would destroy America the way other nations have been destroyed. Otherwise your question just becomes irrelevant posturing because you yourself aren't even willing to take the position that one should purposely do something they know will destroy themselves on the basis of carrying out self inflicted punishment for what someone else did 400 years ago that they may not even be related to.

I do not wish to see anybody, or any nation, destroyed. Nor do I think that the past can be amended -- the past is the past. That does not, however, mean that decent and fair-minded people cannot look diligently for ways to mitigate the unfairness under which a large number of people still live.

Over 500 treaties were signed between the US Government and native communities, mostly for land cessations, but all 500 were also nullified, by the government, whenever it suited the government's agenda. Why not start with trying to abide by a few of the more recent ones, and then start working slowly, diligently, pragmatically -- but with at least good will and an honest heart -- from there? Is that not what a truly "Christian" people would dearly want to do? Or is there still more to be taken away before the conquerors are completely satisfied?

 

[SugarOcean]

There is a lot of ginned up angst about adults and children being separated at the border. Most of these occur with those who have crossed the border illegally to enter the US.

There are firm legal reasons why this happens, but these are not important to the point of this post.

Many thousands of families are separated every day in the US, and no one gives it a thought.

Virtually every time someone is placed in jail, they are separated from their family. In many cases, where their is a single parent household, that parent is denied to their children. Many times these parents stay in jail till their trial, where they are found innocent

Tough, just part of the system, right ? Who cares ?

Once again, illegal aliens and their plight for committing a crime is paramount, and American citizens are ignored.

Who is responsible for these families ( if they truly are related ) being separated ?


The illegal aliens who dragged them thousands of miles solely to break American law.

The democrats decry the conditions at the border, yet they encourage and empower the masses coming here by making no effort to address the extremely serious flaws in the immigration system. They then wring their hands because their lack of action has created the swamping of detention facilities, and subsequent poor conditions, for political purposes.

The next time you become apoplectic about so called family separation, think about the many single mothers and fathers sitting in jail for misdemeanors, and ask yourself why illegal aliens are more important to you, than they.

If no one gives it a thought it is likely because they don't understand that entering a country illegally is a crime. In America it is a federal offense to be prosecuted in federal court.

There is no policy that dictates illegals entering the U.S. are to be immediately separated from their kids. The reason people who enter the U.S with minor children have those children removed from their custody is because, the parents are breaking federal law and are to be federally detained and prosecuted.
And minor children are not allowed to be detained in federal prisons.


Furthermore, it is a good thing in that what is also forgotten is that human trafficking , minor children are not an exception, is an issue at our border as well. Which is why there is a new policy in place to perform DNA checks on minor children in the company of an adult(s).

That was then, in as far as separation of illegals with minor children. That was a policy in effect for 60 years.
See, it is a crime to enter a country illegally. It is a privilege to enter a nation. Not a right.
This is now: Last updated June 20, 2019
After outcry, Trump signs order that will stop separations and detain families together

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1260296771507/

 

[fantome profane]

This is now: Last updated June 20, 2019
After outcry, Trump signs order that will stop separations and detain families together

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1260296771507/

Look closer. That story was posted in 2018, a year ago. It was more than a year ago that Trump signed an executive order to stop separating children from their parents. And it has not stopped.

 

[SugarOcean]

Look closer. That story was posted in 2018, a year ago. It was more than a year ago that Trump signed an executive order to stop separating children from their parents. And it has not stopped.

Look closer, besides my post, the article was updated 7 days ago.

 

[Enoch07]

They aren't illegal aliens, they are asylum seekers and refugees who have committed no crime. You are heartless and cruel.

Crossing the border illegally is a crime.

If they were Asulum seekers they should have come through a recognized port of entry.

 

[SugarOcean]

What would Jesus do?

Ciao

- viole

What is a trespass in the Bible?