Sex Before Marriage

[Mister_T]

If I may be so bold as to point something out......it's actually quite obvious: marriage is really about one thing, and it's not a wedding ceremony, it's not having a priest marry you, it's not even---gasp!---entirely about sex. It's about commitment. Making a promise to someone, to love and care for them for the rest of one's life. That's why I think so many marriages these days should never have been marriages in the first place. With divorce so common, it's plain to see a lot of people don't take their marriage vows seriously. The marriage ceremony itself is really just a man-made ritual to outwardly show the covenant that is being sealed between two people.

So what does this have to do with pre-marital sex? Sex, I believe, is cheapened when it is not confined to marriage. These days that is an unpopular view, but I stick to it. Without a promise, and committment, established between two people beforehand, sex is on very shaky ground. The truest intimacy between a couple, expressed physically through sex, can really only be experienced if both people are secure in the knowledge that the other person is committed to them.

Let me use friendship as an example of what I am talking about in regards to intimacy and security. The closest friends, the ones we are vulnerable to, and can truly be ourselves around, are the ones we know we can trust----the ones who have proven the depth of their love and committment to us through their actions. They are faithful to us. Marriage works the same way. It is meant to be the most intimate of friendships, and the only way that intimacy can occur is if both people are faithful to each other, and feel secure with each other. I'm actually stating the obvious here. By having sex before marriage, or outside of marriage, one is devaluing oneself, and the other person. It becomes a cheapened, more selfish act, and less about intimacy.

Having said all that.........we are all flawed and mess up. God forgives. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't at least strive for the ideal that was meant for us.

Beautifully stated :clap

 

[Bishka]

Beautifully stated :clap

Exactly.

I am done commenting on this subject, because the people who are arguing against my view, do not care abou tmy view, they don't seem to really want to know why. They just tend to pick apart and tell me I am wrong. I do admit, I have said they are wrong, but I ask why they feel that way. I want to know why. Anyways, I'm done on this subject.

 

[mingmty]

Exactly.

I am done commenting on this subject, because the people who are arguing against my view, do not care abou tmy view, they don't seem to really want to know why. They just tend to pick apart and tell me I am wrong. I do admit, I have said they are wrong, but I ask why they feel that way. I want to know why. Anyways, I'm done on this subject.

When s2a said

I'm right.
You're wrong.
My personal understanding explains it.
You'll just have to take my word for it.

Not very illuminating, compelling, or persuasive, is it?

He was being sarcastic, that means he was just showing how ridiculous your comment was by saying essentially just what you said. You have shown no proof of your ideas as you stated later, saying that LDS temples can explain what you are saying without quoting or given feedback doesn't allow us to understand why do you feel the way you do.

... the people who are arguing against my view, do not care abou tmy view ... but I ask why they feel that way ...

It's OK if you don't want to comment anymore, your call, but don't throw that kind of stuff to us, it was your choice to keep silent. It's OK if you ignore my comments but stating you will do it because I don't know to have a conversation (when you are the one who isn't expressing himself) is quite offensive.

 

[linwood]

I find it odd that divorce rates of atheists agnostics who don`t abide by any religious doctrine that prohibits pre-marital sex are lower than the Christian population in general.

Atheists and agnostics do tend to cohabitate before marriage.

The Momon divorce rate itelf is 24% while the rate among non-believers is 20%.

 

[Bishka]

When s2a said He was being sarcastic, that means he was just showing how ridiculous your comment was by saying essentially just what you said. You have shown no proof of your ideas as you stated later, saying that LDS temples can explain what you are saying without quoting or given feedback doesn't allow us to understand why do you feel the way you do.

It's OK if you don't want to comment anymore, your call, but don't throw that kind of stuff to us, it was your choice to keep silent. It's OK if you ignore my comments but stating you will do it because I don't know to have a conversation (when you are the one who isn't expressing himself) is quite offensive.

You know, I'd tell you what LDS temples ceremonies were all about, but I can't and you can't take my word for it. I feel the way I do because of those ceremonies and what is taught in the temple. That's all I can tell you, PLEASE RESPECT THAT. I am expressing myself as much as I can possibly. Just because I can't tell you something doesn't mean you can say it doesn't count.

