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Should Believers Avoid and Fear Athiest?

whereismynotecard

Treasure Hunter
No one should fear anyone... based on religion that is... We should all just say "We are both wrong in the eyes of eachother; there is no need stressing over it." and then we can go laugh, because laughing is...so...fun. :D Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!
 

GadFly

Active Member
GadFly it seems to me that you are just out to pick a fight with the atheist around here. If you wanted to know more about atheistic logic you should have just asked.
Jeremiah, I get excited and out of control sometimes. I apologize to any atheist I have offended. I realize that I am too much of a zealot at times. I am working on that. Feel free to slow me down when I carry on like that.
:sorry1:
the GadFly is humbled

P.S. Please explain atheistic logic to me.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Here's a little education for everybody about premises. Aristotelean logic come to Western Civilization from the ancient Greeks (Plato, Socrates, Aristotle). They did not invent it but discovered this logic. Aristotelean logic is as good as its premises. If premises are faulty, the conclusion is going to be fallacies. The most primal promise of all is God. There is no relativity in God. He does not change but is absolute. The Absolute is God.

The atheist did not discover logic. They made up their own logic. The atheist do not believe in the Absolute. To them there is absolutely no Absolute. Their logic is all screwed up. They think reality changes all the time. That's what moral relativity is about, morality changes to suit man's wants and lust. The Communist is an example of those who use atheistic logic. That is why you waist time trying to pin an atheist down on factual arguments, his premises are constantly changing. That's why a Christian can not make sense out of atheistic logic. Argue with them and they'll always change the premises of what you say about God. Why do you believe God is a God of love, how can God be all powerful, etc. Stupid stuff,to take your mind off absolute truth, is what they major in. Of course, there are very intelligent atheist and some very nice people, but somehow, they have managed to use Aristotelean logic in their everyday life.

I don't avoid them. Just be sure you point out the fallacies in their logic or they'll have you doubting everything that is really real.

Atheist logic is called The Scientific Method. It put man in space.
 

GadFly

Active Member
I think 'defense' is not the right stance to take. I don't think it's even possible to debate about faith and religion. The best we can hope for is understanding, and if one's cause is to evangelize then talking (or telling) with an atheist is probably useless.

Both have the same tools, faith and reason.

Paul said it best:

Thank you. I enjoyed the lesson. Pray for the GadFly to gain understanding.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Here's a little education for everybody about premises. Aristotelean logic come to Western Civilization from the ancient Greeks (Plato, Socrates, Aristotle). They did not invent it but discovered this logic. Aristotelean logic is as good as its premises. If premises are faulty, the conclusion is going to be fallacies. The most primal promise of all is God. There is no relativity in God. He does not change but is absolute. The Absolute is God.

The atheist did not discover logic. They made up their own logic. The atheist do not believe in the Absolute. To them there is absolutely no Absolute. Their logic is all screwed up. They think reality changes all the time. That's what moral relativity is about, morality changes to suit man's wants and lust. The Communist is an example of those who use atheistic logic. That is why you waist time trying to pin an atheist down on factual arguments, his premises are constantly changing. That's why a Christian can not make sense out of atheistic logic. Argue with them and they'll always change the premises of what you say about God. Why do you believe God is a God of love, how can God be all powerful, etc. Stupid stuff,to take your mind off absolute truth, is what they major in. Of course, there are very intelligent atheist and some very nice people, but somehow, they have managed to use Aristotelean logic in their everyday life.

I don't avoid them. Just be sure you point out the fallacies in their logic or they'll have you doubting everything that is really real.

Wow. Where to begin? Um, where else would Aristotelian logic come from? Last I checked, Aristotle was a Greek, right?

If there is no relativity in God, then why do so many people have so many different ideas about him, some of them conflicting?

Humans discovered logic. Logic is like math, not a belief. You don't make it up, it's already there, and everyone uses the same kind. Please explain how an atheist's logic is screwed up? Examples would be great.

What's wrong morally with Communists? Is it bad to want everyone to be equal in all things?

How do the premises of an atheist change? There is no God, done. That's the premise of an atheist, and has been ever since there was a word "Atheist".

So, anything that challenges your faith is stupid stuff only meant to distract you from blindly believing in something illogical?

Give me an example of using Aristotelian logic in my daily life. And then tell me how that is bad.

