Sex before marriage?????

[ecco]

"What is the price for a seven-year-old; two cows?" is a serious question? I don't think so. Especially given the assumption that my family is from India.

The assumption is based on your avatar picture which I believe is of Krishna. Your religion is listed as Hindu. Your taglines are in Indian. You alluded to your grandparent's bride purchase, a practice common in India. So, it was more of an educated guess than an assumption.

Yes, my original comment was laced with sarcasm. Your Vulcan response was...well you could have done better.

 

[Spartan]

First ya gotta show there really was a Christ. One way to do that would be to show what anyone contemporaneously wrote about him.

Why don't you folks ever do your homework?

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas; "New Evidence that Demands a Verdict," by former skeptic Josh McDowell; "Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics," by Dr. Norman Geisler; "The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and "The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr, Gary Habermas.

 

[Jainarayan]

The assumption is based on your avatar picture which I believe is of Krishna. Your religion is listed as Hindu. Your taglines are in Indian. You alluded to your grandparent's bride purchase, a practice common in India. So, it was more of an educated guess than an assumption.

Yes, my original comment was laced with sarcasm. Your Vulcan response was...well you could have done better.

This is why assumptions and generalizations are so often wrong. Let's review...

• My avatar is indeed Krishna.
• I am Hindu, but I am Italian-American. I embraced Hinduism as a religion and way of life. My name is a genuine Hindi male name but isn't my real name.
• I use Sanskrit phrases, Sanskrit being the liturgical language of Hinduism.
• The grandfather referred to is @Aupmanyav's grandfather. They are Indian.
• I thought the Vulcan response was pretty good as a tie-in to my example of the arranged marriage between Spock and T'Pring.

As for why I'm not entirely opposed to arranged marriages: they bring couples together that may never have met otherwise, for a variety of reasons.

• Distance. They just may never have met without a little outside help
• One or both parties might be "socially awkward" and wouldn't take the initiative to look for a partner.
• Preliminary groundwork of the families knowing the likes and dislikes of the prospective partners.

I think there's a certain logic and benefit to it. It seems there's been a conflation of child-marriage and arranged marriages between families, and "selling" children into marriages. I can't think of any society where two children are actually married and set up a household, sex and all. That's something I don't hold with.

 

[David T]

So different churches and different religions do different things.

However , the Evangelical conservative Christian church many not all have a certain values before marriage rules. I am not picking on Christianity, there are probably other religions who have stricter rules.So if anyone from other religions have certain view points don't be afraid to share them.

It was popular to have Christian parents for while back to pick out the spouse for their child. Also many only date someone if they are going to marry them. Dating around is not accepted.

Many many Christians do not believe ins ex before marriage , and someone do not even believe in touching before marriage!

Christians say statistics prove the loner you wait on sex the better your sex life will be, this maybe true statistics I don't know.

I will say this for me, noway am I getting involved with a man who does not want to touch me before marriage nope!I think having sex before marriage is a good thing for me. I am not waiting and I want to be able to trust my spouse that we are right for each other in bed as well as out.

So whats you belief set on sex before marriage and also how you date? By dating I mean, is dating around ok? Do you select your child's spouse? Do you just date to marry only? If you don't have sex before marriage are you aloud to hold hands hug kiss that type of thing? What about oral sex or 3rd base?

Oh who cares i am more concerned about sex after marriage.

 

[Jainarayan]

Why don't you folks ever do your homework?

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas; "New Evidence that Demands a Verdict," by former skeptic Josh McDowell; "Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics," by Dr. Norman Geisler; "The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and "The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr, Gary Habermas.

Why is it so important for some Christians to go to such great lengths to prove the historicity and veracity of the Bible and/or Jesus? Whom are they trying to convince, themselves or others? Why is there such a desire and need to have ironclad proof and evidence of the veracity of the Bible? Why such extensive apologetics? If their faith that shaky?

 

[Aupmanyav]

You alluded to your grandparent's bride purchase, a practice common in India.

