Sex before marriage?????

[ecco]

Because the other books confirm the Baha’i beliefs, as I said.

Here are your former questions and my answers

ecco: Which of those categorically stated that there is no sex in Hell?
How do the authors know this?

TB: By the process of deductive reasoning we can know there is no sex in hell since there are no physical bodies in hell and physical bodies are necessary to have sex. The authors know this because they had or are writing about other who had communications with those who are in the spiritual world.

You haven't shown anything from Ballula that unequivocally states that in heaven there will be no physical bodies. You believe the writings of "psychics" although there is substantial evidence that psychics are con men.

ecco: I just took a quick look at The Afterlife Revealed. The author previously wrote a book showing why he believed that psychic mediums were really able to communicate with the dead. Is that part of your belief system?

TB: Psychic mediums communicating with the dead is not part of my belief system. Abdu’l-Baha acknowledged that this was possible but he discouraged is from trying to contact the spiritual world.

If that practice was discouraged, why are you encouraged by the findings of people who partake of these practices?

 

[ecco]

I am not looking for conversions. I am just trying to help as many people as I can avoid hell and make it to heaven.

By help, you mean converting them to beliefs similar to yours. Conversations.

What do you think I get for myself for spending all my free time posting to atheists?

Answer: nothing.

If it isn't working maybe you should take the hint - no one wants your brand of religion.

What do you think my Christian coworkers are doing this weekend?

Answer: They are having fun, going on hikes and boating.According to the book Heaven and Hell, she and many other Christians will not be going to heaven, but that is another story, maybe for a new thread.

Is the book Heaven and Hell a Bahai publication? Does it contain the writings of Ballula? Why, with all the Bahai literature available, are you needing to rely on others' writings?

 

[Trailblazer]

You haven't shown anything from Ballula that unequivocally states that in heaven there will be no physical bodies.

I do not really NEED what Baha'u'llah wrote to know that there will be no physical bodies in the spiritual world, all I need is a logical mind. There is nothing physical in a spiritual world to sustain a physical body.

But I do have quotes....

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

You believe the writings of "psychics" although there is substantial evidence that psychics are con men.

I believe them because they concur with what Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha wrote. All psychics are not con men. Some are legitimate. We can distinguish them by looking at their motives.

If that practice was discouraged, why are you encouraged by the findings of people who partake of these practices?

Because I know the reason the practice was discouraged was not because they are con men. The reason we are discouraged is because we are supposed to be focusing on living in THIS world while we are still here. However, it is difficult for me to not know more about the spiritual world so I go looking for information. What I find gives me hope and strength to keep going in THIS world.

 

[Trailblazer]

By help, you mean converting them to beliefs similar to yours. Conversations.

No, absolutely not. By help I mean helping atheists realize that there is a God. They do not have to become Baha'is. God is nondenominational.

If it isn't working maybe you should take the hint - no one wants your brand of religion.

I will stop talking when people stop talking to me. That has not happened. In fact, I can barely handle the number of posts I get. I have no life of my own, but that's okay. The eternal destination of other people is more important.

Is the book Heaven and Hell a Bahai publication? Does it contain the writings of Ballula? Why, with all the Bahai literature available, are you needing to rely on others' writings?

Why? Because this is what Baha'u'llah wrote about the afterlife and it is not enough for me:

“Know thou that every hearing ear, if kept pure and undefiled, must, at all times and from every direction, hearken to the voice that uttereth these holy words: “Verily, we are God’s, and to Him shall we return.” The mysteries of man’s physical death and of his return have not been divulged, and still remain unread. By the righteousness of God! Were they to be revealed, they would evoke such fear and sorrow that some would perish, while others would be so filled with gladness as to wish for death, and beseech, with unceasing longing, the one true God—exalted be His glory—to hasten their end.

Death proffereth unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed. It bestoweth joy, and is the bearer of gladness. It conferreth the gift of everlasting life.

As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 345-346​

As the story goes, once when Baha'u'llah was alive a believer insisted that Baha'u'llah explain to him what the afterlife (spiritual world) was like. Baha'u'llah declined but the man insisted so Baha'u'llah revealed that information to this man's mind. That man then committed suicide because he wanted to attain that state immediately...

I am not that impatient. Even if I know more than I am supposed to know about the afterlife I am not going to commit suicide because I know that is not the right thing to do. I have work to do here on myself and helping others. I would never kill myself.

 

[ecco]

I do not really NEED what Baha'u'llah wrote to know that there will be no physical bodies in the spiritual world, all I need is a logical mind. There is nothing physical in a spiritual world to sustain a physical body.

But I do have quotes....