Please feel free to point out the fallacies in my logic. If there are fallacies, I'd love to fix them.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
i recently red something about the biggest enemy of Muhammed(PBUH). if i am not mistaken he was Prophet's uncle. he was so mean and he's even mentioned in Qur'an. i could relate with an atheist because Prophet is a human being, flesh and bone, someone who looks like anyone and also, God is unseen.

according to the story, this guys does not want Prophet to salaat. one day he sees him praying and he gets mad. he grabs him to prevent him from salaat. yet when he touches Muhammed(PBUH), angels appear before his eyes and his hand feels tremendous heat. so he immediately removes his hand away not to burn.

that is what i can't relate. i know that if i was born somewhere else, if i grew up in different conditions, i could have been an atheist. yet what happened to that guy if ever happened to me, i could never resist anymore. i would not but he did. how is that possible? how could a person not consider such a thing as a proof? what kind of proof would make him believe?

i guess only atheists have the answer.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
P.S. Please explain atheistic logic to me.

Why are you now asking this question? Because your previous rant seemed to sum up what we believe or think. How can you say our logic is this way or that way if you need us to explain "athiest logic" to you.......


What particular area of atheism do you not understand?

science vs. evolution

our view on god(s), religion.....etc.....

Your statements come off as generalizing athiest. What we need to know from you is what it specifically do you not understand.
 

GadFly

Active Member
Yep. Atheist logic, a very uncomplicated thing, is just... you know... logic... The entire concept of god is illogical. No offense intended; even if you believe in god, do you find the concept to be logical?? Seriously, do you??
Yes, I believe. I can't think of a more basic premise to explain reasoning. I believe man's ability to reason and use logic comes from the Holy Spirit. How else could our ability to reason be possible? How is the concept of God not logical?
 

GadFly

Active Member
Wow. Where to begin? Um, where else would Aristotelian logic come from? Last I checked, Aristotle was a Greek, right?

If there is no relativity in God, then why do so many people have so many different ideas about him, some of them conflicting?

Humans discovered logic. Logic is like math, not a belief. You don't make it up, it's already there, and everyone uses the same kind. Please explain how an atheist's logic is screwed up? Examples would be great.

What's wrong morally with Communists? Is it bad to want everyone to be equal in all things?

How do the premises of an atheist change? There is no God, done. That's the premise of an atheist, and has been ever since there was a word "Atheist".

So, anything that challenges your faith is stupid stuff only meant to distract you from blindly believing in something illogical?

Give me an example of using Aristotelian logic in my daily life. And then tell me how that is bad.

Please feel free to point out the fallacies in my logic. If there are fallacies, I'd love to fix them.
Please pardon the GadFly if my presentation is too harsh. I mean no disrespect. I am trying to learn to be less harsh with my opinion. The hard line is an attempt to get people's attention. This point of view is often overlooked. What I am trying to do is to motivate a consistently used thought process which I believe will bring unity among men.

Aristotelian logic is based on the fact that truth does not change. Plato's forms, for example, are truths. A chair is known to be a chair. It may be a three legged chair. When it has four or five legs, it is still a chair. The concept of mother is a truth. When mother hugs you or spanks you, it is still mother. Mother is always the same and does not change. All truth comes from the most basic premises, the Absolute truth, which is God. What Plato called a "form" we might think of as a definition, say a chair. A chair is always a chair for everybody. Its truth does not rest on different mens opinion. It is what it is.

Other truths are also self evident. Americans believe in self evident truths and record these in the Constitution of the USA. Just like mother is self evident so is liberty, freedom of speech, and the pursuit of happiness.The right to defend yourself is self evident. This right does not change.

Liberals on the Supreme Court do not believe God or religion should no be part of government. These Judges believe the definition of what is true changes. Truth to them changes relative to man's perceived needs.These Judges are perceived to write new law instead of interpreting the law. But what they are doing is interpreting the law based on the belief that premises of truth changes.

The fallacies of Aristotelian logic comes when the definition of the premises change.This type of logic is called Hegelian logic, which was adopted by the Communist and atheistic societies. Liberals share this logic and resent being told so.

All men are created equal in that they all have the same gift of logic but it would be bad to be equal in all things. I don't want another person to have a wife like mine. I want her all to myself. I want a higher standard of living than my neighbor and I am willing to work for it. I don't want equality in that sense.

