Servants - yes or no?

[nnmartin]

If I make $50 per hour and it takes me 4 hours to clean my house then I may value my time for cleaning as say $200 why not pay someone $100 to clean the house and have 2 hours of leisure, or work an extra 2 hours at my job.

ok, so why is your labour worth $50 per hour to clean , but someone else's is only worth $10.

what makes you so special here?

is your life 5 times more important than a maid's , because that is basically what you are saying.

 

[ron4711]

ok, so why is your labour worth $50 per hour to clean , but someone else's is only worth $10.

what makes you so special here?

is your life 5 times more important than a maid's , because that is basically what you are saying.

I think you do not understand economics.

 

[Nashitheki]

that sure is true.

What I have noticed in this thread (and others), is that once the Lords and Ladies realise they cannot convert you to their exploitative way of thinking then they do one of these things:

1. Name calling
2. Have a hissy fit
3. Leave the thread in a huff
4. Assert that you have no idea about things

Or put a label upon someone.

Regardless, let them have their domestic servants or haughty gentry status, that is as long as their standing and money holds out. Things can change at the drop of a hat.

 

[nnmartin]

yes, the lack of funds is a great leveller - you are only whatever your wallet will support after all.

I had an interesting experience several years back when I visited Argentina just after the banking crisis.

There it would be common to see ex-rich, but still haughty, old ladies riding the public buses - looking seriously out of place and scowling at the world.

where were their chauffeurs then?

 

[Reverend Rick]

ok, so why is your labour worth $50 per hour to clean , but someone else's is only worth $10.

what makes you so special here?

is your life 5 times more important than a maid's , because that is basically what you are saying.

Geeze Martin, you don't think a person who can operate cyber knife would be more productive doing what they do best rather than cleaning their own toliet?

You don't think a person who does a perfect job of cleaning and does not steal is worth 50 bucks an hour?

It is about supply and demand. You fail to understand the dignity of labor. I want someone who is going to show up on time and perform their service correctly.

I don't want a 10 dollar an hour person doing a substandard job and wondering what happened to my Rolex.

 

[4consideration]

reasons such as:

Physical inability to cope with the household chores, due to age, disability or illness.

Having a large number of children

Required as official staff in a work capacity

It seems as though you are saying that it would be alright for government officials (Kings and Queens) to have servants, just not regular folk.

You have previously mentioned (in post #23) that you do not wish to support the return of a pseudo feudalism -- but I think that is exactly where your ideas are heading.

It sure sounds like you want to be King of the World, and are taking the position that your ideas of how it should be are more important than how things actually work, and what actually benefits or harms real human beings.

You support ideas that take power away from the individual about things that directly affect that individual (and no one else) then place that power into the hands of a "ruling class of people."

Instead of using a justification of Divine Right of Kings, your philosophy empowers Divine Right of Government Official -- same methods and same end result -- domination of the masses by a few, done under the guise of "caring" for them.

You advocate a system that would force people who are now caring for themselves, to starve -- in order to serve your agenda -- and you seem to feel morally superior while doing so. How very noble!

 

[Revoltingest]

me,me,me,me,me,me!
oh, and I forgot to say, me!
justification enough for you for sure, because it suits you to have a servant.
me,me,me,me,me,me!
oh, and I forgot to say, me!

Well, of course!
I don't hire help to benefit you.
Sounds, like someone is really really jealous.

ok, so why is your labour worth $50 per hour to clean , but someone else's is only worth $10.
what makes you so special here?
is your life 5 times more important than a maid's , because that is basically what you are saying.

Aha! We begin to clearly see why you want wages & labor controlled.
You suffer from the illusion that a person's life is worth only the wage they command.
Actually, the wage is merely the economic value of a particular service.
So I have some advice:
You can't solve your personal ego problems by limiting the liberty of others.
Come to terms with your envy & fear of those with means....you'll be happier.
Perhaps you could even become successful too!
No need to thank me...I'm here to help.

 

[dawny0826]

What do you think of the idea of having servants?

If you could afford it , would you have them?

I am thinking of servants such as butlers, cleaners, chefs, door openers etc..

Would you really want to have these people in your home attending to your every need, and what do you think of those people that have such staff?

another question, should they be allowed at all in the first place?

I don't like the idea of a butler or door opener but if I had the money and could justify it, I wouldn't mind paying someone to clean and keep my house organized and tend to my yard (I hate mowing & raking!).

I hate doing these things and paying someone else to do them, frees me, when I'm not working, to spend time with family and to focus on more enjoyable things.

 

[Kathryn]

ok, so if the maid only works part time at $10/hr then how does she manage to support herself financially?

Not many people can work part time at any job and support themselves financially. Why wouldn't the maid work full time like most other people expect to do in order to support themselves?

 

[blackout]

You can't support yourSelf on $10 an hour FULL time.

Certainly not with children, anyway.

Maybe on your own I guess, if you live VERY sparsely.

 

[Kathryn]

That is just crony capitalist claptrap.

How can you just 'find a new job' whenever you feel like an improvement?

that is not how reality works.

I've always, ALWAYS been able to "just find a new job" whenever I felt like an improvement. I've never gone a single day without a job involuntarily.

But then - I have marketable skills. No college degree, but a great work ethic and work history, good professional and character references, happy customers, etc.

