Shoe is on the other foot: Prove there is not God.

[tumbleweed41]

I was just getting to the heart of the matter. I figure this was all coming back on Gods existence.

But i did answer your challenge actually. If folklore can be considered possibly true then you got a whole new can of worms to consider more than just God.

*thinking to myself* gee i wonder whats coming next

That the validity of both our claims are equal?

 

[AK4]

That the validity of both our claims are equal?

Not at all. I will show how they arent equal after you tell me how they can be equal.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Not at all. I will show how they arent equal after you tell me how they can be equal.

The original question was....
Prove God does not exist.
To show an equal comparison I ask...
Prove Leprechauns do not exist.

Well?

 

[McBell]

Only thing is, you guys consider that bible doesnt count as evidence. 66 books by however many different authors somehow harmonizing into one complete book doesnt count.

Couple things...
One, your bible is plum full of contradictions. so your claim of "harmonizing into one complete book" is at best wishful thinking and at worst a bold faced lie.

two, you want us to believe that Bible simply because the Bible says that the Bible is true? So why is it that you do not believe the in the Koran like you do the Bible?

If there were 66 books written of ceasar by however many different authors and somehow harmonizing that it all can come together to be one book, yall wouldnt discredit it and say it wasnt empirical evidence.

If all you had was that book, your damn right.
But then, there is much more evidence for ceasar than there is for Jesus or your God.

Talk about hypocrisy

Seems to me that it is your deity that dislikes hypocrisy.
Thus it would mean that YOU are the one who is not to be a hypocrite.
It is not my fault that you follow a deity that frowns on hypocrisy.

 

[AK4]

The original question was....
Prove God does not exist.
To show an equal comparison I ask...
Prove Leprechauns do not exist.

Well?

I could have sworn i did this. Its folklore. Like i said if you want to consider folklore a possibility for something existing then you open up a can worms about everything. So do i need to go into what folklore is? Okay

folk⋅lore   /ˈfoʊkˌlɔr, -ˌloʊr/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fohk-lawr, -lohr] Show IPA
–noun 1.the traditional beliefs, legends, customs, etc., of a people; lore of a people.2.the study of such lore.3.a body of widely held but false or unsubstantiated beliefs.



So back to what i said before---*thinking to myself* gee i wonder whats coming next

 

[McBell]

I could have sworn i did this. Its folklore. Like i said if you want to consider folklore a possibility for something existing then you open up a can worms about everything. So do i need to go into what folklore is? Okay

folk⋅lore   /ˈfoʊkˌlɔr, -ˌloʊr/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fohk-lawr, -lohr] Show IPA
–noun 1.the traditional beliefs, legends, customs, etc., of a people; lore of a people.2.the study of such lore.3.a body of widely held but false or unsubstantiated beliefs.



So back to what i said before---*thinking to myself* gee i wonder whats coming next

AH.
So god is folklore?

 

[tumbleweed41]

I could have sworn i did this. Its folklore. Like i said if you want to consider folklore a possibility for something existing then you open up a can worms about everything. So do i need to go into what folklore is? Okay

folk⋅lore   /ˈfoʊkˌlɔr, -ˌloʊr/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fohk-lawr, -lohr] Show IPA
–noun 1.the traditional beliefs, legends, customs, etc., of a people; lore of a people.2.the study of such lore.3.a body of widely held but false or unsubstantiated beliefs.
So back to what i said before---*thinking to myself* gee i wonder whats coming next

The Bible itself is a collection of folklore. Traditional beliefs, legends, customs, etc., of the Hebrew people. It is the very definition of a body of widely held but false and unsubstantiated beliefs.

So, holding my claim and the OP's equal, if you are to dismiss my claim as invalid based on the definition of folklore, then the Bible, and all it's claims are equally invalid.

If not....
Prove that Leprechauns do not exist.

 

[AK4]

Couple things...
One, your bible is plum full of contradictions. so your claim of "harmonizing into one complete book" is at best wishful thinking and at worst a bold faced lie.

No its not. Only when one can only see literal and is duped by what the so called experts say a verse means, then you have contradictions. Again i refer you to what we were talking about before of only a few will know what the scriptures teach. From Jesus--


Mt 13:11 -He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you [the true disciples] to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them [the "them" here was those who did listen to Jesus and His teachings and did believe somewhat that He was at least a prophet] it is not given.
So what does that say about those who didnt even believe at all? It really is not given unto them no ANY mysteries of the kingdom of heaven

two, you want us to believe that Bible simply because the Bible says that the Bible is true? So why is it that you do not believe the in the Koran like you do the Bible?

