Sex Before Marriage

[Draka]

I admire you for your beliefs, maybe I am weak? My wife and I had sex before marriage, once we were engaged....it just seemed natural, as far as we were concerned, our comitment was in the eyes of God.

Perfect, just perfect. All I can say. And I'm betting you didn't think you were hurting anyone by doing that did you? It was a mutual decision between two loving partners. That's what is important there...no?

 

[Bishka]

Perfect, just perfect. All I can say. And I'm betting you didn't think you were hurting anyone by doing that did you? It was a mutual decision between two loving partners. That's what is important there...no?

It defintley needs to be a mutual decision, but like I said, I believe God institued it to be in marriage only.

 

[michel]

Perfect, just perfect. All I can say. And I'm betting you didn't think you were hurting anyone by doing that did you? It was a mutual decision between two loving partners. That's what is important there...no?

Sorry, it sounds like you are being sarcastic; you disapprove ?

 

[dan]

but if you've never had sex, how do you know what you like in bed?

This is the same ridiculous excuse over and over again. You have to have sex for the first time at some point. You don't know what you like at that point, but you still enjoy it, do you not (unless you still struggle with the concept of walking upright)? It starts you on the way to discovering what you do like. Waiting till marriage means you get to start on that journey with your spouse, and they get to do the same. This is the most special and fun part of sex for every couple that waits to have sex. Nowhere on this planet is it written that a married couple must already have their sexual identities carved out. That does nothing but impede their intimacy.

I refer you to my earlier post. It went largely unnocticed, but I'd like all those who continue to spout pre-marital sex litany to respond to my points.

Sex is not what defines people. Sex is not the essence of me, and when you define your whole self as a sexual being you fragment your relationships. You define others as sexual beings and your relationships are based on sex. Unfortunately, sex is an extrinsic value and will not last forever, or even maintain the same value. This means your relationships live and die with your sex lives. This creates severe instability.

The other all-too-common cop-out is to say that cohabitation before-hand lets you basically test drive your partner. This also means the success of your relationship comes down to whether or not your distinct sex lives have happened to put the two of you at the same place at the same time. You do not grow together, you just hope to run into each other in the same arena of sexual compatibility. This means everything, again, hinges on sex - only this time your exclusive experiences have to match.

Waiting until marriage to have sex means two things. One, each person has developed no sexual identity, and it can then be developed together. The couple discovers their sexuality together and only between the two of them. Two, their sexuality is exclusively theirs. It is not the result of others interfering or influencing. There's no risk of being incompatible, because you both start at zero. This is, absolutely bar none, the strongest sexual link that can be developed between two human beings. This kind of intimacy cannot ever be imitated or reproduced, and this kind of intimacy is the greatest indicator of a healthy marriage.

Someone out there will, of course, say their best friend, or brother, or somebody got married without ever having sex and they were completely incompatible. There's always at least one who uses that ridiculous excuse as evidence. All that example means is that the people either 1) were defined by sex, or 2) were selfish with sex. It simply cannot mean anything else. Two people completely devoted to the happiness of the other cannot fail, sexually, if they both wait.

 

[Draka]

Sorry, it sounds like you are being sarcastic; you disapprove ?

Not at all Michel. Wasn't being sarcastic. Was being frank and honest. People seem to think it is so wrong here, yet you and your wife felt your commitment to each other before legal marriage was already recognized in God's eyes. Isn't that what is important anyway? I agree with you dear...not criticizing you.

 

[Draka]

Responses...you want responses? I can give you those...but as you seem to be ignoring me now, you will probably disregard my responses and find some way to try to insult them. But anyway,...here they go...

Sex is not what defines people. Sex is not the essence of me, and when you define your whole self as a sexual being you fragment your relationships. You define others as sexual beings and your relationships are based on sex. Unfortunately, sex is an extrinsic value and will not last forever, or even maintain the same value. This means your relationships live and die with your sex lives. This creates severe instability.

