Consider the influence an theistic opinion might have on a religious person or likewise. Are you comfortable in defending your position? What tools do believers have to defend the concept of God compared to the atheist's tools to defend his reasons for not believing in God?
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Should Believers Avoid and Fear Athiest?
- Thread starter GadFly
- Start date
Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
I don't understand why a theist would need to defend his or her position to an atheist.
Why can't we just talk as one human to another?
.lava
Veteran Member
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
The tools you seem to favor are logical fallacies like straw men, ad hominems, red herrings, etc.
Man has tried talking but it does not appear to have worked very well. I wonder why? What are we missing; for example, why it so difficult to come to terms with China (atheist) and democratic countries?
.lava
Veteran Member
you don't count Muslims as theists? that's weird.
Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
You are welcome to explain your non-fallacies ideas. For example, what is the universe like without God?:bow:
No, I do not. All men are brothers. Some Muslims are bad, some Christians are bad. Let's pray for them all.
.lava
Veteran Member
i think my treasure is my experience in this life, like everyone. i spent nearly 30 years out of religion and then i started having different kind of experiences. they blew my mind. people who knew me wanted to know what happened. i used to say 'i fell in love'
but this latest part of my life and the experiences i have are so profound and i can't even share them. they are too special and way too vast to put in words. i know they would appear like fairy tale or they would just get smaller and weaker in words.
so, to be honest, i don't think that i can defend my position. but i can try to explain whys by using logic. yet how much could you explain 'being in love'?
That is not correct. I do believe Muslims are theist. My secretary is going to have to shape up. I allow her to eat too much.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Exactly like it is now.
Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Bahai all stem from the same Abrahamaic god.
I love my wife and I know I love her. I do not have the words to express it at this time. The logic is still there but in time I may learn the correct words to express it. Good point!
Exactly like it is now. You have no bases for logic. All you do is attack. That's o key, go for it!
Here's a little education for everybody about premises. Aristotelean logic come to Western Civilization from the ancient Greeks (Plato, Socrates, Aristotle). They did not invent it but discovered this logic. Aristotelean logic is as good as its premises. If premises are faulty, the conclusion is going to be fallacies. The most primal promise of all is God. There is no relativity in God. He does not change but is absolute. The Absolute is God.
The atheist did not discover logic. They made up their own logic. The atheist do not believe in the Absolute. To them there is absolutely no Absolute. Their logic is all screwed up. They think reality changes all the time. That's what moral relativity is about, morality changes to suit man's wants and lust. The Communist is an example of those who use atheistic logic. That is why you waist time trying to pin an atheist down on factual arguments, his premises are constantly changing. That's why a Christian can not make sense out of atheistic logic. Argue with them and they'll always change the premises of what you say about God. Why do you believe God is a God of love, how can God be all powerful, etc. Stupid stuff,to take your mind off absolute truth, is what they major in. Of course, there are very intelligent atheist and some very nice people, but somehow, they have managed to use Aristotelean logic in their everyday life.
I don't avoid them. Just be sure you point out the fallacies in their logic or they'll have you doubting everything that is really real.
The atheist did not discover logic. They made up their own logic. The atheist do not believe in the Absolute. To them there is absolutely no Absolute. Their logic is all screwed up. They think reality changes all the time. That's what moral relativity is about, morality changes to suit man's wants and lust. The Communist is an example of those who use atheistic logic. That is why you waist time trying to pin an atheist down on factual arguments, his premises are constantly changing. That's why a Christian can not make sense out of atheistic logic. Argue with them and they'll always change the premises of what you say about God. Why do you believe God is a God of love, how can God be all powerful, etc. Stupid stuff,to take your mind off absolute truth, is what they major in. Of course, there are very intelligent atheist and some very nice people, but somehow, they have managed to use Aristotelean logic in their everyday life.
I don't avoid them. Just be sure you point out the fallacies in their logic or they'll have you doubting everything that is really real.
lunamoth
Will to love
I think 'defense' is not the right stance to take. I don't think it's even possible to debate about faith and religion. The best we can hope for is understanding, and if one's cause is to evangelize then talking (or telling) with an atheist is probably useless.
Both have the same tools, faith and reason.
Paul said it best:
1 Corinthians said:
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
You asked what is the universe like without god. Since I don't believe in god, naturally I would assume the universe to be as it is. It's like asking what is the world like as a sphere. What kind of logic would you look for in an answer to that? Perhaps it was the way you worded your own question.
And what to you constitutes an attack? Disagreement and disbelief?