Yeah, it was me and not Jai whose grandparents were married at an early age (that was normal at that time). It was what we call an arranged marriage, but it did not involve any purchase. And as I mentioned, the bride makes a notional visit to her husbands house. My grandmother was accompanied by her father and my great grandfather carried her on his shoulders (the approach to our ancestral house involved a steeply inclined road). But then she returned to her place. The consummation of marriage takes place years later (perhaps 10 years later, my grand parents never told me exactly when). This tradition is known as 'Gauna' in India, the coming of a woman to her husbands place after she has grown up. Gauna - Wikipedia

Even now most marriages are arranged in India (acceptance by the couple and their parents that the match is good), but child marriage is practically absent. Child marriage and bride purchase happens at the lowest economic strata of the society.

 

[Trailblazer]

I did not have sex for ages. That craving disappears rather quick in my experience (or my Master took it away maybe). So when you are in the afterlife for eternity, after a few years your craving will be gone anyway. And who worries about a few years, when being there for eternity?

Yes, the desire diminishes and finally it is gone altogether. Of course I am only speaking for myself, it might be different for other people.

The physical craving might be gone in the afterlife but people might continue to think about sex; for how long, I don’t know. It could be a short time or it could be for eternity. It all depends upon how attached they are to sex.

 

[Trailblazer]

Or, some people just got stuck with someone who wasn't all that interested in sex to begin with.

That was not the case for me, but he needed a lot of OJT.

Thank god I'm going to hell.

You are a funny man, or maybe you are serious.

So do you think there will be sex in hell? There might be thinking about it but there won’t be any doing it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Nonsense. Arousal can be entirely mental. Orgasm can be entirely mental.

Then it isn’t orgasm, unless you know something I don’t know.

 

[Prestor John]

Are you saying that it is not part of LDS to instruct the young on what to say about scripture?

We have a curriculum in our Sunday Schools, Auxiliary meetings, Seminary and Institute classes.

We also encourage daily personal study.

Why do you imply that receiving instruction is the same as people doing what they are told?

Do you apply this standard to all fields of study?

Every student of any field is merely an automaton?

Are you saying that all your knowledge and understanding of scripture came from your own reading?You never attended classes where other people "interpreted" scripture for you?

No, not at all.

Sharing how one interprets the scriptures is how we can become edified and also edify others.

We should seek out any and all interpretations, ponder on them, study them out and ultimately take them to the Lord in prayer with the hope of receiving revelation through the Holy Spirit.

It is only through revelation that we can come to know the truth of these things.

Are you saying that you, yourself, went against LDS teaching and had a bad experience? Or are you saying you heard of someone?

All you need to do is look at the world and it's problems.

So much suffering and heartache would be avoided if people saved themselves for their eternal mate.

If only a single generation were to avoid premarital sex the number of unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted disease would plummet to nearly nothing.

That is not even to mention all the hurt and rejection avoided as well.

"If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." (John 7:17)

That would be nice. Does that mindset also rule out divorce?

It is my belief that only the breaking of marriage covenants can warrant divorce.

These include fornication and abuse.

I believe LDS allows divorce.

We believe that all people are free. The Church cannot force anyone to marry, so it obviously cannot force anyone to stay married.

It is discouraged and Church leadership will try to help the couple reconcile before divorce is considered, except for the breaking of marriage covenants, like I mentioned above.

I also know that until recently LDS believed in polygamous marriages. That kinda obviates "the husband and the wife" scenario doesn't it?

How so?

Any child born from that father would have only the one mother. Both of whom are married to each other.

Are these the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ as stated in the Christian NT or teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ as depicted in the missing Golden Tablets? I'm asking because I really don't know.

Both. The teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ are eternal and unchanging.

Both the New Testament and the Book of Mormon (Golden Plates) contain the same teachings and Gospel.

The Book of Mormon is simply another witness of the same teachings recorded by a different people who lived upon the North American continent.

Also, the Golden Plates are not "missing", they were returned to the angel Moroni, who in mortality, was the man who had deposited the plates into the earth on the Hill Cummorah.