No one is "defining" their "whole self" as a sexual being. However, as I have stated before, we are mammals, mammals have sex drives, it is nature. So to deny that sex drives exist is nonsense. Every animal has criteria for mating partners. Mating calls, dances, battles...there is a reason for this. The strongest buck gets the doe, the most colorful bird with the best song gets the female, and so on and so forth. Sex IS a driving force in our lives and to put on religious blinders does not change this fact.

The other all-too-common cop-out is to say that cohabitation before-hand lets you basically test drive your partner. This also means the success of your relationship comes down to whether or not your distinct sex lives have happened to put the two of you at the same place at the same time. You do not grow together, you just hope to run into each other in the same arena of sexual compatibility. This means everything, again, hinges on sex - only this time your exclusive experiences have to match.

You do NOT want to be in the same place at the same time sexually most of the time. You talk about growth together, well, by each having different experiences or tastes in sexual behaviour and likes each gets to experience different things and learn new things they might like better that may improve their intimacy and enjoyment of each other. The thing is...by "test driving" you not only get to find out sexually what is what between two people, but the constant closeness allows you to perhaps see things about the other that you would otherwise not find out until after marriage. Things that may be too difficult to overcome. Better to find out before you lock yourself into something that may be all to difficult to reconcile.

Waiting until marriage to have sex means two things. One, each person has developed no sexual identity, and it can then be developed together. The couple discovers their sexuality together and only between the two of them. Two, their sexuality is exclusively theirs. It is not the result of others interfering or influencing. There's no risk of being incompatible, because you both start at zero. This is, absolutely bar none, the strongest sexual link that can be developed between two human beings. This kind of intimacy cannot ever be imitated or reproduced, and this kind of intimacy is the greatest indicator of a healthy marriage.

And what about those who are getting married and have sex before the ceremony? Why is the legallity of marriage so important to have between two loving partners? Why is it so hard to believe that a couple could remain together happily for many years or their whole lives and never get that peice of paper that says they are husband and wife? What about homosexuals who are currently denied the right to marry? What if they spend their entire lives together, faithful and loving? Should they never experience physically loving each other simply for the lack of a peice of paper? As for intimacy growing...refer to above response.

Someone out there will, of course, say their best friend, or brother, or somebody got married without ever having sex and they were completely incompatible. There's always at least one who uses that ridiculous excuse as evidence. All that example means is that the people either 1) were defined by sex, or 2) were selfish with sex. It simply cannot mean anything else. Two people completely devoted to the happiness of the other cannot fail, sexually, if they both wait.

Someone will of course say that they know someone who got married as a virgin and their spouse was as well and that they were completely happy. Vice versa, you can find all varieties of relationships whether they have had pre-marital sex or not that have turned out all different ways. Doesn't make any circumstance a "ridiculous excuse" and for you to classify statements you don't agree with as that just shows your naivety about life in and of itself. Sex can be pivotal to a person and that doesn't make them defined by sex or sexually selfish. If sex is painful, unenjoyable, unfullfilling, and so on then that person will be unhappy in a part of their relationship. To be unhappy in a part of a relationship provides a strain on a relationship itself. Have a serious relationship and you will undoubtedly see this for yourself. Why in the world do you think there are so many marriage counselors and sex counselors everywhere if it weren't important?

 

[Buttons*]

This is the same ridiculous excuse over and over again.

To you, perhaps

You have to have sex for the first time at some point.

Not if you decide to become a nun

You don't know what you like at that point, but you still enjoy it, do you not

Well, i wouldnt know, i havent had sex. I heard a first time was painful on the female side...

(unless you still struggle with the concept of walking upright)?

as a parapalegic, i fully resent that...

It starts you on the way to discovering what you do like. Waiting till marriage means you get to start on that journey with your spouse, and they get to do the same.

That's a sweet sentiment, it really is! And if sometime along the way you get divorced.....?

This is the most special and fun part of sex for every couple that waits to have sex.

How neat for them! I seriously doubt, however, that you've asked EVERY couple that waited that question and got a response.... so how do you know?

must[/i] already have their sexual identities carved out. That does nothing but impede their intimacy.

