Shoe is on the other foot: Prove there is not God.

[AK4]

Perhaps you should read over the entire story again and see how the myth entails the entire World.
Either way, it is an unsubstantiated belief.

I know the story and in no way does it come close to entailing the whole world. For instance lets just jump to the end


Genesis 10:1-5 - 1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born (8735) after the flood. 2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. 4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. 5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in (8738) their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Now some "global" flood kills everyone in the whole world except those in the boat and somehow they are dividing the isles of the gentiles. Also these seven people in the ark, did they all speak after different unique tongues? After their families? Arent they the sons of just one family, Noah? And somehow they had their own nations

I am well aware of Concordances and Lexicons. I am also aware of Christian apologetics and reliance on unsubstantiated belief.

If so then you should know not to fully rely on one translation

 

[McBell]

As for literature evidence, try this one and this is just the NT

*yawn*
Do you really think your appeal to numbers helps your case?
Hint: it doesn't.

I tell ya, the hypocrosy and biasedness of today. Now what was that you were saying about my God and hypocrosy and what that says about you?

I asked what it was that you think it says about me.

You seem to be under some delusion that the rules and regulations of your subscribed to deity also apply to me.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Ha. I like how you slipped in leprechauns. Granted i personally could answer them all but im sure the info is out there on everyone of those. Let me hit a few

Creation.---Science substantiates

Incorrect. Their is no scientific evidence of creation of the universe and life by a deity of any sort.
Unsubstantiated

Noah's Ark.---Something mentioned of it in secular writings, well at least of the flood, Josephus is one

Josephus 37ce to 100ce, not an accurate source for an event happening thousands of years before he was born.
Unsubstantiated

Israelite slavery in Egypt.---i thought they found something on this? I will have to re-research this

No, they have not.
Unsubstantiated

Talking donkeys.---aint it amasing how many different animals we have taught forms of speech to. So this is not completely ruled out

Until you can provide evidence of a talking donkey it is....
Unsubstantiated

Raising of the dead.---Doctors this day and age raise many people "from the dead".

Do you propose Jesus used CPR or Ventricular Fibrillation? Your claim is...
Unsubstantiated

Trial of Jesus.---some jewish materials substantiate this [and they didnt like Him]

Briefly mentioned in a disputed text attributed to Josephus.
Unsubstantiated

Crucifixion of Jesus.---same as above and then some

Briefly mentioned in a disputed text attributed to Josephus.
Unsubstantiated

Resurrection of Jesus.---same as above and then some

Even Josephus didn't touch that claim.
Unsubstantiated

 

[AK4]

Science contradicts.

no It doesnt, you just refuse to believe the evidence because of your “hate” for God.

Exactly where does Josephus mention the flood?

This plus other secular writings for ya here

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:2ao2Iq4LikMJ:ldolphin.org/floodleg.html+josephus+and+the+flood&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Yes, they found something on this: the Israelite civilization that arose in Canaan developed from the people who lived there all along, and the archaeological signs that we'd expect if a large group of people displaced the indigenous people just aren't there.

I remembered hearing something about this but I never paid it too much attention

No, doctors have gotten better and better at recognizing that people who may appear dead may not be actually dead.

So the times when they say someone was clinically dead don’t count now?

 

[McBell]

You keep trying yet you don’t know the true scriptures.

So basically you are resting your whole argument on your CLAIM: ' you don’t know the true scriptures"?

And we are supposed to take it seriously?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Now the word for earth is “erets”---land, earth etc etc. Now replace earth in both of those places with land and see what you get.

Interesting. But you do realize that in the hebrew language there are multiple words for land. Maybe earth just simply means.....Earth, you know, like....Planet Earth.

You keep trying yet you don’t know the true scriptures. Before claiming something please make sure what you are arguing is correct. I understand most don’t know of concordances and lexicons and such so im not being harsh on you.