Eternal truths? Did these truths exist 2100 years ago?

They have existed since before the Earth was formed.

Are these the truths attested to in the OT? What about before the OT?

That would depend on who you ask.

I believe that they were taught in the Old Testament.

No, the teachings of the LDS do not override science.

To what "science" are you referring?

How did I contradict or override any scientific finding?

However, if you want to say "The LDS teaches that at a minimum, 3% of humans are born with a weakness towards same-sex attraction", that would probably be correct.

According to you, a person who has an attraction to the same-sex, but decides to only be romantically and sexually involved with members of the opposite sex would be a homosexual?

You are making it very obvious that LDS requires it's adherents to be ignorant of the true aspects of sexuality.

I do not see where I did this. Perhaps we merely disagree?

Religions just love guilt and sin.

I can't speak for other religions, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints loves neither of these things.

All people sin, therefore, all people feel guilt. They may feel it in differing magnitudes, depending on their perspective, but they still feel it because they sin.

We teach the truth of Christ so that people can avoid sin and therefore also avoid guilt.

Sin and guilt are weighing everyone down. If you come to know the truth and apply it in your life, you can cast off that extra weight and be free.

There are so many things that can be attached to that. There are so many ways religions can hammer people with that to keep them in line. I just picture a large herd of sheep being told where to go by twin dogs named Guilt and Sin. Just the two of them to keep the entire herd in line.

A very common and inaccurate picture.

It is the world that hammers people down. Keeps them bottled up. Unable to breathe.

Just look at the media and see what secularism has done to this world.

You can't voice your opinion without being branded a bigot, a racist, homophobic, xenophobic or what have you.

No, only you can recognize your weakness and thereby gain strength.

Recognition is only the first step and it is the one most people never take.

We are often too prideful to ever notice our weaknesses.

This is why we need Christ. He knows us better than we do and can therefore show us what we really are.

He can show us what we can do to become more like Him.

I don't care if you agree with the LDS Church or think we are all whack-jobs.

Just please learn of Christ. Come to know Him. Come to love Him.

He gave up everything for you because he truly knows and loves you.

 

[JJ50]

We have a curriculum in our Sunday Schools, Auxiliary meetings, Seminary and Institute classes.

We also encourage daily personal study.

Why do you imply that receiving instruction is the same as people doing what they are told?

Do you apply this standard to all fields of study?

Every student of any field is merely an automaton?

No, not at all.

Sharing how one interprets the scriptures is how we can become edified and also edify others.

We should seek out any and all interpretations, ponder on them, study them out and ultimately take them to the Lord in prayer with the hope of receiving revelation through the Holy Spirit.

It is only through revelation that we can come to know the truth of these things.

All you need to do is look at the world and it's problems.

So much suffering and heartache would be avoided if people saved themselves for their eternal mate.

If only a single generation were to avoid premarital sex the number of unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted disease would plummet to nearly nothing.

That is not even to mention all the hurt and rejection avoided as well.

"If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." (John 7:17)

It is my belief that only the breaking of marriage covenants can warrant divorce.

These include fornication and abuse.

We believe that all people are free. The Church cannot force anyone to marry, so it obviously cannot force anyone to stay married.

It is discouraged and Church leadership will try to help the couple reconcile before divorce is considered, except for the breaking of marriage covenants, like I mentioned above.

How so?

Any child born from that father would have only the one mother. Both of whom are married to each other.

Both. The teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ are eternal and unchanging.

Both the New Testament and the Book of Mormon (Golden Plates) contain the same teachings and Gospel.

The Book of Mormon is simply another witness of the same teachings recorded by a different people who lived upon the North American continent.

Also, the Golden Plates are not "missing", they were returned to the angel Moroni, who in mortality, was the man who had deposited the plates into the earth on the Hill Cummorah.

They have existed since before the Earth was formed.

That would depend on who you ask.

I believe that they were taught in the Old Testament.

To what "science" are you referring?

How did I contradict or override any scientific finding?

