Should christians ignore the OT?

[sojourner]

Good,I just see many christians who disagree with you, and I see Jesus's "clamid teachings"
(i don't believe jesus said such things) in the bible,and allmost no where else.
Where can we find these word's of Jesus?

In the witness of the Church. That's where you need to look.
I don't believe Jesus said some of them, either. Some of the quotations were later interpolations. None of which denies the veracity of the canon scriptures as holy, inspired writings worthy of our attention.

 

[GiGi Lindsey]

In the witness of the Church. That's where you need to look.
I don't believe Jesus said some of them, either. Some of the quotations were later interpolations. None of which denies the veracity of the canon scriptures as holy, inspired writings worthy of our attention.

I've never heard a Christian deny the Bible, not even a little bit. May I ask your denomination? Is this the position of your Church?

 

[Alceste]

I've never heard a Christian deny the Bible, not even a little bit. May I ask your denomination? Is this the position of your Church?

I don't know about Sojourner, but the second largest denomination in Canada (United Church) are aware of the actual history the Bible, and are not required to accept scripture as the literal truth of God. They're not even required to accept the resurrection as a historical fact. I don't know if you'd call that "denying" the Bible. To me it seems more meaningful to know where the book came from and what it's actually about than to claim God wrote it and everything in it is literally true.

 

[Zhakir]

In the witness of the Church. That's where you need to look.
I don't believe Jesus said some of them, either. Some of the quotations were later interpolations. None of which denies the veracity of the canon scriptures as holy, inspired writings worthy of our attention.

Why didn't you say so from the biginning,
I told you no now believes in the bible,or believe it's God's word.

 

[sojourner]

I've never heard a Christian deny the Bible, not even a little bit. May I ask your denomination? Is this the position of your Church?

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). We don't take an official position with regard to Biblical belief.

How much time have you spent around Biblical scholars? Most of them will be happy to tell you that the Bible is neither infallible, nor that all Jesus Quotes are authentic.

None of which means that I "deny the Bible." I simply try to look at it for what it is: The written record of our relationship with God, approved for use in the Church.

 

[sojourner]

Why didn't you say so from the biginning,
I told you no now believes in the bible,or believe it's God's word.

You're twisting my words. I believe in the Bible, but I believe in it for what it is, not for what you wish it was. It is God's Word, insofar as it is the Word of the Body of Christ, who is God Incarnate.

Plus, just because I don't believe that some of the quotations ascribed to Jesus are authentic doesn't mean that many of them aren't authentic. As usual, you've been too quick to take things too far.

 

[Zhakir]

I don't believe Jesus said some of them, either.

Really?...

I believe in the Bible, but I believe in it for what it is, not for what you wish it was. It is God's Word

Really?...

God does not lie. The Bible is not "God's own words." Therefore, the contradictions have absolutely no bearing on your argument.

Really?....
I'm a bit confused!

 

[sojourner]

Really?...

Really?...


Really?....
I'm a bit confused!

Of course you are! That's to be expected from someone who does not know
1) how to read the Bible
2) how it came about
3) why we have it
4) why we revere it as scripture

 

[Zhakir]

Of course you are! That's to be expected from someone who does not know
1) how to read the Bible
2) how it came about
3) why we have it
4) why we revere it as scripture

Quote:

I don't believe Jesus said some of them, either.

Really?...

Quote:

I believe in the Bible, but I believe in it for what it is, not for what you wish it was. It is God's Word

Really?...


Quote:

God does not lie. The Bible is not "God's own words." Therefore, the contradictions have absolutely no bearing on your argument.

Really?....
:biglaugh:
------------------------------------------

You don't know
**How to get off,will you please stop contradicting your self
(reminds me of the bible writeres )

 

[sojourner]

Quote:


Really?...

Quote:

Really?...


Quote:

Really?....
:biglaugh:
------------------------------------------

You don't know
**How to get off,will you please stop contradicting your self
(reminds me of the bible writeres )

Meaning ... what, exactly? You're making even less sense now than you have been (which is really saying something!) You can't even come up with a decent argument without pulling my post out of context and laughing at it.

I believe in the Bible for what it is: the written record of our relationship to God. The Bible is not the literal words of God. Some of the quotes attributed to Jesus are not authentic quotes. The Bible is not infallible. The Bible contains truth, as conveyed by stories that are not necessarily factual in their content, yet truthful in their theological thrust.
Yes, the Bible presents some contradiction in it's factual content. That does not negate the truth of its message.

Find one contradictory statement here.

 

[Zhakir]

I believe in the Bible for what it is: the written record of our relationship to God......

........Yes, the Bible presents some contradiction in it's factual content. That does not negate the truth of its message.

That you don't believe in.

 

[sojourner]

That you don't believe in.

How is that contradictory? Be specific. I just said that I do believe in it. Try again. You're coming closer to enlightenment every second. I can feel it.

 

[Zhakir]

How is that contradictory? Be specific. I just said that I do believe in it. Try again. You're coming closer to enlightenment every second. I can feel it.

Why should we believe that?

I don't have to believe that the earth is flat.

I don't have to believe that the earth doesn't move.

:ko:

Now get up!.