 

[Bishka]

I find it odd that divorce rates of atheists agnostics who don`t abide by any religious doctrine that prohibits pre-marital sex are lower than the Christian population in general.

Atheists and agnostics do tend to cohabitate before marriage.

The Momon divorce rate itelf is 24% while the rate among non-believers is 20%.

The momons? Who are they pray tell, and where is this statistic coming from? Like everybody asked me, I want PROOF.

 

[Beautiful Midnight Kisses]

I find it odd that divorce rates of atheists agnostics who don`t abide by any religious doctrine that prohibits pre-marital sex are lower than the Christian population in general.

Atheists and agnostics do tend to cohabitate before marriage.

The Momon divorce rate itelf is 24% while the rate among non-believers is 20%.

Interesting, Interesting. Linwood, I assume that you are an atheist, no?

May I ask where you have gotten your so-called statistics, I agree in part with beckysoup61, you ask her to prove it, where are you proofs?

 

[nutshell]

I find it odd that divorce rates of atheists agnostics who don`t abide by any religious doctrine that prohibits pre-marital sex are lower than the Christian population in general.

Atheists and agnostics do tend to cohabitate before marriage.

The Momon divorce rate itelf is 24% while the rate among non-believers is 20%.

Post your sources, Linwood. You know we'll jump all over this one.

My liberal psych. class even taught cohabitation before marriage increases chances of divorce.

 

[nutshell]

Interesting, Interesting. Linwood, I assume that you are an atheist, no?

May I ask where you have gotten your so-called statistics, I agree in part with beckysoup61, you ask her to prove it, where are you proofs?

Beautiful Midnight Kisses...I love your name and your avatar!

 

[Beautiful Midnight Kisses]

Why thank you ever so much Nutshell. I like yours, I've always loved Stonehedge(or is it henge), I feel stupid now!

 

[mingmty]

You know, I'd tell you what LDS temples ceremonies were all about, but I can't and you can't take my word for it. I feel the way I do because of those ceremonies and what is taught in the temple. That's all I can tell you, PLEASE RESPECT THAT. I am expressing myself as much as I can possibly. Just because I can't tell you something doesn't mean you can say it doesn't count.

I didn't want to be rude, just found offensive your comment about we being ignoring you and not caring about your belifs since you didn't say anything about them, that's all, let's leave it at peace I guess I will research about it online because I'm not willing to enter a LDS church for I don't share its belifs.

 

[mingmty]

The momons? Who are they pray tell, and where is this statistic coming from? Like everybody asked me, I want PROOF.

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]11% of the adult population is currently divorced.[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]25% of adults have had at least one divorce during their lifetime.[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significently higher than for other faith groups, and for Atheists and Agnostics.[/font]

Variation in divorce rates among Christian faith groups:
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate)[/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]% who have been divorced[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Non-denominational (small conservative groups; independents) = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]34%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Baptists = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]29%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Mainline Protestants = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]25%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Mormons = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]24%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Catholics = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]21%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Lutherans = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]21%[/font]

Variation in divorce rates by religion:
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Religion[/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]% have been divorced[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jews = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]30%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Born-again Christians = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]27%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Other Christians = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]24%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Atheists, Agnostics = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]21%[/font]


[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]SOURCE: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
[/font]

 

[Bishka]

I didn't want to be rude, just found offensive your comment about we being ignoring you and not caring about your belifs since you didn't say anything about them, that's all, let's leave it at peace I guess I will research about it online because I'm not willing to enter a LDS church for I don't share its belifs.

I am sorry. I should say that. I just felt that you were asking me to prove what I believe. I was, as much as I possibly could without saying things that would break my promise and covenant with my Heavenly Father.

I would love to share everything I know with you, but I can't.

