Setting The Bible Reader Straight

[sooda]

No need it was a all a part of the Roman Empire of the known world in the time of JESUS. As posted earlier we are not told how JESUS was shown the kingdoms of the world. Which to the known world was the Roman Empire. Your assumption is that he had to visibly see, every country in the whole world. The scriptures do not say this. The known world ruling power at the time of JESUS was the Roman Empire. It does not say in the scriptures that Jesus had to see every part of the Roman empire. The point of the temptation was that Satan would give him everything. Some like to read into the scriptures things the scripture do not say in order to twist them to say things they would like them to but do not.

Do you believe that Jesus didn't eat or drink for 40 days?

 

[3rdAngel]

No, you only misinterpreted them from a very biased perspective. That is not refuting. The problem was that even with your poor reinterpretation the verses still fail. Even the "Roman world" was far more than a tenth of a percent of Earth's surface area which would be all you could see from Everest. From any local mountain, which is what you would be limited to, it would even be less than that. There is a huge problem with apologetics, sooner or later it always becomes "lying for Jesus".

Not really. What you claim is that you know the scriptures not having God's Spirit better than those who know God's Word and have his Spirit. According to the scriptures spiritual things are spiritually discerned and the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God neither can he know them for they are foolishness unto him *1 Corinthians 2:14. No one can know God's Word if they do not have God's Spirit and do not know God *1 Corinthians 2:12-16; John 14:26; 1 Corinthians 3:19; 1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 3:19. According to God's Word as an unbeliever, your interpretation of the scriptures is foolishness in God's eyes because you do not know God. This thread is a very good example of proving God's Word true.

For this I thank you

 

[sooda]

Not really. What you claim is that you know the scriptures not having God's Spirit better than those who know God's Word and have his Spirit. According to the scriptures spiritual things are spiritually discerned and the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God neither can he know them for they are foolishness unto him *1 Corinthians 2:14. No one can know God's Word if they do not have God's Spirit and do not know God *1 Corinthians 2:12-16; John 14:26; 1 Corinthians 3:19; 1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 3:19. According to God's Word as an unbeliever, your interpretation of the scriptures is foolishness in God's eyes because you do not know God. This thread is a very good example of proving God's Word true.

For this I thank you

What a neat hat trick...

 

[3rdAngel]

Do you believe that Jesus didn't eat or drink for 40 days?

The scriptures do not say JESUS did not drink when he was fasting for 40 days in the wilderness. Your reading into the scriptures things they do not say again.

 

[sooda]

The scriptures do not say JESUS did not drink when he was fasting for 40 days in the wilderness. Your reading into the scriptures things they do not say again.

Fasting Judaism

• In Judaism, fasting is observed in several annual days, primarily on days of penitence (such as Yom Kippur , the Day of Atonement) or mourning. Fasting for Jews means completely abstaining from food and drink, including water. In Christianity, especially Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy ,...

Fasting in Islam & other religions
www.patheos.com/blogs/islamahmadiyya/2015/06/fasting-in-islam-other-religions/

 

[3rdAngel]

Fasting Judaism

• In Judaism, fasting is observed in several annual days, primarily on days of penitence (such as Yom Kippur , the Day of Atonement) or mourning. Fasting for Jews means completely abstaining from food and drink, including water. In Christianity, especially Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy ,...

Fasting in Islam & other religions
www.patheos.com/blogs/islamahmadiyya/2015/06/fasting-in-islam-other-religions/

Nonsense! Read what the scripture says. The only time complete fasting was required for ISRAEL was on the annual day of atonement.

Get your facts right...

Matthew 4:2 [2], And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered. Fast[ed] G3522; νηστεύω; nēsteuō From G3523; to abstain from food (religiously): - fast.

The scripture is not talking about the day of atonement which was one of the annual feastivals. It is talking about Jesus time in the wilderness prior to temptation.

 

[sooda]

Rubbish read what the scripture says.

LOLOL.. Now you are claiming the Jews, the authors of the gospels, didn't know what fasting is??

