Shari'ah and Afghanistan

[viole]

It just seems to be all or nothing with some people.

I feel addressed. Then yes, it is all or nothing.

To make an example, you claimed Christianity entails that there is no difference between men and women. Because of some deeply sounding unity in Christ.

Let me ask you this: do those same Christians believe you can literally turn a wafer into the body of Christ if you do not have a penis?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Debater Slayer]

All history is interpretation. Each history book even by a scholar is interpretation.

All I'm trying to say is that there is nuance here that doesn't seem to be taken into account by those who just wish the whole thing never happened, and anything less than everyone praising the man and immediately changing their opinions and the RCC being welcoming (and his book was dedicated to a recieved by a Bishop, lest we forget) won't be satisfactory.

It just seems to be all or nothing with some people.

Of course, such a black-and-white outlook has a multitude of problems, among which is the demonstrably incorrect conclusion that Christianity has never inspired positive social, artistic, or scientific progress. At the same time, I don't think it's prudent at all to downplay the deep extent to which the Church, at multiple points in its history, exercised oppression, violence, and corruption against those who opposed it or didn't sufficiently align with its beliefs.

I don't view these issues through the lens of Christianity versus secularism; I view them through the lens of endorsing humanist values regardless of where they originate. If they happen to originate within Christendom or be endorsed by the Church, that should be celebrated too.

 

[Shakeel]

Can you give some examples of ways the Taliban is implementing Sharia improperly? This isn't me doubting you, I'm ignorant of Sharia.

They're murdering Muslims, prevent women from going out without a man, prevent them from working outside (female doctors, teachers and nurses, for example, are simply a necessity), punish without evidence and with punishments not found in Sharia.

 

[Shakeel]

The main reason Christianity caught on is because most people's lives were miserable under Roman law

But you kept to one wife anyway. Seems you like something about the Romans.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

To make an example, you claimed Christianity entails that there is no difference between men and women.

That's not what that verse says. It's saying we're all spiritually equal before God. Not that we're the same. So a male is not privileged before God ok account of them being male - same for women, Jews, Gentiles, etc. We're all made in the image of God but have different roles (or vocations).

 

[Rival]

But you kept to one wife anyway. Seems you like something about the Romans.

I'm not really bothered about that so much. If a society wants to accept polygyny they can do it without much care from me. I don't see it as an inherently harmful practice, just not an ideal.

 

[viole]

That's not what that verse says. It's saying we're all spiritually equal before God. Not that we're the same. So a male is not privileged before God ok account of them being male - same for women, Jews, Gentiles, etc. We're all made in the image of God but have different roles (or vocations).

We are not talking here of weight lifting.

Now, suppose I want to literally turn a wafer into the body of Christ, just by whispering some latin words, do you think I can do that? If not, why not?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Shakeel]

I'm not really bothered about that so much. If a society wants to accept polygyny they can do it without much care from me. I don't see it as an inherently harmful practice, just not an ideal.

Okay, so you disagree with God. You should object to people making unlawful what your God made lawful. Where are your morals? Your faith?

 

[Rival]

We are not talking here of weight lifting.

Now, suppose I want to literally turn a wafer into the body of Christ, do you think I can do that? If not, why not?

Ciao

- viole

Because you're not a man.

Because different sexes have different roles.

That's the case in 100% of cultures.

 

[Kooky]

Oh yes, those cultures that,

- Gave the father total control over his household to the point of killing them.
- Treated women like chattel and kept them inside (Greece).
- Gouged out slaves' eyes and hit them for no reason, just to remind them they were slaves.
- Practiced pederasty.
- Considered everyone non-Greek or Roman barbarians.
- Put non-believers to death (yeah, they did that too).

It would be a horrible society no-one wants to live in. The main reason Christianity caught on is because most people's lives were miserable under Roman law and Christianity called them all equal. Mediterranean societies nor any society had any notion of 'human rights'. Greece and Rome were horrible places to live unless you were a rich man.

And yet, it took the Enlightenment, and the advent of secularism, for human rights to be invented in the West.
(And arguably they were not even intended to apply to all human beings initially - that's just something crafty men and women took from it when they turned the actual text back on itself, and against the oligarchy of wealthy White men.)

And for the record, most of history was a horrible place to live unless you were a rich man, most of Christian Europe included.

(And for some reason I get the creeping feeling that I'm committing some sort of language crime by starting every sentence of this post with "and")

Okay, so you disagree with God. You should object to people making unlawful what your God made lawful. Where are your morals? Your faith?

No God made the laws I live under. They are creations of men and women, and can be changed by men and women again. I would further argue that only men and women should make laws for themselves, as gods tend to have a very poor track record in understanding the needs and wants of us mortals.

 

[Rival]

Okay, so you disagree with God. You should object to people making unlawful what your God made lawful. Where are your morals? Your faith?

I'm not sure what you mean.

I accept polygyny, my God accepts polygyny. There's no contradiction here.

 

[Shakeel]

Because you're not a man.

Because different sexes have different roles.

But there can be no male and female.

Make up your mind.

 

[viole]

Because you're not a man.

Because different sexes have different roles.

That's the case in 100% of cultures.

100% of cultures? So, God commands are a cultural thing?

Again, is turning wafers into Gods is a role that only belong to men?

Why?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Rival]

But there can be no male and female.

Make up your mind.

I'm not a Christian, dude.

 

[Shakeel]

I'm not sure what you mean.

I accept polygyny, my God accepts polygyny. There's no contradiction here.

I'm talking about your indifference and your saying it isn't ideal.

 

[Rival]

So, turning wafers into Gods is a role that only belong to men?

Yes.

Why?

No idea. Ask a Catholic.

 

[Shakeel]

I'm not a Christian, dude.

Then what are you?

 

[Rival]

I'm talking about your indifference and your saying it isn't ideal.

Oh.

I can't control people around me and I live in a degenerate western country, so it's kind of a losing battle. I've just come to the conclusion that if I do what God wants, then that's what I'm going to do.

 

[Rival]

Then what are you?

I'm a Kemetic (Ancient Egyptian religion) monotheistic believer.

 

[Shakeel]

Oh.

I can't control people around me and I live in a degenerate western country, so it's kind of a losing battle. I've just come to the conclusion that if I do what God wants, then that's what I'm going to do.

That hardly answers my post.