There are multiple lexicons. Some with obvious biases in their rendering of words. Strong's and Thayer and a few others are good but they do differ in some of their renderings. It's good to use multiples and cross reference. Keep in mind a Lexicon can only take you but so far so it's good to have a dictionary that focuses on the original word...to English.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Interesting. But you do realize that in the hebrew language there are multiple words for land. Maybe earth just simply means.....Earth, you know, like....Planet Earth.

shhhh dont tell the Jews and Muslims that the holy land may not be some strip of sand in the middle east!

you'll have a mess on your hands...
people killign each other..and bombing and,...

uh wait??? huh

nevermind

 

[McBell]

Creation.---Science substantiates

Just making the claim does not make said claim true.
Until you can show how science substantiates the creation folklore this is merely an unsubstantiated claim about an unsubstantiated claim.

Noah's Ark.---Something mentioned of it in secular writings, well at least of the flood, Josephus is one

Hate to burst your bubble and I understand that your choir swears by him, but Josephus is not a reliable source.
Especially given the proven fraud involved with some of his work.

Israelite slavery in Egypt.---i thought they found something on this? I will have to re-research this

Please provide links to what you find.

Talking donkeys.---aint it amasing how many different animals we have taught forms of speech to. So this is not completely ruled out

Because to date there has never been another talking donkey.

Raising of the dead.---Doctors this day and age raise many people "from the dead".

Nice try, but there are a few problems with this reply...
Like the fact that they did not have the same equipment, they did not have the same understanding, etc.

Trial of Jesus.---some jewish materials substantiate this [and they didnt like Him]
Crucifixion of Jesus.---same as above and then some
Resurrection of Jesus.---same as above and then some

ROTFLMAO
You cannot even show that Jesus even existed outside the scriptures the Bible are loosely based upon...

 

[Mr Cheese]

Until you can provide evidence of a talking donkey it is....
Unsubstantiated

Utterly hilarious!!!

frubals to you ...:yes:

 

[McBell]

no It doesnt, you just refuse to believe the evidence because of your “hate” for God.

Yet ANOTHER unsubstantiated claim.

So the times when they say someone was clinically dead don’t count now?

Again, they did not have the same equipment, the same understanding, the same knowledge, etc.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I know the story and in no way does it come close to entailing the whole world. For instance lets just jump to the end


Genesis 10:1-5 - 1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born (8735) after the flood. 2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. 4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. 5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in (8738) their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Now some "global" flood kills everyone in the whole world except those in the boat and somehow they are dividing the isles of the gentiles. Also these seven people in the ark, did they all speak after different unique tongues? After their families? Arent they the sons of just one family, Noah? And somehow they had their own nations

A fine example of how the impossibly rapid repopulation of the earth is contrary to even the most devout of minds.

For yet seven days and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth
kol-hay·kum a·sher a·si·ti me·'al pe·nei ha·'a·da·mah u·ma·chi·ti
(Every living thing I have made wiped from the face of the earth)

If so then you should know not to fully rely on one translation

I prefer a direct translation from Hebrew. It seems to be a more accurate reading of the writers intent.

 

[AK4]

So basically you are resting your whole argument on your CLAIM: ' you don’t know the true scriptures"?

And we are supposed to take it seriously?

Not my claim and no i rest my whole argument on that.

 

[AK4]

Interesting. But you do realize that in the hebrew language there are multiple words for land. Maybe earth just simply means.....Earth, you know, like....Planet Earth.

Follow that word earth through the whole OT and see it fits as just planet earth

There are multiple lexicons. Some with obvious biases in their rendering of words. Strong's and Thayer and a few others are good but they do differ in some of their renderings. It's good to use multiples and cross reference. Keep in mind a Lexicon can only take you but so far so it's good to have a dictionary that focuses on the original word...to English.

This is true. Strongs even contradicts himself on the word aion. Yup lexicons and such can only take you so far, if you dont know what the whole them of the Word is about, you can easily confuse things up and contradict yourself

 

[McBell]

Not my claim and no i rest my whole argument on that.

Yes it is your claim.
You have made said claim more than once in this very thread.

Seems that your safety net is "you don’t know the true scriptures".

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Because to date there has never been another talking donkey.

Sorry to burst YOUR bubble but obviously haven't seen Shrek......:tsk:



....I just couldn't resist....

