Should Christians Be Keeping the Sabbath?

[psychoslice]

Saturday is in the Bible?

It sure is, and it always has been there, but some try in vain to change it just because its part of their particular religion.

 

[shmogie]

I don't need to, its in the bible, now where in the bible does it say the Sabbath was changed to Sunday, you might try to manipulate words to suit your beliefs, but that is all it will be, manipulation.

The fact that jews have stopped obeying parts of the law does not make them right.




Laws do not cease to exist once they have been enforced.



Yes the old laws are rather strict and yes under them most of us deserve death.

That only means that you should try harder not to break them, not that you can ignore them.

Laws are changed/.modified all the time. If you rely on your ability to keep the law, You fail.



Do not forget

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

I am sure you would agree that the word of Jesus holds more weight than any mere human.

The law still stands, just because we as humans are unwilling to obey them and suffer the consequences does not mean we get to ignore them.

You cannot really call yourself a christian, or a jew for that matter, if you do not follow these rules.

The fact that jews have stopped obeying parts of the law does not make them right.


Please cite book, chapter verse, and translation of your quote.


Laws do not cease to exist once they have been enforced.



Yes the old laws are rather strict and yes under them most of us deserve death.

That only means that you should try harder not to break them, not that you can ignore them.










Do not forget

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

I am sure you would agree that the word of Jesus holds more weight than any mere human.

The law still stands, just because we as humans are unwilling to obey.

I would suggest that you consider the wisdom of you determining who can call themselves a Jew or Christian. That is Gods responsibility, not yours

I object to your calling Rosends arrogant. I really don't think of him as arrogant. Maybe there is just a misunderstanding.

I object to your calling Rosends arrogant. I really don't think of him as arrogant. Maybe there is just a misunderstanding.

I object to your calling Rosends arrogant. I really don't think of him as arrogant. Maybe there is just a misunderstanding.

I don't need to, its in the bible, now where in the bible does it say the Sabbath was changed to Sunday, you might try to manipulate words to suit your beliefs, but that is all it will be, manipulation.

 

[shmogie]

Your objection is well founded. I retract the statement re arrogance. I was out of line

 

[shmogie]

Anyways, back on topic. Technically, Xians probably are not ''obligated'' to keep a Sabbath, regardless of Sunday, etc. However, that being said, it used to be common for various Xians to keep a Sunday Sabbath, and a strict one, at that.

True ! In a misguided attempt to please an angry God, they took the law for the Jew's, mingled it with the traditional day of sunday worship, and came up with a " Christian sabbath" a non sequitur
Please note, Followers of The Way, Christians, are not xtian's. I know no offense was intended, but.....................

 

[shmogie]

It sure is, and it always has been there, but some try in vain to change it just because its part of their particular religion.

Please cite chapter and verse in the OT that says Gentiles should keep the sabbath.
Please cite chapter and verse in the NT that says Christians should keep the sabbath
PLease cite chapter and verse of "saturday" being used anywhere in the Bible.

 

[shmogie]

I assume that much of the Christian world believes in virgin births and demon-infested pigs as well, and you are most welcome to do so. But for Jews here, Paul has somewhat less than zero authority.

Ah well, you believe in talking bushes, wooden rods that turn into snakes, and ravens that cater dinner for lonely prophets
Glass houses and all that

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Ah well, you believe in talking bushes, wooden rods that turn into snakes, and ravens that cater dinner for lonely prophets

In point of fact, I do not, but fact does not appear to be a matter of concern for you.

Glass houses and all that

The only thing worth shattering here is your adolescent presuppositions.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Ah well, you believe in talking bushes, wooden rods that turn into snakes, and ravens that cater dinner for lonely prophets
Glass houses and all that

There are secular Jews who don't believe in any miracles or supernatural entities. Do you know that?

 

[shmogie]

There are secular Jews who don't believe in any miracles or supernatural entities. Do you know that?

Well, of course. Atheists by any other name still smell the same

 

[shmogie]

In point of fact, I do not, but fact does not appear to be a matter of concern for you.
The only thing worth shattering here is your adolescent presuppositions.

