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Sexuality and Choice...

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
It is not an inherent "right." If the benefits of a certain "right" (as you claim) do not apply to people outside of a certain status (marriage) then it is NOT a right, It is a privilege of that status.
also by your argument, you believe than a husband and wife with children are useless. I would have to say you seriously don't know what you are talking about.


You claim the current laws are unfair, However they are not, the protect the rights of all individuals regardless of who they are. You misunderstand what are inherent rights and what are privileges.



you are ignorant of the facts.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html the bottom ~100 countries out of ~200 have fertility rates of less than 2 per woman. The United States is currently 2.05.
Excerpt - Global fertility rates are in general decline and this trend is most pronounced in industrialized countries, especially Western Europe, where populations are projected to decline dramatically over the next 50 years.

Then i suggest you do real research and look at the facts before making ignorant statements as to the myth of overpopulation.
+

forget about outside western europe huh?

Let the poor in other countries DIE....

how uh, Christian of you
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Now stop being silly, its painful. Overpopulation is not as one dimensional as you think it is.


sadly all his arguments are one dimensional....

but nice try

It reminds me of christians that can quote the bible, but only 5 passages, and make it seem like they know everythign in the bible....
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
What is it exactly (specifically) that homosexual couple's don't equally contribute to society?

Spandex

everyone knows hetero couples use more spandex

SPANDEX.png
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
And the vast majority of baby poppers... erm... highly contributing members of society:cover:...
would rather keep homosexuals from adopting babies into loving, nurturing homes,
to leave these children instead unsettled and unloved in foster care and orphanages...
while they themselves are busy contributing:rolleyes: ever more... and more... and more...
(to the problem).


Its a pity we cant do things like they do with pet cats really
Irresponsible breeding is a terrible thing imo
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
How is it not more important than anything else? The continuation of the species is what we are designed to do at a fundamental level. any inhibition of that fundamental human trait is either:
A) Flawed or defective, or
B) Silly and ungrateful choices.
Baloney. Society prospers best when some reproduce and some do not. Lower birth rates lead to lower crime, less violence, and increased prosperity and life expectancy. That's a big part of the reason that life is better in Sweden and Japan than in Colombia and Pakistan.

The fact that we need to reproduce does not lead to a logical conclusion that all of need to reproduce as much as possible, any more than the fact that we need to eat means that we all need to eat as much as possible.

Hard for madhatter to get his Mormon blinders off.
Further evidence that LDS is a deeply troubling, retrogressive and harmful theology.


Are you conceding this country was founded on religious morals and freedoms?
Of course not; quite the opposite.
If so, Why would you even try to deliberately mis-interpret the constitution of the United States or try to change it's foundation?
I think you should memo in the Supreme Court, who have repeatedly, over decades, ruled that you're wrong.
Is it because you find religion to be obsolete? IF so, that is for another debate.
A girl can dream.
There are none that are efficient enough to promote cultural sustainability except the traditional family.
What form of traditional family are you referring to? Because there are many of them all over the world.

But they don't equally contribute to society. Without extra resources (because of their chosen behavior) they cannot contribute in the way that normal heterosexual couple can.
Well, sperm is hardly a scarce resource.

Everyone contributes differently, and all contributions are valuable to society. Or, as my mother used to say, it takes all kinds to make a world. We don't all have to be like you to make it work. In fact, it probably works better with fewer like you.

I am not telling them who they can or cannot love. I am merely stating, as i have always stated. that It is ridiculous to put in place provisions and special privileges based on behavioral attributes that are contrary to the reason married couples have special benefits.
And you have always been wrong, for two reasons. First, they're not special privileges, they're fundamental rights. Second, "the ability and willingness to procreate with each other as biological parents" is not the reason married couples have special benefits. If it were, we would exclude non-fertile, adoptive and childless heterosexual couples.


no sir, your argument was one dimensional. I provided an appropriate response. I already know that there are a lot of factors in how many resources it takes for a single human being to survive. However, families that live together have a much more efficient ratio of resources to living. People today are less likely to continue to live with parents until starting a family of their own because Americans (especially) have a sense of entitlement to space. we have caused ourselves to be inefficient at living in the world because we have moved so far away from the traditional family model since becoming an industrial society.
Yes, families are good, including gay families. No, the patriarchal model is not the best or only model by a long shot. But feel free to supply some data to the contrary.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
This gives me an idea... sime homosexuals obviously cannot have children on their own (all those fundamentalists cannot possibly be wrong :rolleyes:)... maybe we need more gays around to take care of all the kids all us breeding hetrosexuals leave behind!

