Setting The Bible Reader Straight

[3rdAngel]

Wrong, not an assumption. And that is a foolish claim to make since it puts the burden of proof upon you. It is a deduction based upon the scripture and reading it in context.

Not really. You were the one reading into the scriptures things it does not say. Please show me where the scriptures say JESUS was shown the whole world by seeing it physically with his eyes? Where in the scriptures does it say that the devil shows JESUS all the kingdoms of the world by physical eyesight. It doesn't.

Let's look at exactly what the scripures say and nothing else...

MATTHEW 4:1-10
[1], Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
[2], And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.
[3], And when the tempter came to him, he said, If you be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[4], But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
[5], Then the devil takes him up into the holy city, and sets him on a pinnacle of the temple,
[6], And said to him, If you be the Son of God, cast yourself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning you: and in their hands they shall bear you up, lest at any time you dash your foot against a stone.
[7], Jesus said to him, It is written again, You shall not tempt the Lord your God.
[8], Again, the devil takes him up into an exceeding high mountain, and shows him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
[9], And said to him, All these things will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.
[10], Then said Jesus to him, Get you hence, Satan: for it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.

What the scripture says;

1. JESUS was led by God into the wilderness and fasted 40 days and than was tempted of the devil *Matthew 4:1-2

2. The first temptation the devil came to Jesus after he was hungry with the first temptation *Matthew 4:3-4

3. The second temptation; the devil took him into the holy city *Matthew 4:5. How? We are not told how the devil took JESUS to the temple and the Holy city.

4. The third temptation as says that the devil took JESUS to a exceeding high mountain to show him all the kingdoms of the world *Matthew 4:8. Note; we are not told what mountain; we are not told how JESUS was shown all the kingdoms of the world. We are only told that it was the devil that took him to this mountain and it was the devil that showed JESUS all the kingdoms of the world.

We do know it is impossible for JESUS to naturally see all the kingdoms of the world from any mountain. So in order for JESUS to be taken to a mountain by the devil and see all the kingdoms of the earth it would have had to be a supernatural event. I am sure you would agree with this right?

These scriptures agree with a similar experience of those found in Ezekiel where he had a similar experience as a vision from God...

EZEKIEL 40:1-4 [1], In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the LORD was on me, and brought me thither. [2], In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me on a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south. [3], And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate. [4], And the man said to me, Son of man, behold with your eyes, and hear with your ears, and set your heart on all that I shall show you; for to the intent that I might show them to you are you brought here: declare all that you see to the house of Israel.

Notice here that this was done by a vision from God where God brought Ezekiel to a very high mountain (Just like JESUS exceeding high mountain) and in vision God showed Ezekiel all the things he wanted him to see to declare to the house of ISRAEL.

The Apostle John had a similar experience to Ezekiel and JESUS in the book of Revelation...

REVELATION 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

JESUS being taken by the devil into an exceeding high mountain and shown all the kingdoms of the earth in vision seems very possible sonsidering all the other scriptures which seems to support Lukes account in where he says JESUS saw all the kingdoms of the earth in a moment of time. Once again this is physically impossible to see all the kingdoms of the earth in a moment of time, but not inpossible in a vision.

LUKE 4:1-5 [1], And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, [2], Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungry. [3], And the devil said to him, If you be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread. [4], And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. [5], And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed to him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

Your claim that JESUS was physically taken to a mountain and was shown the kingdoms of the earth with his bodily eyes is not written in the scriptures. This is something you have assumed and that the bible does not tell us.

So yes it is an assumption on your part that you cannot prove through the scriptures.

Your welcome

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

(good grief)

 

[3rdAngel]

No, I am simply reading what they say with a minimum amount of reinterpretation. You have to go to great lengths because a literal reading fails.

A literal reading is fine. You stating things that are not written into the scriptures and assuming things that are not there is the problem.

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes-- if a plain fool easily sees there is no god? A wise man *knows* there is, according to the silly bible.

Of course-- there's a vast gulf between actual Knowing, and Faith-- which the bible absolutely demands of it's worshipers.

Sad, really-- with Faith, you can believe in anything. Including Universe-Creating Pixies.

It would seem that Faith isn't a Path to Knowing.

I would say you have to have more faith in not believing God if you cannot prove that God does not exist

 

[3rdAngel]

NOPE. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE. The Circle here-- in HEBREW-- describes a FLAT PLATE.

NOT A BALL. Go ahead-- google Hebrew of this passage-- see if the Hebrew word for "BALL" is EVER used here-- you'll find it is NOT. Plate-- round, FLAT plate is the Hebrew word used.

So sorry-- you could not possibly be more wrong.