I dont remember saying that its written anywhere... And i dont remember saying that it will inhibit anyones intimacy...
You seem frustrated and angry... why is that?

 

[Buttons*]

Responses...you want responses? I can give you those...but as you seem to be ignoring me now, you will probably disregard my responses and find some way to try to insult them. But anyway,...here they go...


I have to spread more Karma before giving you more... poo!

 

[Mister_T]

That's a sweet sentiment, it really is! And if sometime along the way you get divorced.....?

I've brought this point up myself and have not heard a counter argument. Marriage is no different than dating someone when you put divorce into play. There's a lot of Christians that get divorced (which aside from death or marital unfaithfulness is clearly condemned in the Bible).

 

[Buttons*]

I've brought this point up myself and have not heard a counter argument. Marriage is no different than dating someone when you put divorce into play. There's a lot of Christians that get divorced (which aside from death or marital unfaithfulness is clearly condemned in the Bible).

thats what i think too. Marriage doesnt mean much this day and age. Its a shame....
But interestingly enough, the people of the Bible were not only polygamists, they had conqubines. So to say that the Bible teaches solid fidelity, that's just silly!

 

[Mister_T]

Nowhere on this planet is it written that a married couple must already have their sexual identities carved out. That does nothing but impede their intimacy.

This concept may work fine for a virgin couple. But it would not work with 2 people who are not virgins.

 

[turk179]

You're statement is void of any explanation of your conclusion, you just say, "This is the way it is."

That is horrible. Glad you haven't done that yet.:sarcastic

It's too bad you don't understand the sanctity or the importance of the act of love.

How would you know?

Yeah, what does that say about your character?

You don't have any right to talk about a persons character in this situation.

I refer you to my earlier post. It went largely unnocticed, but I'd like all those who continue to spout pre-marital sex litany to respond to my points.

Why should anyone bother. It is blatantly obvious that several people including myself have answered your questions exactly the way you wanted but you refuse to acknowledge those responces.

Dan, I respect your beliefs even though I don't agree with you, but you can not expect everyone to buy into your main argument. You may believe that some or all of our arguments are ridiculous but they have merit and there is no denying that.

 

[Mister_T]

thats what i think too. Marriage doesnt mean much this day and age. Its a shame....

That it is

 

[Mister_T]

My wife and I had sex before marriage, once we were engaged....it just seemed natural, as far as we were concerned, our comitment was in the eyes of God.

BINGO! Michel, you hit the nail on the head! The key word here is "natural". You guys were in love and comitted to each other and it felt natural to express your love for one another. No guilt, no shame, therefore no problem. If you are doing something that God doesn't like, he will let YOU know.(he has ALWAYS let me know).

 

[Mister_T]

maybe I am weak?

Not at all buddy.

 

[Buttons*]

BINGO! Michel, you hit the nail on the head! The key word here is "natural". You guys were in love and comitted to each other and it felt natural to express your love for one another. No guilt, no shame, therefore no problem. If you are doing something that God doesn't like, he will let YOU know.(he has ALWAYS let me know).

yeah, that leads to another question:
Who are we to decide that marriage has to be the way it is? Does it ever give an actual marriage ceremony in the Bible at all?

 

[Bishka]

yeah, that leads to another question:
Who are we to decide that marriage has to be the way it is? Does it ever give an actual marriage ceremony in the Bible at all?

No, and I wish I could tell you everything I know. In the temple many things are taught, and the relationship/marriage/etc. between Adam and Eve is one of them. I believe many things have been taken out of the Bible and that was one of them.

 

[Buttons*]

No, and I wish I could tell you everything I know. In the temple many things are taught, and the relationship/marriage/etc. between Adam and Eve is one of them. I believe many things have been taken out of the Bible and that was one of them.

so the LDS church has an account of what marriage ceremonies should consist of?

 

[Bishka]

so the LDS church has an account of what marriage ceremonies should consist of?

Yes. That's what I believe.

 

[Buttons*]

Yes. That's what I believe.

thats pretty neat, could you cite it? If not, its all good.