 

[Kathryn]

What about the chauffeur, cook, nanny, butler and the rest of the lackeys like those who fan away the heat when you're entertaining outside or carry you around on a litter when you're inspecting the grounds ?

Are they here in the states legally ?

I don't have any of those guys. But I might if the need arises.

They can call me by my first name too.

 

[Kathryn]

not rude at all, and I think that was a very valid point.

Many servants come from south of the border because employers know that they can pay them less, treat them worse and threaten them with the authorities and visa status if the levels of subservience are not high enough.

Those employers run the very real risk of getting in some very hot water legally. Here in Texas the INS raids businesses on a regular basis, and it's the business owners who are in deep doo doo when that raid goes down, if they've hired illegal aliens.

I don't knowingly hire illegal aliens. There are some really good fake IDs out there though.

Just for the record, I support the rights of people to move to the US for better opportunity, and if they are willing to work, their road to legal immigration needs to be streamlined. Some of the most successful business people (and business owners) in my area are immigrants from Mexico and Central America. More power to 'em. In fact, I use their services as often as possible, for several reasons. One - they tend to have a better work ethic and do superior work (not always, but often), and two - I want to show my support for superior service, and for the nerve it takes to move to a foreign country and risk everything you've got. I like people with that much chutzpa!

 

[Kathryn]

anyone who supports this form of status quo must be prepared to take the flak.

Whether an individual poster treats their domestic staff badly or not is besides the point, as many people out in the real world do just this.

Oh, so you believe in collective guilt then.

 

[Kathryn]

100K is plenty enough money to live off - I've even said that the figure could be upped slightly.

do you think people in the past were joyless because they earned less than this! - of course not.

Nowadays, people only want more money, status, possessions and 'respect' because others have it - so it's all a false desire in the first place.

We need to lower peoples' sense of entitlement and avarice, not increase it!

With all the riches we have in the World why should anyone need to wipe up after another , simply to put food on the table?

You're so judgmental.

I want to make more than 100K a year because I have seven grandchildren who live all over the world. I want to be able to visit them. I want to be able to save for retirement so that I am not a burden on my kids when I am elderly. I want to be able to help my kids pay for their kids' college educations. I want to be able to donate money to my favorite charities - like the orphanage in Korea where both my brother and my grandson are from. I want to be able to support my local economy via my very hefty property taxes and also my very hefty income taxes. My daughters were shocked that I paid more in taxes last year than their husbands made all year - but hey, someone has to pay for all these programs, right? They all got tax refunds - more in fact than they paid in - so who is going to pay for all that?

Me - that's who. And all those other folks making over $100k a year.

I'm not complaining, by the way. One of my daughters said, "Wow, Mom, I can't believe you had to send the IRS a check that big! That sucks for you - now I feel bad!" I just grinned and told her, "Just doing my part, baby girl. Don't worry - your turn will come one day, hopefully - and it's not so bad, I promise!"

 

[Kathryn]

that sure is true.

What I have noticed in this thread (and others), is that once the Lords and Ladies realise they cannot convert you to their exploitative way of thinking then they do one of these things:

1. Name calling
2. Have a hissy fit
3. Leave the thread in a huff
4. Assert that you have no idea about things

This Lady hasn't done a single one of these things.

 

[Kathryn]

try spending some time some of the poorer countries of the world and see how the maids fare

You would think twice then about hiring domestics and justifying it 'because you pay them'.

I don't live in a country like that, and frankly, I am not responsible for how some jerk in Cambodia treats the maid. I'm responsible for how I treat the maid who works for ME.

 

[Kathryn]

Don't forget hair dye, make-up, pools, expensive dress shoes and boots and clothing, private jets, and acrylic nails.

Or knock off purses and tennis shoes!

 

[Kathryn]

do you really mean to say that a person hiring a maid is a job creator?

How about if I choose to pay all my staff $1/hour and then give work to twice as many people - is that creating jobs too?

Your staff will just leave and come work for me - I'll pay them a lot better and treat them better too. And they can call me by my first name - and I'm actually very interested in their pictures of their kids and where they went on vacation last year and what deals they've found recently at the local antique mall.

 

[Penumbra]

do you really mean to say that a person hiring a maid is a job creator?

How about if I choose to pay all my staff $1/hour and then give work to twice as many people - is that creating jobs too?

$1 doesn't give anyone any sort of life, at least not in a developed country.

Exchanging a reasonable sum of money that both parties are happy enough with, does. A third party coming in and telling two people they can't make an agreed-upon economic exchange is harmful, annoying, and unjustified.

ok, so why is your labour worth $50 per hour to clean , but someone else's is only worth $10.

what makes you so special here?

is your life 5 times more important than a maid's , because that is basically what you are saying.

Some people go through 12 years of school, decades of experience, and become heart surgeons.

Others combine marketing and engineering to, say, start a company.

There are some people that become so good at one thing, they can charge tons of money per hour, and yet make it worth every penny to the client.

If a person does something skillfully, or does something highly scalable, then they can multiply their economic value by two, five, ten, a hundred, a thousand times. That's not to say their life is more important, but it's to say that they are capable of creating more desirable or further-reaching products and services with their time. And then they can use a portion of the economic value they created to avoid doing things that they'd prefer not to do, or that don't scale as well, so that they can focus on the things that they do well and that scale well, or that they enjoy doing.