 

[tumbleweed41]

This plus other secular writings for ya here

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:2ao2Iq4LikMJ:ldolphin.org/floodleg.html+josephus+and+the+flood&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Poor link, let me help you...
"Now all the writers of barbarian histories make mention of this flood, and of this ark; among whom is Berosus the Chaldean. For when he is describing the circumstances of the flood, he goes on thus: ‘It is said there is still some part of this ship in Armenia, at the mountain of the Cordyaeans; and that some people carry off pieces of the bitumen, which they take away, and use chiefly as amulets for the averting of mischiefs.’ Hieronymus the Egyptian also, who wrote the Phoenician Antiquities, and Mnaseas, and a great many more books, makes mention of the same. Also, Nicolaus of Damascus, in his ninety-sixth book, has a particular interest; where he speaks thus: ‘There is a great mountain in Armenia, over Minyas, called Baris, upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the Deluge were saved; and that one who was carried in an ark came on shore upon the top of it; and that the remains of the timber were a great while preserved. This might be the man about whom Moses the legislator of the Jews wrote.’ "
Josephus, 35ce-100ce

Unfortunately for Josephus' claim, and yours, there is no evidence of a history of the writings he mentions. Nor would any writings of regional floods be evidence of the destruction of all life on earth as written in the Torah.

And again, the supposed event occurred thousands of years before Josephus was born.
So your claim is...
Unsubstantiated

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

no It doesnt, you just refuse to believe the evidence because of your “hate” for God.

On the contrary. While I don't like the God of the Bible very much, if he really did exist, I'd want to know about it. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.

This plus other secular writings for ya here

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:2ao2Iq4LikMJ:ldolphin.org/floodleg.html+josephus+and+the+flood&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Ah... so you just meant that Josephus believed the flood story of mainstream Judaism, not that he was privy to any special information as a historian, right?

I remembered hearing something about this but I never paid it too much attention

Your loss.

So the times when they say someone was clinically dead don’t count now?

Can you give an example?

 

[AK4]

Just making the claim does not make said claim true.
Until you can show how science substantiates the creation folklore this is merely an unsubstantiated claim about an unsubstantiated claim.

Like ive argued earlier in this post that science shows the creation having a beginning. That substantiates creation

Hate to burst your bubble and I understand that your choir swears by him, but Josephus is not a reliable source.
Especially given the proven fraud involved with some of his work.

I dont personally need him, but if it works it works.

Please provide links to what you find.

Just something i heard or read about but didnt pay much attention to. I dont swear by this one

Because to date there has never been another talking donkey.

Maybe, but there are plenty of animals that we have taught to be able to mimic human things

Nice try, but there are a few problems with this reply...
Like the fact that they did not have the same equipment, they did not have the same understanding, etc.

Yeah i thought about that but i also thought about some of the "superhuman" stuff some of the eastern nations do. Just recently watch fight science and they showed a man focusing his "chi" to keep a spear from going in his neck at i think 2000 psi. Anythings possible if that was really true what they did

ROTFLMAO
You cannot even show that Jesus even existed outside the scriptures the Bible are loosely based upon

I could have sworn i posted something already for this. maybe i will look for it again.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Follow that word earth through the whole OT and see it fits as just planet earth

Oh, don't get me wrong. I actually agree with you here. Why?....Because it actually strengthens my case against those that try and use Isaiah 40:22 as evidence that it was known that the "earth" was spherical instead of flat. If we are to believe that earth simply means "land" then I must be right in my assessment.

 

[AK4]

Yet ANOTHER unsubstantiated claim.


Again, they did not have the same equipment, the same understanding, the same knowledge, etc.

There was a reason why i put hate in quotes. I dont know his true feelings so that was the reason. So you are wrong there.

As for equipment etc etc, maybe not or maybe they were given a higher knowledge from God to be able to just maybe touch someone in the right spot with the right pressure to heal that person. Is it too far from accupunture and chiropratic stuff? I think not. What about what some eastern "holy cures"? Science has yet to explain some of those. And just for kicks--Spock death touch lol