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Shaivism - Discussion Thread

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Chakra, maybe you inspired this. thanks.

Lately I've been really wondering more about the 4 yogas concept, as summarised here: http://www.swamij.com/four-paths-of-yoga.htm
Sivananda, although by his name sounds like he was a Saivite, actually wasn't. He was a Smarta, Advaita Vedantin. Many people mistakenly think He was a great Saivite. Great Guru, yes, and his work is remarkable, but not a Saivite in the traditional sense.

That would explain a lot; I always had trouble connecting with a lot of things he had to say and it would explain some of the conversations I've had with at least one student of his teachings. Sivananda also had a certain appreciation/inclusion of Jesus Christ at times which I found rather odd. I'm not too keen on what Smarta thinks about the Gunas but I remember that being a big point I disagreed on and I saw his view as differing form what I understand of Samkya which is much closer to what I believe on the topic of the gunas.I really identify with Rajo Guna and see it as both potentially good or bad, which is congruent with Samkya but not with what Sivananda believed. I would probably agree that Tamas is always bad but I really don't know that for certain, but it would seem so from what I know and have experienced. Anyways the Gunas are pretty important to what I personally believe.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Continuing .. I think the 'garbhagruha' style is old and it needs a revision in modern times when the numbers visiting the temples have increased hundred fold because of increase in population and ease of transportation. We numbered 390 million in 1947 and now number 1289 million. There should be a larger access for 'darshana'. Because of the constricted design, overcorwding is a major problem at all temples. IMHO, Sthapatya Shastra needs a re-writing.

Yes, that is one way to look at it, and by far the most common way in North Indian style temples. The moolasthanam style comes right out of the Agamas, so you're saying the Agamas need 'updating'? South Indian style temples all should switch to the North Indian style?

The traditional style works much the same way as a magnifying glass. Light from a large area is concentrated in a single location such that a fire can be started. Try starting a fire by holding a piece of paper up to the sun without a magnifying glass. Overcrowding is there because the temples, because of their design, have such a tremendous shakti to them, everyone wants to go.

Surely there is room for both.
 

Bhadr

Active Member
Nataraja murthi (sakala) represents the five activities performed by Parashiva (nishkala).
Which parts of Svami's murthi (Siva Peruman thirumeni) correspond to the five activities (pancha kritya) and more importantly how is it linked to the five elements (and the five syllables)?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The drum is emanation.
Planted foot is concealing grace.
Left front hand revealing grace.
Right front, sustaining, preservation.
Flame in back left hand .. dissolution.
 

Bhadr

Active Member
You tell us.
Tell what?I asked a question!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaivism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nataraja
Parashiva?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parashiva
Five elements?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancha_Bhoota
Pancha krityas?
http://www.kamakoti.org/kamakoti/details/shivapuranam3.html? PHPSESSID=20a737073b361b33 0c12a78651b121d7
http://www.kheper.net/topics/Trika/Pancakrtya.html
Sakala,Nishakala?
Agamic terms - I'll explain them some other time.

In some sampradayas,Nataraja murthi is the focus of sadhana. Sri Nataraja's manifest form embodies the above Saiva concepts,I asked a question to know more about that.
 
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Bhadr

Active Member
The drum is emanation.
Planted foot is concealing grace.
Left front hand revealing grace.
Right front, sustaining, preservation.
Flame in back left hand .. dissolution.

Thanks.
A small doubt,which signifies anugraha,the left (front) hand which points towards the foot or the raised foot (kunchita padam)?

I remember reading somewhere about the connection between the five krityas and five elements(and the five syllables),not able to find it now.Is there is a link or am I mixing up different concepts?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Thanks.
A small doubt,which signifies anugraha,the left (front) hand which points towards the foot or the raised foot (kunchita padam)?

I remember reading somewhere about the connection between the five krityas and five elements(and the five syllables),not able to find it now.Is there is a link or am I mixing up different concepts?

I don't know about the elements with Nataraja, but there are links between the syllables and Nataraja, as well as the syllables and the elements. This goes into greater detail:

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/book/five-powers-of-siva_ei/2
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
In some sampradayas,Nataraja murthi is the focus of sadhana. Sri Nataraja's manifest form embodies the above Saiva concepts,I asked a question to know more about that.

Mine. Nataraja is the centerpiece of all home shrines in this sampradaya, as well as the centerpiece in the main temple at our spiritual center. But you most likely already knew that.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
For me, Shiva is only in the form of the linga at our Rameshwar Nath temple (image included elsewhere).
 