Well I assumed you were a religious Jew, since you are posting on a thread related to Christians and the Torah application to them, certainly a religious topic. Or you may be a Jew that believes, so far, no matter, it would appear as though you are wasting your time on this subject, what do you think your contribution could be on the matter ?

 

[Desert Snake]

True ! In a misguided attempt to please an angry God, they took the law for the Jew's, mingled it with the traditional day of sunday worship, and came up with a " Christian sabbath" a non sequitur
Please note, Followers of The Way, Christians, are not xtian's. I know no offense was intended, but.....................

Well, I wasn't saying that. I was saying that ''technically''...which is probably not the best way to judge whether someone should be doing something, lol. ''X'', merely is a traditional way of writing Christ. I would think, a more accurate statement might be, ''Christians are not Christians''. Since you are polite, I'll write Christians in accordance with our dialogue, not an issue.
cheers, //disciple

 

[psychoslice]

Please cite chapter and verse in the OT that says Gentiles should keep the sabbath.
Please cite chapter and verse in the NT that says Christians should keep the sabbath
PLease cite chapter and verse of "saturday" being used anywhere in the Bible.

You have separated yourself from the bible by calling yourself a gentile, where it is said, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". There was no such name as a Christian in those days, again you are separating yourself. The Sabbath is on the Saturday, the seventh day of the week, look up your dictionary.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Well I assumed you were a religious Jew, ...

No, you naively presumed that I am a fundamentalist and literalist.

As for whether or not Christians should observe Shabbat, I believe it to be entirely up to them.

 

[shmogie]

No, you naively presumed that I am a fundamentalist and literalist.

As for whether or not Christians should observe Shabbat, I believe it to be entirely up to them.

Fine, we can agree on that.

 

[shmogie]

Well, I wasn't saying that. I was saying that ''technically''...which is probably not the best way to judge whether someone should be doing something, lol. ''X'', merely is a traditional way of writing Christ. I would think, a more accurate statement might be, ''Christians are not Christians''. Since you are polite, I'll write Christians in accordance with our dialogue, not an issue.
cheers, //disciple

Thank you for your consideration'
I think more than technically. As I have stated elsewhere, if a Christian is supposed to keep the sabbath, it must be commanded somewhere in the NT. It is not. Many other commands are made regarding worship, relating to God, relating to other people, the civil law but this one is conspicuously absent. I cannot but wonder why. if this day is so important, why not say so,some where ?? The sabbath for humans was instituted just before the law was given at Sinai, it was given to Israel. At Sinai it was given again to Israel, and they were told it was a covenant sign between THEY, and GOD, forever. It was solely for Jews ,forever. The only way you can make it binding on Christians is by "replacement theology", replacing the Jews by Christians as now the inheritors of the covenant sign, and bound by it. I reject this

 

[Desert Snake]

Thank you for your consideration'
I think more than technically. As I have stated elsewhere, if a Christian is supposed to keep the sabbath, it must be commanded somewhere in the NT. It is not. Many other commands are made regarding worship, relating to God, relating to other people, the civil law but this one is conspicuously absent. I cannot but wonder why. if this day is so important, why not say so,some where ?? The sabbath for humans was instituted just before the law was given at Sinai, it was given to Israel. At Sinai it was given again to Israel, and they were told it was a covenant sign between THEY, and GOD, forever. It was solely for Jews ,forever. The only way you can make it binding on Christians is by "replacement theology", replacing the Jews by Christians as now the inheritors of the covenant sign, and bound by it. I reject this

*The adherence to Jesu, by default, means that we are not under the ''same'' laws as would be assumed in Judaism. However, this does not mean that one is using ''replacement theology'', when one adheres to various OT laws. It isn't possible, because one has already denoted through belief and adherence, a different paradigm. The entire ''replacement theology'' argument considering Christianity--Judaism, is bunk. Can't happen, isn't happening. What is actually occurring, when Christians adhere to the OT, whether in teaching, or certain law adherence, is from a Christian, or non-Judaism position. This type of OT adherence, /which is traditional for some Christians/, is not from the perspective of Judaism, it's apples and oranges. Traditionally, ''we'', /those not practicing Judaism/, have our own 'rules' concerning the OT laws, and this varies between Christian groups. If you are talking some Catholics, etc., then sure, you are presenting their perspective, however, that perspective is not monolithic within Christian tradition.