 

[3rdAngel]

LOLOL.. Now you are claiming the Jews, the authors of the gospels, didn't know what fasting is??

Not at all. I am claiming you do not know what fasting means as applied to Jesus temptation in the wilderness. Please read post # 146 it proves it and addresses what you posted and shows that what you posted was not applicable to the scripture you are trying to apply it to with Jesus fasting in the wilderness *Matthew 4:2

 

[3rdAngel]

3 Tishrei October 2, 2019---- Fast of Gedalia Public holiday in Israel, changes to Tishrei 4 when Tishrei 3 is Shabbat


10 Tishrei October 9, 2019---- Yom Kippur Public holiday in Israel. Unlike other fasting days, this does not move to avoid interfering with Shabbat.


13 Adar March 9, 2020---- Fast of Esther Public holiday in Israel. Starts at dawn. Can be moved to avoid conflict with the Sabbath. On Adar II on leap years, Adar I on non-leap years.


14 Nisan April 8, 2020---- Fast of the Firstborn on 12 Nisan when the 14th falls on Sabbath


28 Iyar May 21, 2020---- Fast of Samuel Fast is optional and is generally only observed by Chevra kadisha


20 Sivan June 12, 2020---- Fast of the Khmelnytsky massacres Not widely observed

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This is a distraction to what we are discussing in regards to JESUS temptation in the wilderness. Read what you are posting. What you have posted are not compulsary fasts for all Israelites. Only the annual day of atonement *Yom Kippur was a compulsary fast for all Israelites. Jesus temptation in the wilderness has nothing to do with these fasts when he fasted 40 days and 40 nights prior to his temptations in the wilderness neither does it say he could not drink water as your friend claims. This is another good example of your guys trying to read into the scriptures things the scriptures do not say.

Hope this helps .

 

[Skwim]

This is a distraction to what we are discussing in regards to JESUS temptation in the wilderness. Read what you are posting. What you have posted are not compulsary fasts for all Israelites. Only the annual day of atonement *Yom Kippur was a compulsary fast for all Israelites. Jesus temptation in the wilderness has nothing to do with these fasts when he fasted 40 days and 40 nights prior to his temptations in the wilderness neither does it say he could not drink water as your friend claims .

The post was withdrawn about 6 minutes ago. Before I read your reply here. I decided the subject was simply too boring to pursue.

.

 

[3rdAngel]

The post was withdrawn about 6 minutes ago.

.

Ok no problem. I think it was not because the subject was boring. If you could have proven your claims that Jesus did not drink any water in a 40 day fast, you would have been all over it. It was simply because what you guys were trying to argue was simply wrong and you realised it. This is in contrast to the rest of the content in this op which has been proven wrong but your still trying to read into the scriptures things the scriptures do not say. The scripture does not say Jesus did not drink any water while fasting in the wilderness. That was simply you guys reading things into the scriptures again that the scripture do not teach. All you have done is to prove God's Word true.

For this we are thankful

 

[1213]

...Nope. You can't just stick in a qualifier to make yur excuse work. Jesus was simply wrong in saying. "It is like a grain of mustard seed which, when it is sown in the ground, is the smallest seed on earth."
.

Ok, I understand that you want to see errors, even if there are none. But Jesus is speaking of “herbs” as one can see from here:

which indeed is smaller than all seeds. But when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in its branches."
Matt. 13:32

Herb means in that any pot herb, vegetables.

Does your atheism collapse, if there is not mistake in that?

 

[1213]

Have you actually seen one? It is HUGE. Gigantic, relatively speaking! It's about the size of a little BB (a type of ammo, about 0.177 of an inch). ...

Wikipedia says: “…The seeds are usually about 1 to 2 millimetres (0.039 to 0.079 in) in diameter…”.