According to you, a person who has an attraction to the same-sex, but decides to only be romantically and sexually involved with members of the opposite sex would be a homosexual?

I do not see where I did this. Perhaps we merely disagree?

I can't speak for other religions, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints loves neither of these things.

All people sin, therefore, all people feel guilt. They may feel it in differing magnitudes, depending on their perspective, but they still feel it because they sin.

We teach the truth of Christ so that people can avoid sin and therefore also avoid guilt.

Sin and guilt are weighing everyone down. If you come to know the truth and apply it in your life, you can cast off that extra weight and be free.

A very common and inaccurate picture.

It is the world that hammers people down. Keeps them bottled up. Unable to breathe.

Just look at the media and see what secularism has done to this world.

You can't voice your opinion without being branded a bigot, a racist, homophobic, xenophobic or what have you.

Recognition is only the first step and it is the one most people never take.

We are often too prideful to ever notice our weaknesses.

This is why we need Christ. He knows us better than we do and can therefore show us what we really are.

He can show us what we can do to become more like Him.

I don't care if you agree with the LDS Church or think we are all whack-jobs.

Just please learn of Christ. Come to know Him. Come to love Him.

He gave up everything for you because he truly knows and loves you.

You are making a statement without any evidence to back it up. It is more than likely that chap, Jesus, stayed dead as soon as he drew his last breath.

 

[Prestor John]

You are making a statement without any evidence to back it up. It is more than likely that chap, Jesus, stayed dead as soon as he drew his last breath.

Would you be willing to actually tell me which statement you are referring to?

You keep making claims about me but have yet to clarify them when I ask.

 

[JJ50]

Would you be willing to actually tell me which statement you are referring to?

You keep making claims about me but have yet to clarify them when I ask.

Just please learn of Christ. Come to know Him. Come to love Him.

He gave up everything for you because he truly knows and loves you.

 

[Prestor John]

Just please learn of Christ. Come to know Him. Come to love Him.

He gave up everything for you because he truly knows and loves you.

That is something each of us has to find out for themselves.

You can't "prove" it to anyone.

L-O-L

 

[stvdv]

It would be more accurate to say, "At a minimum, 3% of humans are born with a weakness towards same-sex attraction."

No, the teachings of the LDS do not override science. However, if you want to say "The LDS teaches that at a minimum, 3% of humans are born with a weakness towards same-sex attraction", that would probably be correct.

Why you call it "weakness"? Feels bad to me (belittling and demeaning). Why not call it healthy sex appetite towards same-sex attraction?
Or you also call it "weakness" towards non-same-sex attraction? Then I understand why you use "weakness"

 

[BilliardsBall]

Tell that to your bible belt buddies

I didn't say "teaching abstinence or promoting abstinence" I said "abstinence".

Abstinence is 100% effective. Argue against that--I'm open.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The best way to force abstinence is male castration. Is that what you are proposing?

Other than that, How do you suggest enforcing abstinence?

I never suggested enforcing abstinence. Moral fiber helps--the kind of fiber built through trusting Jesus Christ.

 

[stvdv]

Interestingly the accolade for the highest rate of STDs and pregnancy of unmarried girls/women and poverty in America is the held by the bible belt?

Aha, that makes sense. "Bible God" of course knew what would happen at "Bible Belt"
Hence "Bible God" gave them so much advice on sex and stuff

 

[Spartan]

Why is it so important for some Christians to go to such great lengths to prove the historicity and veracity of the Bible and/or Jesus? Whom are they trying to convince, themselves or others? Why is there such a desire and need to have ironclad proof and evidence of the veracity of the Bible? Why such extensive apologetics? If their faith that shaky?

I just think that people who think the accounts of Jesus are myth ought to educate themselves so they don't look like fools when they hop out here.

 

[JJ50]

I never suggested enforcing abstinence. Moral fiber helps--the kind of fiber built through trusting Jesus Christ.

What is good about abstinence in a consenting adult relationship? For all we know Jesus might have had an active sex life, gay or straight.