Should christians ignore the OT?

[GiGi Lindsey]

Fair enough. This pointless sparring is making me edgy.

Rephrase your question so that I can understand what it is you want to know. I'll be happy to answer. That is, if you can get through the flaming.

I don't want to spar with you. Perhaps we'll meet again another day.

 

[sojourner]

I don't want to spar with you. Perhaps we'll meet again another day.

Sorry. it's not pointless sparring with you that I meant. It was the pointless sparring with Zahk.
Your question, I think, is well-placed, and I'll be more than happy to answer it, if I was clear as to what you want to know. Please rephrase.

 

[Zhakir]

Sparring,but having no replies or responses.

Quran Miracles - Miracles of the Qur'an

 

[sojourner]

Sparring,but having no replies or responses.

Quran Miracles - Miracles of the Qur'an

I got your response right here.
:foot:

 

[Zhakir]

You'll get alot of that in Hell,won't you?.Because you sure Now Quran is God's word and still reject it.

 

[sojourner]

You'll get alot of that in Hell,won't you?.Because you sure Now Quran is God's word and still reject it.

I didn't say that the Koran is God's word. You said that it's God's word. And I don't necessarily reject it.
Plus, there is no hell for us. God saw to that when God became Incarnate in the Person of Jesus and reconciled humanity to God's Self.

 

[Zhakir]

I didn't say that the Koran is God's word. You said that it's God's word.

I never said that you said Quran is so,I said:you are sure it is.

And I don't necessarily reject it.

I told you,you are sure it's God's word.

Plus, there is no hell for us.

We shall see about that

God saw to that when God became Incarnate in the Person of Jesus and reconciled humanity to God's Self.

God reconciled humanity to himself(if both are one),You can believe in it if you want to but you can't prove it.

 

[sojourner]

I never said that you said Quran is so,I said:you are sure it is.

Oh, I see, now. A new tactic. Since you can't prove the inane statement that I don't believe in the Bible, you're now making anoter inane assertion that I am sure the Koran is God's word. It won't work. I never said that. Have you ever grasped the concept of "gray area?" You really need to. Just because I don't "dismiss" the Koran is no reason to think that "am sure that it's God's word." I believe you think it's God's word. I do not believe that, myself.

We shall see about that

What's with this "we" stuff, again? Another mouse in your pocket? Or are you already planning on being there, yourself, to find out?

God reconciled humanity to himself(if both are one),You can believe in it if you want to but you can't prove it.

So? There are lots of things you obviously believe that you obviously can't prove. So what? Faith isn't about proof. And, obviously, I can't "believe in it if I want," or you wouldn't be giving me grief over it.

BTW, what does any of this have to do with "ignoring the OT," (which, incidentally, is also patently untrue)?

 

[Zhakir]

Oh, I see, now. A new tactic. Since you can't prove the inane statement that I don't believe in the Bible, you're now making anoter inane assertion that I am sure the Koran is God's word. It won't work. I never said that. Have you ever grasped the concept of "gray area?" You really need to. Just because I don't "dismiss" the Koran is no reason to think that "am sure that it's God's word." I believe you think it's God's word. I do not believe that, myself.

But I can ,I'm sure you don't believe in the bible and it's errors.

What's with this "we" stuff, again? Another mouse in your pocket? Or are you already planning on being there, yourself, to find out?

Get ready,after you die you'll be sure of every thing,I'm now sure ,truth rejecters will go to hell
4:56

Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

So? There are lots of things you obviously believe that you obviously can't prove.

Incorrect,not alot of things
Only wrong things can never be proved to be right but can -God willing-be proved wrong.and right things can never be proved to be wrong,but -God willing- can be proved right
And God wills to Prove his religion .

 

[sojourner]

But I can ,I'm sure you don't believe in the bible and it's errors.

BZZZZZZZZT! Thanks for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts for you, including the home version of "Head Up My Butt."

Get ready,after you die you'll be sure of every thing,I'm now sure ,truth rejecters will go to hell

I don't believe even you will go to hell...

And God wills to Prove his religion

And all this time I thought that God willed to reveal God's religion, and then willed to have us witness to it. Oh well.
(And I could have had a V-8!)

 

[Zhakir]

What is it Sunni Zhakir? the Guy said that he doesn't believe in the the Qur'an, You're not to tell him about what he believes in.

Sorry brother sojourner, Hadith effects.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Should christians ignore the OT?[/B]

Why not? They seem to ignore the NT as well!

 

[SBrent]

Not ignore it, but counterbalance it with the perspectives actually offered by Christ himself in the NT

 

[DeitySlayer]

Not "Ree -hee-hee-hee-eeeaaallly!!!"
Quran
18:17
And thou mightest have seen the sun when it rose move away from their cave to the right, and when it set go past them on the left, andthey were in the cleft thereof. That was (one) of the portents of Allah. Hewhom Allah guideth, he indeed is led aright, and he whom He sendeth astray,for him thou wilt not find a guiding friend.