 

[sojourner]

Why should we believe that?

I didn't ask you to believe in it. I stated it as a fact, and that ought to be good enough for you, if only for the sake of mutual respect. BTW, who's this "We?" Got a mouse in your pocket?

I don't have to believe that the earth is flat.

Neither do I. Why is this such an issue for you?

I don't have to believe that the earth doesn't move.

Nor do I.
Where are you getting this stuff?
You're the only one who's saying that "I must believe the earth is flat and does not move."
Why are you saying that?
Why attempt to hold me to some false criterion of belief, and then question my faith when I say that I don't accept that criterion. You're not my father, or my religious dictator.

Why not stop playing these ridiculous games, answer some real questions with real answers, muster up some respect for the members here who truly wish to debate religious topics in a fair manner?

Why continue to isolate yourself from the rest of us?

Oh, and BTW, I've been up the whole time. You really are a legend in your own mind.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Where are you getting this stuff?
You're the only one who's saying that "I must believe the earth is flat and does not move."
Why are you saying that?
Why attempt to hold me to some false criterion of belief, and then question my faith when I say that I don't accept that criterion. You're not my father, or my religious dictator.

Here's the bit that I find especially odd:

Zhakir, if you go by the literal word of the Quran, it says that the Earth is flat as well. It says that there is a place on Earth (a swamp, specifically) where the Sun rests when it sets. It says all sorts of things that, when taken literally, are just plain goofy. Since you're apparently willing to allow for interpretation of the Quran that uses metaphor, symbolism and poetry, why are you unwilling to extend the same courtesy to adherents of other religions in the interpretation of their sciptures? It hardly seems sporting not to.

 

[sojourner]

Here's the bit that I find especially odd:

Zhakir, if you go by the literal word of the Quran, it says that the Earth is flat as well. It says that there is a place on Earth (a swamp, specifically) where the Sun rests when it sets. It says all sorts of things that, when taken literally, are just plain goofy. Since you're apparently willing to allow for interpretation of the Quran that uses metaphor, symbolism and poetry, why are you unwilling to extend the same courtesy to adherents of other religions in the interpretation of their sciptures? It hardly seems sporting not to.

Ree -hee-hee-hee-eeeaaallly!!!
Oh, dear! A swamp where the sun rests when it sets?!
Oh, my!
Where in the sky does this swamp exist? Or does the Sun (which we know is many, many times the size of the earth) rest on the earth every night, thus vaporizing the earth?
Well! Allllrighty, then! If Zahk doesn't believe this, then maybe we can reasonably question his faith, too!

What about it, Zahk, ol' pal? What say you now?

 

[GiGi Lindsey]

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). We don't take an official position with regard to Biblical belief.

How much time have you spent around Biblical scholars? Most of them will be happy to tell you that the Bible is neither infallible, nor that all Jesus Quotes are authentic.

None of which means that I "deny the Bible." I simply try to look at it for what it is: The written record of our relationship with God, approved for use in the Church.

Deny--poor choice of words. I have spent exactly zero hours with biblical scholars. My questions are genuine. I wouldn't ask if I didn't want to know.

 

[sojourner]

Deny--poor choice of words. I have spent exactly zero hours with biblical scholars. My questions are genuine. I wouldn't ask if I didn't want to know.

Fair enough. This pointless sparring is making me edgy.

Rephrase your question so that I can understand what it is you want to know. I'll be happy to answer. That is, if you can get through the flaming.

 

[GiGi Lindsey]

I don't know about Sojourner, but the second largest denomination in Canada (United Church) are aware of the actual history the Bible, and are not required to accept scripture as the literal truth of God. They're not even required to accept the resurrection as a historical fact. I don't know if you'd call that "denying" the Bible. To me it seems more meaningful to know where the book came from and what it's actually about than to claim God wrote it and everything in it is literally true.

I live in a place where there is a church of some sort on every corner. The Christians I know take every single word literally. No thought is given to its history or intended meaning. For those of us who don't believe, we are more likely to get a black-eye than an answer.
I'm not a complete block-head. I have read the bible, and studied some ancient history. I would be interested in hearing more about the United Church.

 

[Zhakir]

Ree -hee-hee-hee-eeeaaallly!!!
Oh, dear! A swamp where the sun rests when it sets?!
Oh, my!
Where in the sky does this swamp exist? Or does the Sun (which we know is many, many times the size of the earth) rest on the earth every night, thus vaporizing the earth?
Well! Allllrighty, then! If Zahk doesn't believe this, then maybe we can reasonably question his faith, too!

What about it, Zahk, ol' pal? What say you now?

Not "Ree -hee-hee-hee-eeeaaallly!!!"
Quran
18:17
And thou mightest have seen the sun when it rose move away from their cave to the right, and when it set go past them on the left, andthey were in the cleft thereof. That was (one) of the portents of Allah. Hewhom Allah guideth, he indeed is led aright, and he whom He sendeth astray,for him thou wilt not find a guiding friend.

Quran Miracles | ALL AFLOAT IN ORBITS
Quran Miracles | DEATH OF THE STARS AND THE SUN
Quran Miracles | ROLLING THE NIGHT OVER THE DAY