Ive never said that. But that is part of it. I also stress that the scriptures must mesh with science also. i.e. you cant have six literal days of creation and the earth being millions of years old. We know the science is true, so either the bible is false or we have bad translation and understanding. Since the word for day also means a time, season, year, years, chronicle, etc---it fits or meshes with science

If all you had was that book, your damn right.
But then, there is much more evidence for ceasar than there is for Jesus or your God.

Really? you might wanna reconsider that since Jesus is the God of the OT.

Seems to me that it is your deity that dislikes hypocrisy.
Thus it would mean that YOU are the one who is not to be a hypocrite.
It is not my fault that you follow a deity that frowns on hypocrisy.

Wow!!!:thud: Did you actually mean this? Nah i refuse to believe that you meant what you said here because do you actually see what that says about you?

 

[AK4]

The Bible itself is a collection of folklore. Traditional beliefs, legends, customs, etc., of the Hebrew people. It is the very definition of a body of widely held but false and unsubstantiated beliefs.

So, holding my claim and the OP's equal, if you are to dismiss my claim as invalid based on the definition of folklore, then the Bible, and all it's claims are equally invalid.

If not....
Prove that Leprechauns do not exist.

Did you ignore what i put in red and underlined? That is what seperates God from folklore and that is why they are not equally valid.

 

[AK4]

AH.
So god is folklore?

this was what i was thinking you guys would say

 

[tumbleweed41]

Did you ignore what i put in red and underlined? That is what seperates God from folklore and that is why they are not equally valid.

You mean this?
a body of widely held but false or unsubstantiated beliefs


I did address that here...

The Bible itself is a collection of folklore. Traditional beliefs, legends, customs, etc., of the Hebrew people. It is the very definition of a body of widely held but false and unsubstantiated beliefs.

Again, if you want to use the definition of folklore as a tool to dismiss the existence of Leprechauns, then to be fair and equal, the same definition can, and does, apply to the Bible and it's concept of God.

If not, prove that Leprechauns do not exist.

 

[AK4]

You mean this?
a body of widely held but false or unsubstantiated beliefs


I did address that here...



Again, if you want to use the definition of folklore as a tool to dismiss the existence of Leprechauns, then to be fair and equal, the same definition can, and does, apply to the Bible and it's concept of God.

If not, prove that Leprechauns do not exist.

The key words are false and unsubstantiated. By your own words earlier in this thread you can say for certain that God is false or unsubstantiate. That is why this differs from the folklore of leprechauns and the like. There are stuff to substantiate whats in the bible and unless ive been sleep for a long while there is nothing to substantiate leprechauns.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ive never said that. But that is part of it. I also stress that the scriptures must mesh with science also. i.e. you cant have six literal days of creation and the earth being millions of years old. We know the science is true, so either the bible is false or we have bad translation and understanding. Since the word for day also means a time, season, year, years, chronicle, etc---it fits or meshes with science

No, it doesn't. What you describe here is day-age creationism. It still doesn't mesh with science because the order of events in Genesis doesn't match the order that they actually happened.

No matter how long your "day" is, the Genesis account still has fruit-bearing trees arising before animals, birds arising before land animals, and a bunch of other things that go against what the scientific evidence tells us actually happened.

 

[tumbleweed41]

The key words are false and unsubstantiated. By your own words earlier in this thread you can say for certain that God is false or unsubstantiate. That is why this differs from the folklore of leprechauns and the like. There are stuff to substantiate whats in the bible and unless ive been sleep for a long while there is nothing to substantiate leprechauns.

Nor is there anything to substantiate the Bible.

Now, prove leprechauns do not exist.

 

[AK4]

No, it doesn't. What you describe here is day-age creationism. It still doesn't mesh with science because the order of events in Genesis doesn't match the order that they actually happened.

No matter how long your "day" is, the Genesis account still has fruit-bearing trees arising before animals, birds arising before land animals, and a bunch of other things that go against what the scientific evidence tells us actually happened.

Ahh verse 20 compared to 25. Lets see what it says in 20

1:20 -Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds [8318] fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens."




[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Strong's Number: 8318[/FONT]encodedOriginalWord[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Original Word[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Word Origin[/FONT] שרץ [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]from (08317)[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Transliterated Word[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Phonetic Spelling[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]sherets[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]sheh'-rets[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Parts of Speech[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]TWOT[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Noun Masculine[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]2467a[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Definition[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]

1. teeming or swarming things, creepers, swarmers
   1. of insects, animals, small reptiles, quadrupeds

[/FONT]



verse 21

1:21 - God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Strong's Number: 8577[/FONT]encodedOriginalWord[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Original Word[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Word Origin[/FONT] תנין [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]intensive from the same as (08565)[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Transliterated Word[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Phonetic Spelling[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]tanniyn[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]tan-neen'[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Parts of Speech[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]TWOT[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Noun Masculine[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]2528b[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Definition[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]

1. dragon, serpent, sea monster
   1. dragon or dinosaur
   2. sea or river monster
   3. serpent, venomous snake

Oh now we got dinosaurs before verse 25. Well ill stop there. I believe you get the picture[/FONT]

 

[AK4]

Nor is there anything to substantiate the Bible.