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

So, Bahá’u’lláh - Messenger of God just states that the afterlife will be different. He doesn't state how. That means that God did not tell him. God did not want anyone to know. Yet you take it upon yourself to assert that you do know. You even admit that your knowledge comes secular sources and from your logical mind.

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

So, Page 157 He's ambiguous, by page 194 he's specific. That inconsistency shows confusion on the part of the writer.

All psychics are not con men. Some are legitimate. We can distinguish them by looking at their motives.

Are you clairvoyant? How do you determine their motives? Please name one psychic who you believe is not a con (wo)man because you have determined their motives.

 

[ecco]

No, absolutely not. By help I mean helping atheists realize that there is a God. They do not have to become Baha'is. God is nondenominational.

So you somehow believe that switching an atheist to a god believer doesn't fall under the umbrella of conversion.

I will stop talking when people stop talking to me. That has not happened. In fact, I can barely handle the number of posts I get. I have no life of my own, but that's okay. The eternal destination of other people is more important.

Ah, you are indeed a selfless person.

As the story goes, once when Baha'u'llah was alive a believer insisted that Baha'u'llah explain to him what the afterlife (spiritual world) was like. Baha'u'llah declined but the man insisted so Baha'u'llah revealed that information to this man's mind. That man then committed suicide because he wanted to attain that state immediately...

This is the kind of nonsense that you believe! That "Baha'u'llah revealed that information to this man's mind".

I am not that impatient. Even if I know more than I am supposed to know about the afterlife I am not going to commit suicide because I know that is not the right thing to do. I have work to do here on myself and helping others. I would never kill myself.

Ah, you are indeed a selfless person.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Let me get this right? You would prefer an unnatural death than an std? Actually i have, i have shown the statistics do not favour the highly religious bible belt area of the US.

I am sure they are, do you exercise daily and get routine PSA blood tests? Your cure for female bladder control is what?

Sometimes I judge by numbers. 1 million abortions of unwanted babies vs. how many incel suicides, do you think?

Be cautious about confusing correlation and causation. If you're sure intercourse is better for female bladder control than abstinence, would you consider the correlation so accurate that you'd have sex with a man you don't love forever for health reasons? I don't think you would.

 

[ChristineM]

Sometimes I judge by numbers. 1 million abortions of unwanted babies vs. how many incel suicides, do you think?

Be cautious about confusing correlation and causation. If you're sure intercourse is better for female bladder control than abstinence, would you consider the correlation so accurate that you'd have sex with a man you don't love forever for health reasons? I don't think you would.

Only you are using emotional terms here, fetus's are not babies. And of course unwanted pregnancy and hence abortion occur after marriage too.

Straw man.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, Bahá’u’lláh - Messenger of God just states that the afterlife will be different. He doesn't state how. That means that God did not tell him. God did not want anyone to know. Yet you take it upon yourself to assert that you do know. You even admit that your knowledge comes secular sources and from your logical mind.

No, that does NOT mean that God did not tell Baha’u’llah. Baha’u’llah possessed full knowledge of the afterlife but He withheld it from us. Baha’u’llah did not want anyone to know, and He explained why (bold below):

“Know thou that every hearing ear, if kept pure and undefiled, must, at all times and from every direction, hearken to the voice that uttereth these holy words: “Verily, we are God’s, and to Him shall we return.” The mysteries of man’s physical death and of his return have not been divulged, and still remain unread. By the righteousness of God! Were they to be revealed, they would evoke such fear and sorrow that some would perish, while others would be so filled with gladness as to wish for death, and beseech, with unceasing longing, the one true God—exalted be His glory—to hasten their end.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 345

I do not assert that I know what the afterlife will be like, I only assert that there will be no physical bodies in the afterlife, because that is what Abdu’l-Baha wrote. I don’t “know” what the afterlife will be like, nobody knows, but I “believe” that some of the accounts might be accurate depictions.

So, Page 157 He's ambiguous, by page 194 he's specific. That inconsistency shows confusion on the part of the writer.

It was not the same writer. Baha’u’llah was ambiguous and then later Abdu’l-Baha was more specific.

Are you clairvoyant? How do you determine their motives? Please name one psychic who you believe is not a con (wo)man because you have determined their motives.

By the way, all the people who wrote the books were not psychics and the people who got communication from the spiritual world were not psychics, they were mediums.

Con-men or con-women have financial motives and most of them don’t write books, because they can make more money other ways.

I do not know anyone’s motives unless they tell me. The man who wrote The Afterlife Revealed stated his motives and I believe him. It makes no sense that his motive would be money given what he wrote and it certainly makes no sense that Swedenborg’s motive was money, because he was a scientist before that and he could have been making a lot more money in that work.