Mustard seed - Wikipedia

Should I believe you, or Wikipedia?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not really. What you claim is that you know the scriptures not having God's Spirit better than those who know God's Word and have his Spirit. According to the scriptures spiritual things are spiritually discerned and the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God neither can he know them for they are foolishness unto him *1 Corinthians 2:14. No one can know God's Word if they do not have God's Spirit and do not know God *1 Corinthians 2:12-16; John 14:26; 1 Corinthians 3:19; 1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 3:19. According to God's Word as an unbeliever, your interpretation of the scriptures is foolishness in God's eyes because you do not know God. This thread is a very good example of proving God's Word true.

For this I thank you

That is because your own false beliefs lead to misinterpretation. If you were clear about your version of God I could probably prove that he does not exist. Probably not to you since you will almost certainly refuse to reason rationally.

One of the first things that tells you the Bible is false is the sort of verse that you quoted at me. If the Bible was the word of God there should be no need for such defensive verses. Don't worry, the Bible is not unique in using those sorts of verses. By your standards Islam is true. They have the same sort of dishonest attacks against nonbelievers.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok, I understand that you want to see errors, even if there are none. But Jesus is speaking of “herbs” as one can see from here:

which indeed is smaller than all seeds. But when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in its branches."
Matt. 13:32

Herb means in that any pot herb, vegetables.

Does your atheism collapse, if there is not mistake in that?

Poppies would count as "herbs" since there seeds are used as a flavoring agent. Guess what? Its seeds are smaller that that of the mustard plant.

 

[Skwim]

Ok, I understand that you want to see errors, even if there are none. But Jesus is speaking of “herbs” as one can see from here:

which indeed is smaller than all seeds. But when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in its branches."
Matt. 13:32

First of all, do mustard plants become trees? Of course not.

(The yellow plants are the mustard)​

They're relatively low growing plants that never develop a perennial woody structure.

PLUS

The poppy seed, which is also an herb, AND GROWS IN ISRAEL, is smaller than the mustard seed (see image in the OP).

"Poppy seed is an oilseed obtained from the poppy (Papaver somniferum). The tiny kidney-shaped seeds have been harvested from dried seed pods by various civilizations for thousands of years. It is still widely used in many countries, especially in Central Europe, where it is legally grown and sold in shops."
Source: Wikipedia

Poppy, Papaver somniferum L., is an annual herb native to Southeastern Europe and western Asia. Also known as opium poppy, the species is cultivated extensively in many countries, including Iran, Turkey, Holland, Poland, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, India, Canada, and many Asian and Central and South American countries. Reaching a height of 1.2 meters, the erect plant can have white, pink, red, or purple flowers. Seeds range in color from white to a slate shade that is called blue in commercial classifications.
source

​

Conclusion: Jesus and you have something in common. Neither of you know what you're talking about when it comes to mustard seeds.

.
​

 

[PearlSeeker]

An atheist said to a Christian: "There is no heaven."

Christian:"Why do you say so?"

Atheist: "If there was a heaven, it would have been 10 to 20 miles from Jerusalem."

Christian: "Where did you get this?"

Atheist: "I've read it in the Bible ofcourse."

Christian: "Really? Where?"

Atheist: "When Jesus was on the cross, he said to the other crucified criminal: Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

 

[3rdAngel]

First of all, do mustard plants become trees? Of course not.

(The yellow plants are the mustard)​

They're relatively low growing plants that never develop a perennial woody structure.

PLUS

The poppy seed, which is also an herb, AND GROWS IN ISRAEL, is smaller than the mustard seed (see image in the OP).

"Poppy seed is an oilseed obtained from the poppy (Papaver somniferum). The tiny kidney-shaped seeds have been harvested from dried seed pods by various civilizations for thousands of years. It is still widely used in many countries, especially in Central Europe, where it is legally grown and sold in shops."
Source: Wikipedia

Poppy, Papaver somniferum L., is an annual herb native to Southeastern Europe and western Asia. Also known as opium poppy, the species is cultivated extensively in many countries, including Iran, Turkey, Holland, Poland, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, India, Canada, and many Asian and Central and South American countries. Reaching a height of 1.2 meters, the erect plant can have white, pink, red, or purple flowers. Seeds range in color from white to a slate shade that is called blue in commercial classifications.
source

​

Conclusion: Jesus and you have something in common. Neither of you know what you're talking about when it comes to mustard seeds.