So, you are correct, there is no ''replacement theology'' taking place. But, you are incorrect, in stating that any adherence to the OT laws is incorrect, or ''replacement theology'', it simply isn't. Hence, why we have things like, ''technically'', a Christian could do such and such. The important thing about this discussion, imo, is dropping the false notion of replacement theology, in this context. It's the wrong term, and isn't accurate.

*Or anyone not practicing certain Rabbinic Judaism

 

[shmogie]

You have separated yourself from the bible by calling yourself a gentile, where it is said, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". There was no such name as a Christian in those days, again you are separating yourself. The Sabbath is on the Saturday, the seventh day of the week, look up your dictionary.[/QUOTE
I do not have to use a dictionary, I have been reading the Bible for many years. You are totally correct, the sabbath is saturday. It has never been changed to sunday. Your verse is totally correct Christians are all equal and there are no racial distinctions. With me so far ? A Jew would call me a Gentile, which I am to him, after all, if he isn't a Christian, you can't expect him to follow Christian rules.
Now follow very closely this is the last time I am going to explain this, focus !
In the book of Genesis, the sabbath was given to the Jews, for them alone. God clearly said this.
Here we go................................... Using your verse, There are no Jews in Christianity, all are the same, with no racial distinctions.
Therefore, since the sabbath was given to the Jews only, and there are no Jews in Christianity, Christians are not required to keep the sabbath, for God gave it to the Jews, alone.
The first Christians were called the Followers of the Way. They have been called Christians ( followers of Christ) for 2,000 years

 

[shmogie]

*The adherence to Jesu, by default, means that we are not under the ''same'' laws as would be assumed in Judaism. However, this does not mean that one is using ''replacement theology'', when one adheres to various OT laws. It isn't possible, because one has already denoted through belief and adherence, a different paradigm. The entire ''replacement theology'' argument considering Christianity--Judaism, is bunk. Can't happen, isn't happening. What is actually occurring, when Christians adhere to the OT, whether in teaching, or certain law adherence, is from a Christian, or non-Judaism position. This type of OT adherence, /which is traditional for some Christians/, is not from the perspective of Judaism, it's apples and oranges. Traditionally, ''we'', /those not practicing Judaism/, have our own 'rules' concerning the OT laws, and this varies between Christian groups. If you are talking some Catholics, etc., then sure, you are presenting their perspective, however, that perspective is not monolithic within Christian tradition.

So, you are correct, there is no ''replacement theology'' taking place. But, you are incorrect, in stating that any adherence to the OT laws is incorrect, or ''replacement theology'', it simply isn't. Hence, why we have things like, ''technically'', a Christian could do such and such. The important thing about this discussion, imo, is dropping the false notion of replacement theology, in this context. It's the wrong term, and isn't accurate.

*Or anyone not practicing certain Rabbinic Judaism

I am speaking of the sabbath, and the sabbath only. The only way a Christian can be compelled to keep the sabbath, is to substitute Christianity as the chosen for Israel (substitution theology ) thus making them the heirs to the sabbath being a sign between they and God forever. If Christianity is not Israel, then the sabbath has no relevance to them. It applies to someone else. This is the case in whatever paradigm you choose.

 

[Desert Snake]

I am speaking of the sabbath, and the sabbath only. The only way a Christian can be compelled to keep the sabbath, is to substitute Christianity as the chosen for Israel (substitution theology ) thus making them the heirs to the sabbath being a sign between they and God forever. If Christianity is not Israel, then the sabbath has no relevance to them. It applies to someone else. This is the case in whatever paradigm you choose.

Christianity is a broad label. I'm not sure what, if any, denomination you are. The notion of replacement theology, however, is incorrect. I think that we will just have to disagree on this. Do I think that Christians ''should'' be keeping the Sabbath, personally? Couldn't care less.

 

[shmogie]

Christianity is a broad label. I'm not sure what, if any, denomination you are. The notion of replacement theology, however, is incorrect. I think that we will just have to disagree on this. Do I think that Christians ''should'' be keeping the Sabbath, personally? Couldn't care less.

My religious training was in the SDA church, a denomination steeped in replacement theology. They compel keeping the sabbath, because they are heirs to the promise.