Bhadr

Active Member
Mine. Nataraja is the centerpiece of all home shrines in this sampradaya, as well as the centerpiece in the main temple at our spiritual center. But you most likely already knew that.
Yes,I know.

The Chidambaram Deekshiitar's worship Lord Shiva in Nataraja form.
Coronation of Chola kings used to take place in Chidambaram,some were so attached to Lord Nataraja that they shifted the empire's capital to Chidambaram and conducted administration from there.

For me, Shiva is only in the form of the linga at our Rameshwar Nath temple (image included elsewhere).
In most temples Lord Shiva is in the form of Linga Bhagavan.
I my knowledge there are only 2 shrines where Lord Shiva is in iconic form.
1.The famous shrine of Chidambaram where the Lord dances joyous - Sri Ananda Nataraja Swamy
2.Surutapalli where the Lord is in shayana asana,reclining with His head on the lap of Goddess Sri Sarvamangalambika - Sri Palli Kondeshwara

Pics of Sri Palli Konda Peruman
Surutapalli.jpg
Surutapalli-Pallikondeswara-Swamy-Abhishekam.jpg
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Yesterday was the first Monday of Śrāvaṇa. Very large crowd. There was a Sri Shiva abhishekam (every Monday), a Sri Subramaniya/Devasena/Valli, and Sudarshana abhishekam all going on at the same time. No pictures yet. I cannot believe how gargantunormous the lingam is. I've never seen it completely "undressed" before. Y'all know I can be melodramatic, but I swear it is the size of a small pony.

People were arguing over chairs. One elderly lady was adamant and absolutely refused to move... when I offered that she sit in my spot which had a better view. People were like: "Please take this seat... no you sit... no, no, I insist... I'm fine, really... stay where you are, you're fine... thank you so much... " Remember the cartoon gophers Mac and Tosh?

735f10235c64a0a0c4baf3df0c5b68bd.jpg


The politeness was nauseating :p (remember, all these years later I'm still de-toxing from Catholics trying to kill each other getting out of the church parking lot :eek:). People told me to move to their spots where I could see better. The small group in "our corner" laughed when I said "no, it's OK... God knows I'm here". I spoke with a nice lady and exchanged our shoulder, lumbar and cervical spine surgery stories. You always meet someone you have something in common with... at temple of all places. :D The mood and energy was something I've not experienced before.

I missed getting in line for blessing at the Sri Venkateshwara sanctum (I need all the help I can get), so I went to the back. The young priest, Raghava is his name, whispered to me "you come to front", went to wave the light to the Lord and offer me the light, water and Lord's feet. When we first met Raghava-ji seemed to be fascinated by the fact that I'm Italian-American and became Hindu. I want to tell him that we should chat more about it when he's not serving in temple.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The largest Shivalingam (108 feet): The Lord Kotilingeshwara Temple is situated in Kammasandra Village in Kolar district, Karnataka State, India.
Koti-lingesshwara: The master of the place where there are 10 million lingams.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
People were arguing over chairs.

The young priest, Raghava is his name,

The temple here has no chairs. There might be arguments over floor (stone tiles) locations some days. We do have in-floor heating, and on cold January days there are spots that are a lot warmer. I know where the best ones are.

Our assistant priest is Raghavan Iyer.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The largest Shivalingam (108 feet): The Lord Kotilingeshwara Temple is situated in Kammasandra Village in Kolar district, Karnataka State, India.
Koti-lingesshwara: The master of the place where there are 10 million lingams.

Not carved from a single stone though. I believe that is still the one at Thanjavur. Not sure though.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Not carved from a single stone though. I believe that is still the one at Thanjavur. Not sure though.
Quite possible. "The presiding deity of lingam is 3.7m tall." (Wikipedia)

images

There might be arguments over floor (stone tiles) locations some days. We do have in-floor heating, and on cold January days there are spots that are a lot warmer. I know where the best ones are.
Does not the temple have floor covering? Carpets?
 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
The temple here has no chairs. There might be arguments over floor (stone tiles) locations some days. We do have in-floor heating, and on cold January days there are spots that are a lot warmer. I know where the best ones are.

Our assistant priest is Raghavan Iyer.

I'm surprised there are no folding chairs for the elderly. I would rather stand anyway. Even on a chair my leg and foot still go numb. I have to get up and move around. It will take a long time for the nerves to fully heal.

But anyway, I don't know if our floor is heated, I haven't been there in the winter yet. They might be heated, being granite tiles.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I just flop in a temple, not particularly in 'padmasana' - as is convenient - like a child sitting before parents. All respect, no formality.
 
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