 

[Pah]

Barna's September 2004 report entiltled "Born Again Christians Just As Likely to Divorce As Are Non-Christians" This is the report of the survey Religious Tolerance likely used. http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=170

One other survey was done August 2001 entitled "Born Again Adults Less Likely to Co-Habit, Just as Likely to Divorce" http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=95

 

[nutshell]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]11% of the adult population is currently divorced.[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]25% of adults have had at least one divorce during their lifetime.[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significently higher than for other faith groups, and for Atheists and Agnostics.[/font]

Variation in divorce rates among Christian faith groups:
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate)[/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]% who have been divorced[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Non-denominational (small conservative groups; independents) = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]34%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Baptists = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]29%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Mainline Protestants = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]25%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Mormons = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]24%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Catholics = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]21%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Lutherans = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]21%[/font]

Variation in divorce rates by religion:
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Religion[/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]% have been divorced[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jews = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]30%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Born-again Christians = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]27%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Other Christians = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]24%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Atheists, Agnostics = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]21%[/font]


[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]SOURCE: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
[/font]

The 24% indicated for Mormons does not represent Mormons actually practicing their faith and getting married in the temple. The divorce rate for temple marriages is 6%, extremely low.

sources: http://www.ldsweddings.com/articles/la_times.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Facet.shtml#div

 

[linwood]

The momons? Who are they pray tell, and where is this statistic coming from? Like everybody asked me, I want PROOF.

May I ask where you have gotten your so-called statistics, I agree in part with beckysoup61, you ask her to prove it, where are you proofs?

Post your sources, Linwood. You know we'll jump all over this one.

I was refered to the stats in the Barna study through religioustolerance.org as mingmty and Pah have already pasted for me.
Thanks.

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=170

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=95

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Non-denominational (small conservative groups; independents) = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]34%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Baptists = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]29%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Mainline Protestants = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]25%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Mormons = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]24%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Catholics = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]21%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Lutherans = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]21%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jews = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]30%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Born-again Christians = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]27%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Other Christians = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]24%[/font]
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Atheists, Agnostics = [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]21%

Average believers who divorce 26%
Non-Believers who divorce 21%

I was off by a percentage point, I was quoting from memory.
I`ve had this discussion before..alot.

It just makes sense that living together before marriage would teach couples alot about each other before they commit.

It`s also a fact that people who marry at a young age are far more likely than those who marry later in life to divorce.
This is because when you are older you understand yourself more and understanding a partner comes easier.
Compromise is easier, communication is of a higher quality, and an understanding of how the world works makes everything easier.

People who wait for marriage to have sex tend to marry young because who wants to be a virgin at 30?
These marriages don`t generally last.


[/font]

 

[Pah]

The 24% indicated for Mormons does not represent Mormons actually practicing their faith and getting married in the temple. The divorce rate for temple marriages is 6%, extremely low.

sources: http://www.ldsweddings.com/articles/la_times.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Facet.shtml#div

Your second link:

Divorce. People without religious affiliation have high divorce rates: 39% for men and 45% for women (divorced at least once). "Mormons have the lowest percentage ever divorced with values of 14 for men and 19 for women." Divorce rates plummet for those married in the Temple, with 5.4% for men and 6.5% for women.

We know the first statement is not correct. Although I'm not prepared to say the Mormon figures are bogus, it does show that quoting the temple marriage divorces is misleading - it does not reflect Mormon total divorces.

Google did not lead me to any other figures then what was provided as a result of the Barna survey.

 

[Bishka]

Your second link:We know the first statement is not correct. Although I'm not prepared to say the Mormon figures are bogus, it does show that quoting the temple marriage divorces is misleading - it does not reflect Mormon total divorces.

Google did not lead me to any other figures then what was provided as a result of the Barna survey.

Thank you. This is what were trying to point out. That the percentage of card-carying temple attending, temple-married Mormons is extremley low. EXTREMLEY LOW. I wonder why that is?

 

[linwood]

People without religious affiliation have high divorce rates: 39% for men and 45% for women (divorced at least once).

The stats at Jeff Lindseys are an absolute fabrication.
It`s unfortunately not the first fabrication I`ve found there.

 

[Bishka]

The stats at Jeff Lindseys are an absolute fabrication.
It`s unfortunately not the first fabrication I`ve found there.

I've heard those statistics other places also. The LDS Church has many statistics, and I believe I've heard that in a couple of General Conferences, so they aren't a fabrication. What do you have against the LDS Church anyways?