 

[Trailblazer]

So you somehow believe that switching an atheist to a god believer doesn't fall under the umbrella of conversion.

I am not trying to convert anyone. I just respond to posts. People ASK me about my beliefs or why I believe in God and I respond. Many atheists say they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence. i just share what "I consider" to be evidence. I am a firm believer in free will so people need to make their own choices what to believe or disbelieve.

This is the kind of nonsense that you believe! That "Baha'u'llah revealed that information to this man's mind".

Yes, I believe it. There is no reason not to believe it. Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God so He performed miracles just like Jesus so of course He could communicate to a man's mind.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Only you are using emotional terms here, fetus's are not babies. And of course unwanted pregnancy and hence abortion occur after marriage too.

Straw man.

It's a straw man to say "incel suicides are far less of a rate/concern than millions of babies aborted" and "you don't have to have sex to have good health outcomes"?

 

[JJ50]

Only you are using emotional terms here, fetus's are not babies. And of course unwanted pregnancy and hence abortion occur after marriage too.

Straw man.

Good post.

 

[ChristineM]

It's a straw man to say "incel suicides are far less of a rate/concern than millions of babies aborted" and "you don't have to have sex to have good health outcomes"?

Nope, but you said, and i quote "Be cautious about confusing correlation and causation. If you're sure intercourse is better for female bladder control than abstinence, would you consider the correlation so accurate that you'd have sex with a man you don't love forever for health reasons? I don't think you would."

That was your straw man and you know it

Correct you dont need sex for good health but it is shown statistically that sex is beneficial for good health. Meaning that if you are prone to good health then improvement in health is a possiblity, but if you are prone to poor health then regular sex will improve your health in many ways.

So how many die of heart problems, circulation problems or prostate cancer because they abstain from sex is unknown (i would guess many thousands). It is known that men who abstain from sex are twice as likely to get prostate cancer. Considering it is estimated that over 180,000 men die of prostate cancer each year even with a high and increasing diagnosis and cure rate. It seems that prostate cancer deaths alone from abstaining from sex is not as insignificant as you would like to think.

BTW, if you are a male aged 45 or over can i suggest that you request a simple blood test to measure PSA, (Prostate Specific Antigen) it xan save your life.

 

[JJ50]

Nope, but you said, and i quote "Be cautious about confusing correlation and causation. If you're sure intercourse is better for female bladder control than abstinence, would you consider the correlation so accurate that you'd have sex with a man you don't love forever for health reasons? I don't think you would."

That was your straw man and you know it

Correct you dont need sex for good health but it is shown statistically that sex is beneficial for good health. Meaning that if you are prone to good health then improvement in health is a possiblity, but if you are prone to poor health then regular sex will improve your health in many ways.

So how many die of heart problems, circulation problems or prostate cancer because they abstain from sex is unknown (i would guess many thousands). It is known that men who abstain from sex are twice as likely to get prostate cancer. Considering it is estimated that over 180,000 men die of prostate cancer each year even with a high and increasing diagnosis and cure rate. It seems that prostate cancer deaths alone from abstaining from sex is not as insignificant as you would like to think.

BTW, if you are a male aged 45 or over can i suggest that you request a simple blood test to measure PSA, (Prostate Specific Antigen) it xan save your life.

A sensible post.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Nope, but you said, and i quote "Be cautious about confusing correlation and causation. If you're sure intercourse is better for female bladder control than abstinence, would you consider the correlation so accurate that you'd have sex with a man you don't love forever for health reasons? I don't think you would."

That was your straw man and you know it

Correct you dont need sex for good health but it is shown statistically that sex is beneficial for good health. Meaning that if you are prone to good health then improvement in health is a possiblity, but if you are prone to poor health then regular sex will improve your health in many ways.

So how many die of heart problems, circulation problems or prostate cancer because they abstain from sex is unknown (i would guess many thousands). It is known that men who abstain from sex are twice as likely to get prostate cancer. Considering it is estimated that over 180,000 men die of prostate cancer each year even with a high and increasing diagnosis and cure rate. It seems that prostate cancer deaths alone from abstaining from sex is not as insignificant as you would like to think.

BTW, if you are a male aged 45 or over can i suggest that you request a simple blood test to measure PSA, (Prostate Specific Antigen) it xan save your life.

So you are "suspecting" several thousand people die annually from lack of sex (rolls eyes, wonders why Christine is justifying incels crushing women and "blue balls" whiners) but that's not preferred to killing 1,000,000 babies annually... (rolls eyes, wonders why Christine says I'm giving straw men).