Nonsense! Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H2329 חוּג; chûg From H2328; a circle: - circle, circuit, compassive

In ISAIAH 40:17-25 context determines the topic of the conversation. There is nothing in the context of ISAIAH 40:17-25 that is talking about a flat earth. The scriptures says that God sits, as a judge or governor upon his throne, upon the circle of the earth; or, above the circle; far above this round earth, even in the highest heavens; from whence he looketh down upon the earth, where men appear to him like grasshoppers. He alludes to one that looks down upon the earth below him from some high place. This is the context.

In space on the earth, above (upon) and below is wherever you maybe on the earth which is determined by gravity. There is no up and down in space as up and down is everywhere in space depending on where gravity is. "Down" is simply the direction gravity is pulling you, and "up" is just the opposite direction wherever you are on earth.

This means in the scriptures in Isaiah 40:15-25 that God is everywhere! Our planet is only one of many planets and stars in one of many universes and galaxies. Since there is gravity everywhere in space, there is also an up and down everywhere in all directions in space. There is no such thing as a flat earth in scripture. It is only you trying to deny God's Word with your own words which are not God's Word but your words because you do not know God or his Word.

Your welcome

 

[3rdAngel]

Proof that the bible is NOT from a god? Is the fact that it would appear (according to YOU) to require someone LIKE YOU to "explain" that the word's do not mean what is written.

Indeed-- according to YOU, the words mean the exact opposite!

Weird. it's as if the Bible were written 1000's of years ago, by ancient superstitious bronze-age goat herders who had no idea where the sun went at night, or something.

Instead of an ... All Knowing, ALL CARING, ALL LOVING "God". ....

For someone that does not really believe in God you spend a lot of time talking about him and here you still are trying to convince yourself that God is not real. Can you prove God is not real? If you cannot does this not concern you? It should. Something to think about my friend

 

[3rdAngel]

THAT ONLY MAKES IT 100000 TIMES WORSE! Sheesh.

IT means that if there is a god behind the bible? SAID GOD DOES NOT GIVE A RAT'S A*** TO BE SURE THE BIBLE REMAINS RELEVANT AND CLEAR.

The exact OPPOSITE of a book allegedly "divine"...!

The bible will always remain irrelavant to those who do not know God or beleive his Word. All you have managed to do in this thread is prove God's Word true. The natural man receives not the things of the spirit of God neither can he know them as spiritual things are spiritually discerned. You will never know God by denying him. Yet you know deep down inside that there is a God or you would not be here.

 

[3rdAngel]

You do not understand what atheism is. Where did I ever claim that there was no God? That is a false claim on your part.

Not really. I am only repeating what you said earlier as shown here (my emphasis)....

3rdAngel said: ↑ Your just repeating yourself here and this content has already been addressed elsewhere. I noticed you avoided answering my question. Do you believe in God?

Your response in post # 242...

Of course I don't believe in a God

Seems you do not know what you believe? So yep, your the one that has come to a religious forum claiming there is no God not me and you cannot prove there is no God. Something for you to think about I guess.

Your welcome

 

[sojourner]

Where have I ever said God wrote the bible. This is you not telling the truth

You insisted that the Bible is God’s words.

 

[sojourner]

This was only posted earlier to show that the known world was that controlled by the Roman empire in the days of JESUS controlled the kingdoms of the known world in the days of JESUS nothing more. Known world is in reference to the people in JESUS day not in reference to God

But if the text is God’s Word, it doesn’t matter what people did or did not know. It matters what God knows. Either God didn’t know the extent of the world, or God printed an untruth in this case.

 

[sojourner]

The bible is God's Word and God does not print lies

Apparently in this case God does print lies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why do you think I need to prove big foot? I do not know if he exists or does not exist neither do I care either way. On the other hand it is you that has come to a religious forum claiming you do not believe in God but not able to prove that there is no God, not me

Why do I have to prove that God does not exist? You are demonstrating that you do not understand the burden of proof.

And that is right. I do not believe in God. You do not believe in Bigfoot. By your standards the burden of proof is upon you to prove that Bigfoot does not exist.

 

[YoursTrue]

Was Jesus really trying to teach those people botanics? Turning and turning around words and licencia poetica but failing to seek meaning and essence. "Seeing they may see and not perceive."

True.

 

[YoursTrue]

You insisted that the Bible is God’s words.

The Bible was written by men, but inspired of God. 2 Timothy 3:16: "All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right."

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not really. You were the one reading into the scriptures things it does not say. Please show me where the scriptures say JESUS was shown the whole world by seeing it physically with his eyes? Where in the scriptures does it say that the devil shows JESUS all the kingdoms of the world by physical eyesight. It doesn't.

Let's look at exactly what the scripures say and nothing else...