Quote the right passage at least.

"Until when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water" Qur’an, 18:86

Quran Miracles | ALL AFLOAT IN ORBITS

Greeks already knew this, they just made their model geocentric, rather than heliocentric, same as the Qur'an, if read literally.

Quran Miracles | DEATH OF THE STARS AND THE SUN

The Chinese recorded a supernova in 185 AD.

Quran Miracles | ROLLING THE NIGHT OVER THE DAY

Last time I checked, you didn't really need a divine revelation to figure out that the night and day follow each other. Hardly a miracle.

 

[Zhakir]

Welcome DeitySlayer.
May i first ask you this one important question.... Where does the sun set?

 

[Noaidi]

I'm in a discussion on another site, discussing the sabbath. The OT, in the 4th commandment, tells humans to observe the sabbath, and in the book of Numbers, the fate is outlined of a man who gathered sticks on the sabbath and was subsequently stoned to death for this 'crime' (perhaps for nothing more than building a fire to heat food or water for his family).

Exodus tells us "Whoever does any work on it [the sabbath] is to be put to death". (Exodus 35:2).

To what extent should these ancient OT jewish laws be upheld? Are they applicable to christians today because, after all, Sunday is regarded by christians as the sabbath, and humans are not supposed to do any work? How far should believers go in seeing that the commandment is met - a quiet word in the miscreant's ear? Stoning?

I have a real problem with the sabbath. I live in a very christian community and have been chastised for hanging out laundry or walking my dog on a sunday by fundamentalists who think I should observe some archaic jewish laws. Are they really applicable today? Does the sight of my boxers flapping in the Sunday breeze really offend god so much?

 

[Zhakir]

Welcome DeitySlayer.
May i first ask you this one important question.... Where does the sun set?

It dosn't even set or rise,the answer is no where, yet we use the term "sunset" and "sunrise" in our everyday conversation. Does it mean that we think it moves around earth? no.
It's even more clear in Arabic language, the terms used for sunrise and set are not derived even derived from directions or sun movements as in english, It's derived from light and dark. We can say "Ashraqat ashamsu" which means in Arabic "sunrise" but literally it means: light appeared or shined.
Qur'an also used the term "Ashrqat alardu" meaning Light on earth, Same Ashraqat used in both Sun and Earth. should you translate it as moved or sat also?

 

[arimoff]

*** Mod Edit ***

The original post has been removed. The text of the post can be read here: http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm

Stupid questions deserve only stupid answers.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I'm in a discussion on another site, discussing the sabbath. The OT, in the 4th commandment, tells humans to observe the sabbath, and in the book of Numbers, the fate is outlined of a man who gathered sticks on the sabbath and was subsequently stoned to death for this 'crime' (perhaps for nothing more than building a fire to heat food or water for his family).

Exodus tells us "Whoever does any work on it [the sabbath] is to be put to death". (Exodus 35:2).

To what extent should these ancient OT jewish laws be upheld? Are they applicable to christians today because, after all, Sunday is regarded by christians as the sabbath, and humans are not supposed to do any work? How far should believers go in seeing that the commandment is met - a quiet word in the miscreant's ear? Stoning?

Something I don't think that has ever been explained to you is that the Torah is not a cookbook, where you can just look at it and know exactly what to do. There's a whole court system when it comes to inflicting corporal punishment.... due process, judges, witnesses, and all that.

So few deaths have ever been the result of the Torah's capital punishment statutes that one might wonder why they're in there in the first place.

Plus, now that there is neither a Holy Temple in Jerusalem nor a Sanhedrin to hear capital cases, Jews do not have the jurisdiction to execute anyone guilty of capital offenses... or take them to trial even.

Sure, there are minor religious courts used to adjudicate civil matters, deal with things like weddings and conversions and other things... but none that have the power to hear a capital case.

Then there's the matter of what constitutes work, which was known quite well to the Jews in the desert as it is today... but it isn't explicitly written in "The Bible".

Then there's the fact that Sunday is not the sabbath...

And the fact that non-Jews aren't obligated to keep the sabbath...


Do you have any questions about what I've just said?

 

[Zardoz]

...So few deaths have ever been the result of the Torah's capital punishment statutes that one might wonder why they're in there in the first place.

Indeed, a Sanhedren that killed one person in 70 years, was considered a killer court. That's how few times the death penalty was actually used.

Then there's the fact that Sunday is not the sabbath...

And the fact that non-Jews aren't obligated to keep the sabbath...

Quoted for truth!

I've often wondered how blue laws stay on the books, when they're obviously unconstitutional. Ever wonder why you can't buy a car on a sunday? Why, the bible says you can't!