 

[JJ50]

So you are "suspecting" several thousand people die annually from lack of sex (rolls eyes, wonders why Christine is justifying incels crushing women and "blue balls" whiners) but that's not preferred to killing 1,000,000 babies annually... (rolls eyes, wonders why Christine says I'm giving straw men).

You want to ask your version of god why it killed so many children, or encouraged their massacre?

 

[ChristineM]

So you are "suspecting" several thousand people die annually from lack of sex (rolls eyes, wonders why Christine is justifying incels crushing women and "blue balls" whiners) but that's not preferred to killing 1,000,000 babies annually... (rolls eyes, wonders why Christine says I'm giving straw men).

WTF are you rabbiting about, i gave facts, just because you ignore prostate cancer does not make it go away. Whiners? It is the second biggest killer of men in the world. Not comprehending reality may be your problem here.

Note, if you are a god believer, the biggest cause of spontaneous abortion, miscarriage etc is god. You are close, have word with him about it.

Oh but wait, your god is the guy who willingly killed every single feotus on planet earth during the supposed flood, Sheesh a million feotus's annually is small change to him.


Also note. A feotus is not a child, said it before, will say it again. You may misrepresent to appeal to emotion but it does not help your case when you are not being factual

 

[ecco]

“Know thou that every hearing ear, if kept pure and undefiled, must, at all times and from every direction, hearken to the voice that uttereth these holy words: “Verily, we are God’s, and to Him shall we return.” The mysteries of man’s physical death and of his return have not been divulged, and still remain unread. By the righteousness of God! Were they to be revealed, they would evoke such fear and sorrow that some would perish, while others would be so filled with gladness as to wish for death, and beseech, with unceasing longing, the one true God—exalted be His glory—to hasten their end.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 345

It was not the same writer. Baha’u’llah was ambiguous and then later Abdu’l-Baha was more specific.

Bahá’u’lláh said it should not be revealed. If Bahá’u’lláh did not reveal it, how could Abdu’l-Baha be more specific? If Abdu’l-Baha was more specific when Bahá’u’lláh did not want it revealed, isn't Abdu’l-Baha going against the wishes of Bahá’u’lláh?

 

[ecco]

All psychics are not con men. Some are legitimate. We can distinguish them by looking at their motives.

Are you clairvoyant? How do you determine their motives? Please name one psychic who you believe is not a con (wo)man because you have determined their motives.

By the way, all the people who wrote the books were not psychics and the people who got communication from the spiritual world were not psychics, they were mediums.

That's a nonsensical comment.

What’s the Difference Between a Psychic and a Medium? - Sharon Farber
Many people are confused as to how a medium differs from a psychic. This is complicated by the fact that mediums are psychic, some psychics are mediums, and many people offer both psychic and mediumship readings, sometimes in the same session.​

Con-men or con-women have financial motives and most of them don’t write books, because they can make more money other ways.

You really should do a little research before posting. Uri Geller, one of the best-known psychics, wrote over a dozen books. Writing books is easy, especially using a ghost-writer. The books sell because of the notoriety of the author. Easy extra money. There are hundreds of books written by psychics on Amazon

I do not know anyone’s motives unless they tell me.

That's not what you said earlier:

"We can distinguish them by looking at their motives."

​

The man who wrote The Afterlife Revealed stated his motives and I believe him. It makes no sense that his motive would be money given what he wrote

Uh huh.

Michael E. Tymn - RationalWikiTymn is a 1958 graduate of the San Jose State University School of Journalism. He has contributed more than 1,500 articles to 40 publications over the past 50 years although the majority of these publications are paranormal related. His metaphysical and paranormal articles appear in FATE, Mysteries, Atlantis Rising, Vital Signs, Venture Inward, Nexus, Psychic News, Psychic Times and the Christian Parapsychologist. He is currently resident of Kailua, Hawaii.

Tymn has a religious background and now describes himself as an "unorthodox Christian".[3] He co-runs White Crow Books, a spiritualist publishing company that claims fraudulent historical mediums were genuine.[4]​

 

[ecco]

I am not trying to convert anyone. I just respond to posts. People ASK me about my beliefs or why I believe in God and I respond.

Nonsense. You've already stated that while your friends are lounging on the beach, you are here because you feel it is your calling to save others.

Many atheists say they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence.

Name one. Show where he/she said "they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence." That isn't what atheists say. That's what theists would like to believe atheists say.

Yes, I believe it. There is no reason not to believe it. Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God so He performed miracles just like Jesus so of course He could communicate to a man's mind.

It's that kind of belief system that makes me thank god that I'm an atheist.