MATTHEW 4:1-10
[1], Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
[2], And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.
[3], And when the tempter came to him, he said, If you be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[4], But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
[5], Then the devil takes him up into the holy city, and sets him on a pinnacle of the temple,
[6], And said to him, If you be the Son of God, cast yourself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning you: and in their hands they shall bear you up, lest at any time you dash your foot against a stone.
[7], Jesus said to him, It is written again, You shall not tempt the Lord your God.
[8], Again, the devil takes him up into an exceeding high mountain, and shows him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
[9], And said to him, All these things will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.
[10], Then said Jesus to him, Get you hence, Satan: for it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.

What the scripture says;

1. JESUS was led by God into the wilderness and fasted 40 days and than was tempted of the devil *Matthew 4:1-2

2. The first temptation the devil came to Jesus after he was hungry with the first temptation *Matthew 4:3-4

3. The second temptation; the devil took him into the holy city *Matthew 4:5. How? We are not told how the devil took JESUS to the temple and the Holy city.

4. The third temptation as says that the devil took JESUS to a exceeding high mountain to show him all the kingdoms of the world *Matthew 4:8. Note; we are not told what mountain; we are not told how JESUS was shown all the kingdoms of the world. We are only told that it was the devil that took him to this mountain and it was the devil that showed JESUS all the kingdoms of the world.

We do know it is impossible for JESUS to naturally see all the kingdoms of the world from any mountain. So in order for JESUS to be taken to a mountain by the devil and see all the kingdoms of the earth it would have had to be a supernatural event. I am sure you would agree with this right?

These scriptures agree with a similar experience of those found in Ezekiel where he had a similar experience as a vision from God...

EZEKIEL 40:1-4 [1], In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the LORD was on me, and brought me thither. [2], In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me on a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south. [3], And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate. [4], And the man said to me, Son of man, behold with your eyes, and hear with your ears, and set your heart on all that I shall show you; for to the intent that I might show them to you are you brought here: declare all that you see to the house of Israel.

Notice here that this was done by a vision from God where God brought Ezekiel to a very high mountain (Just like JESUS exceeding high mountain) and in vision God showed Ezekiel all the things he wanted him to see to declare to the house of ISRAEL.

The Apostle John had a similar experience to Ezekiel and JESUS in the book of Revelation...

REVELATION 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

JESUS being taken by the devil into an exceeding high mountain and shown all the kingdoms of the earth in vision seems very possible sonsidering all the other scriptures which seems to support Lukes account in where he says JESUS saw all the kingdoms of the earth in a moment of time. Once again this is physically impossible to see all the kingdoms of the earth in a moment of time, but not inpossible in a vision.

LUKE 4:1-5 [1], And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, [2], Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungry. [3], And the devil said to him, If you be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread. [4], And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. [5], And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed to him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

Your claim that JESUS was physically taken to a mountain and was shown the kingdoms of the earth with his bodily eyes is not written in the scriptures. This is something you have assumed and that the bible does not tell us.

So yes it is an assumption on your part that you cannot prove through the scriptures.

Your welcome

Context. You should try it someday. Now you are simply grasping at straws out of desperation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not really. I am only repeating what you said earlier as shown here (my emphasis)....

Your response in post # 242...

Seems you do not know what you believe? So yep, your the one that has come to a religious forum claiming there is no God not me and you cannot prove there is no God. Something for you to think about I guess.

Your welcome

I am not the confused one here. Try again.

 

[YoursTrue]

If the texts are “God’s Words,” why would God be restrained to what the people “knew?” Isn’t God omniscient? Why would God print a lie?


Seems you didn’t study Hebrew in Seminary...


Does God break God’s laws or promises? Aren’t natural laws part of those laws and promises? If not, then how can the Bible honestly say that we can always trust in God and that God is steadfast? Is God lying? The God of your fantasy-bible seems abysmally wish-washy. Just sayin’.

There are things we just don't know. When things get rough, and especially when living as Christians, that's when faith is tested and we can despair. Faith is not something easily come by as if we're coasting. Moses had his troubles. Jesus had his troubles. And many of the Bible writers and prophets had their troubles as well. Does that mean that God is not there, or does not exist? No, because we're not in the paradise yet. Meanwhile...it's almost like this: it's either evolution or God. As far as I'm concerned, I have decided, based on circumstances, that the Bible is telling the truth. Do I understand how everything happened? Obviously not. But the Bible makes far more sense to me than any other reason for what we see and experience around us.

 

[3rdAngel]

You insisted that the Bible is God’s words.

Sure I did. That is not saying that God wrote the bible is it? *2 TIMOTHY 3:16

 

[3rdAngel]

But if the text is God’s Word, it doesn’t matter what people did or did not know. It matters what God knows. Either God didn’t know the extent of the world, or God printed an untruth in this case.

Sure God knows the extent of the world. Why would you think he didn't? There is no printed untruth. God does not lie only men do *ROMANS 3:4

 

[3rdAngel]

Apparently in this case God does print lies.

And what case would that be? Please see post # 281 linked which proves this is not the case and if you disagree please feel free to respond.