Stupid stuff was not a good term for me to have used as it might have offended somebody, for which I apologize. But, do you see how changing premises create fallacies in Hegelian logic and is often called evil?

Why do so many conflicting ideas about God exist? God is the only perfect premise, the Absolute. Man is not perfect but man that seeks truth is working to become perfect. Error is constantly working its way into man 's natural logical process so it appears that man never gets it right completely and all at one time. This explains world conflict which is always as bad as the errors that have worked into the natural process. The natural process of thinking on stable values is God's evidence to man that God exist. From this, the duty of man is to seek God.
Thank you for listening
GadFly
 

Smoke

Done here.
i recently red something about the biggest enemy of Muhammed(PBUH). if i am not mistaken he was Prophet's uncle. he was so mean and he's even mentioned in Qur'an. i could relate with an atheist because Prophet is a human being, flesh and bone, someone who looks like anyone and also, God is unseen.

according to the story, this guys does not want Prophet to salaat. one day he sees him praying and he gets mad. he grabs him to prevent him from salaat. yet when he touches Muhammed(PBUH), angels appear before his eyes and his hand feels tremendous heat. so he immediately removes his hand away not to burn.

that is what i can't relate. i know that if i was born somewhere else, if i grew up in different conditions, i could have been an atheist. yet what happened to that guy if ever happened to me, i could never resist anymore. i would not but he did. how is that possible? how could a person not consider such a thing as a proof? what kind of proof would make him believe?

i guess only atheists have the answer.
But Abu Lahab wasn't an atheist; he was a pagan. If your nephew was a pagan, and something like that happened to you, would you become a pagan?
 

GadFly

Active Member
Why are you now asking this question? Because your previous rant seemed to sum up what we believe or think. How can you say our logic is this way or that way if you need us to explain "athiest logic" to you.......


What particular area of atheism do you not understand?

science vs. evolution

our view on god(s), religion.....etc.....

Your statements come off as generalizing atheist. What we need to know from you is what it specifically do you not understand.

I apologize for ranting. I do that when I am excited. If ranting offends you, I am sorry.

One of the atheist brothers said here that logic was simply there when he was born. I agree very much with him. Another brother said logic was natural. I am sure you read these comments. I appreciate these comments and agree with these. Logic is just there, it is what it is. Any construction of a separate logic is not a logic at all such as Hegelian logic.

True science depends on Aristotelian logic. Without the un-changing truths of logic, science would not be possible. Science is not a logic but greatly depends on logic. To participate in science and other parts of existence, atheist and believer must participate in the same fixed rules of logic. When one stops believing in premises for logic, one is thinking out side of natural logic.

As you explain atheistic logic to me, I may learn something I had previously overlooked as only God is perfect. You also might learn something about how you think if it is indeed different from the way theist think.

If I generalize about atheist, it is only because I have specifically missed something about what atheist adds to the thinking process that I misunderstood. That is specifically what I would like to have explained to me, is how do atheist arrive at different beliefs using the same logic as theist use.

Hopefully we are beginning the process of understanding each other.
GadFly )(
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
GadFly

Whatever the hypothesis.....we need to know any and all data involved so that it can be scrutanized, tested, confirmed or debunked.....What we know continues to change because we continue to learn more. This is part of the "scientific method" some one referred you to.

You summize a god as a creator. This understanding is taught. This way of thinking is learned and is indoctrinated into a person. Some will tell you the gods did it and some will tell you a god did it. None of these ways of thinking have an iota of proof of what they purport. Every aspect of a god is from the minds of men and can not be tested, proven or disproven.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
But Abu Lahab wasn't an atheist; he was a pagan. If your nephew was a pagan, and something like that happened to you, would you become a pagan?

Pagans of those day are not very different from today's people. by people i mean everyone, including atheists. everyone follows something else whether you call it god or not.
an atheist trusts his personal point of view. that personal thing is ego and that is the most common god of today. the same 'shirk' of Pagans that described in Islam. taking something else instead of God. could be anything.

Pagans do not have power on me. that kind of experience could not be offered through a disbeliever and angels would not appear as their guards around, ever.

i was and i still am asking the same question cos i really don't know. what would you consider as a satisfying evidence?
 
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