No joke, Kerr. Many gay people are taking care of children that careless, irresponsible heterosexuals failed to, including me and most of my friends.

I invite any ant-gay proponent to visit their state's "waiting children" website, if you can stand the pain. All those kids begging for a forever family of their own? Guess who bred them: heterosexuals.

I wouldn't call it a positive contribution to society, would you?
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
No joke, Kerr. Many gay people are taking care of children that careless, irresponsible heterosexuals failed to, including me and most of my friends.
And there we have it, a very important contribution to society and something that can even be called an evolutionary advantage (basically natures response to irresponsible parents). It is so annoying when people can only see one side of the coin...
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
Everyone contributes differently, and all contributions are valuable to society. Or, as my mother used to say, it takes all kinds to make a world. We don't all have to be like you to make it work. In fact, it probably works better with fewer like you.
Exactly :).
 

ThereIsNoSpoon

Active Member
Thank you. I'm glad that you at least admit that.
Why shouldnt I?
I do not think that we had any quarrel or did we?
We disagree perhaps but i did not see any idiotic remarks on your side. Instead i think it was a rather liberal fair balanced approach within the topic of disagreement. That should be mentioned in this board as it is not the rule but rather the exception.
 

Perfect Circle

Just Browsing
Baloney. Society prospers best when some reproduce and some do not. Lower birth rates lead to lower crime, less violence, and increased prosperity and life expectancy. That's a big part of the reason that life is better in Sweden and Japan than in Colombia and Pakistan.

The fact that we need to reproduce does not lead to a logical conclusion that all of need to reproduce as much as possible, any more than the fact that we need to eat means that we all need to eat as much as possible.

Hard for madhatter to get his Mormon blinders off.
Further evidence that LDS is a deeply troubling, retrogressive and harmful theology.


Of course not; quite the opposite. I think you should memo in the Supreme Court, who have repeatedly, over decades, ruled that you're wrong. A girl can dream.
What form of traditional family are you referring to? Because there are many of them all over the world.

Well, sperm is hardly a scarce resource.

Everyone contributes differently, and all contributions are valuable to society. Or, as my mother used to say, it takes all kinds to make a world. We don't all have to be like you to make it work. In fact, it probably works better with fewer like you.

And you have always been wrong, for two reasons. First, they're not special privileges, they're fundamental rights. Second, "the ability and willingness to procreate with each other as biological parents" is not the reason married couples have special benefits. If it were, we would exclude non-fertile, adoptive and childless heterosexual couples.


Yes, families are good, including gay families. No, the patriarchal model is not the best or only model by a long shot. But feel free to supply some data to the contrary.

As far as I'm concerned, that wraps it up... Madhatter's argument has been thoroughly debunked, and Auto's post ties the counter argument together nicely.

Marriage is a RIGHT according to the supreme court
Homosexual couples "contribute to society" by adoption
They can sexually reproduce via artificial insimination
They are not demanding any "special treatment"

There is absolutely no reason to deny them marriage beyond religious, or traditional convictions.
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
I know it's kinda off topic but I contemplated it last night and came to the following conclusion:
I believe the real reason law makers are dragging their feet on this subject is because it's like dangling a carrot in front of the horse. If you give the horse a carrot he is either:

A) going to stop following you, or
B) want more carrots.

I think it's the same for most political stances.
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
As far as I'm concerned, that wraps it up... Madhatter's argument has been thoroughly debunked, and Auto's post ties the counter argument together nicely.
No it has not, You have failed to provide evidence that homosexuality is "normal." If it were "Normal" the human race would have died out long ago.

Marriage is a RIGHT according to the supreme court
Homosexual couples "contribute to society" by adoption
They can sexually reproduce via artificial insimination
They are not demanding any "special treatment"

There is absolutely no reason to deny them marriage beyond religious, or traditional convictions.
Actually, Marriage is not a right. and that is what the current debate is about at a legal level. Most people for traditional marriage make arguments based on religious convictions. My arguments are based genetics and social/economic good for the world.
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
Actually, Marriage is not a right. and that is what the current debate is about at a legal level. Most people for traditional marriage make arguments based on religious convictions. My arguments are based genetics and social/economic good for the world.
That depends on your view on marriage. For most of the people I know it is a matter of love, and if it is a matter of love it is insane to give some people the right to and others not to, since you should be able to marry who you love in that view.
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
Actually, Marriage is not a right. and that is what the current debate is about at a legal level. Most people for traditional marriage make arguments based on religious convictions. My arguments are based genetics and social/economic good for the world.
My arguments are based on the suffering such a static model causes. There are better ways.
 
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