Now, prove leprechauns do not exist.

Really? No Archeological findings, no temple destruction in 70 AD, no great egyptian, babylonian, assyrian empire and on and on.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ahh verse 20 compared to 25.

Not just that. Here's the order in Genesis 1, as I read it:

- plants, including fruit-bearing trees
- the Sun and the Moon
- ocean life, including "great creatures of the sea", and birds
- land animals, including livestock
- humans

Here's the actual order:

- the Sun
- the Moon
- rudimentary ocean life
- fish and rudimentary plants
- rudimentary land animals
- fruit-bearing trees
- humans
- modern livestock

These two orders are not the same.

Lets see what it says in 20

1:20 -Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds [8318] fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens."




[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Strong's Number: 8318[/FONT]encodedOriginalWord[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Original Word[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Word Origin[/FONT] שרץ [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]from (08317)[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Transliterated Word[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Phonetic Spelling[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]sherets[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]sheh'-rets[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Parts of Speech[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]TWOT[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Noun Masculine[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]2467a[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Definition[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]

1. teeming or swarming things, creepers, swarmers
   1. of insects, animals, small reptiles, quadrupeds

[/FONT]



verse 21

1:21 - God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.



[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Strong's Number: 8577[/FONT]encodedOriginalWord[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Original Word[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Word Origin[/FONT] תנין [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]intensive from the same as (08565)[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Transliterated Word[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Phonetic Spelling[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]tanniyn[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]tan-neen'[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Parts of Speech[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]TWOT[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Noun Masculine[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]2528b[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Definition[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]

1. dragon, serpent, sea monster
   1. dragon or dinosaur
   2. sea or river monster
   3. serpent, venomous snake

[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Oh now we got dinosaurs before verse 25. Well ill stop there. I believe you get the picture[/FONT]

Verse 21 specifies sea monsters. Even if you argue that this really means "sea dinosaurs", you still don't get land-dwelling monsters before verse 25, and if you're going to argue that things like plesiosaurs arose before land-dwelling dinosaurs, then you'll be adding another event that's contradicted by the fossil record and science.

 

[Mr Cheese]

148 pages later.

Has anyone actually defined what God is, so that they can prove God exists yet?

Or did we accept that this thread is actually about Jehova?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Really? No Archeological findings, no temple destruction in 70 AD, no great egyptian, babylonian, assyrian empire and on and on.

no great flood?
no women turnign into pillars of salt?
no men talking to burning bushes?
no fishes multiplyign themselves in a basket?

:sarcastic

the bible is the truth I tell you!
dagnammit

 

[AK4]

Not just that. Here's the order in Genesis 1, as I read it:

- plants, including fruit-bearing trees
- the Sun and the Moon
- ocean life, including "great creatures of the sea", and birds
- land animals, including livestock
- humans

Actual order from Gen 1:1

- heavens
- earth, [maybe a start of some form of an atmosphere]
- the seas
- then a pangea continent
- vegetation
- 1 or 2 things---more stars and galaxies forming in space or this could actually be the start of our solar system [consider that the very beginnings of an earth could of been from some of the rocky debris from other stars that already exploded and had some of the elements of what we now have in our earth. Just as science says there could be suns just "moving" around in space so could our earth also. This could also expand the atmosphere as more and more our solar system developed]
- ocean life including bacteria and such that could make it to the dry land. Also some ocean life such as serpents who could come onto the dry land
- now more defined or exclusively land animals
- man

Now doesnt this match this

Here's the actual order:

- the Sun
- the Moon
- rudimentary ocean life
- fish and rudimentary plants
- rudimentary land animals
- fruit-bearing trees
- humans
- modern livestock

Verse 21 specifies sea monsters. Even if you argue that this really means "sea dinosaurs", you still don't get land-dwelling monsters before verse 25, and if you're going to argue that things like plesiosaurs arose before land-dwelling dinosaurs, then you'll be adding another event that's contradicted by the fossil record and science

The word for "sea" is the same as the one for "monsters". So what says it is a actual sea creature. Most serpents live on dry land. Dragon well who knows what that may mean [i have a clue but thats something else]