Seems you are having a bad day getting your facts right...

The problem here with this comparison of yours here is that the actual mustard plant being referred to in the scriptures is unknown. It is not the same as the comonly cultivated mustard plants we have today as shown in your picture above. The scriptures here are in reference to the mustard tree some believe refer to a tree known in the middle east as Salvadora persica.

It is mentioned that this plant was cultivated by the Hebrews in the Tamuld and grew into a tree having similar properties to mustard. Luke's account of the same parable in Luke 13:19 says that this mustard plant turned into a great tree. So the above is evidence that we are not referring to the common mustard plant where birds can build their nests.

The mustard tree is mentioned in the Greek new testament through the name G4615 σίναπι; sinapi which means a plant to hurt and sting; mustard. The Hebrew and Syriac name being mustard and the Arabic name being chardul or Khardal which has the same properties as the smaller mustard plant as we know it. It also has the smallest of seeds (not smallest known seed) but at the time of the writing of the scriptures for most people it would have been known as some of the smallest cultivated of seeds that can grow into a tree up to 25 feet high.

(Source; On the Identification of the Mustard Tree of Scripture Author(s): J. Forbes Royle Source: The Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 8 (1846), pp. 113-137, Cambridge University press)

Your welcome

 

[3rdAngel]

That is because your own false beliefs lead to misinterpretation. If you were clear about your version of God I could probably prove that he does not exist. Probably not to you since you will almost certainly refuse to reason rationally.

One of the first things that tells you the Bible is false is the sort of verse that you quoted at me. If the Bible was the word of God there should be no need for such defensive verses. Don't worry, the Bible is not unique in using those sorts of verses. By your standards Islam is true. They have the same sort of dishonest attacks against nonbelievers.

YawwwnZ, sorry did you say something? Please wake me up when you want to discuss the posts and scriptures shared with you that show why you are in error. Until than your words do not really matter as they are simply your words denying God's Word so your argument is with God not me. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them.

 

[Skwim]

Seems you are having a bad day getting your facts right...

The problem here with this comparison of yours here is that the actual mustard plant being referred to in the scriptures is unknown. It is not the same as the comonly cultivated mustard plants we have today as shown in your picture above. The scriptures here are in reference to the mustard tree some believe refer to a tree known in the middle east as Salvadora persica.

It is mentioned that this plant was cultivated by the Hebrews in the Tamuld and grew into a tree having similar properties to mustard. Luke's account of the same parable in Luke 13:19 says that this mustard plant turned into a great tree. So the above is evidence that we are not referring to the common mustard plant where birds can build their nests.

The mustard tree is mentioned in the Greek new testament through the name G4615 σίναπι; sinapi which means a plant to hurt and sting; mustard. The Hebrew and Syriac name being mustard and the Arabic name being chardul or Khardal which has the same properties as the smaller mustard plant as we know it. It also has the smallest of seeds (not smallest known seed) but at the time of the writing of the scriptures for most people it would have been known as some of the smallest cultivated of seeds that can grow into a tree up to 25 feet high.

(Source; On the Identification of the Mustard Tree of Scripture Author(s): J. Forbes Royle Source: The Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 8 (1846), pp. 113-137, Cambridge University press)

Your welcome

If the mustard seed referred to is from the mustard tree Salvadora persica it hardly comes close to being "the smallest seed on earth." In fact, compared to the seed of the mustard herb from the genus Brassica it is quite large.

Whereas the mustard herb, Brassica Nigra has seeds that range in size from 1 to 2 mm, the mustard tree, Salvadora persica's seeds range from 3 to 5 mm.

​

So if Jesus point was really one of comparison he would have been better off to use the seeds of the mustard herb Brassica Nigra rather than that of the mustard tree Salvadora persica. Both plants being native to Israel.

.

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