Should Citizens Use Deadly Force Against Cops?

[Revoltingest]

So today I ran across this post...
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3500716-post551.html
That rabble rouser, Jeremy Mason, prompted this thought.
Should citizens use deadly force against cops who rape them?
(Note: I'm using the new FBI definition, so it's clearly "rape".)
From Jeremy's link...

The first video was graphic enough. Two women, as shown in a Texas state trooper’s dash cam recording, are probed in their vaginas and rectums by a glove-wearing female officer after a routine traffic stop near Dallas.
A few days later, a second video surfaced. It was an eerily similar scenario, but this time the traffic stop was just outside Houston, and with different troopers. Two women, pulled over for allegedly speeding, are subjected to body cavity searches by a female officer summoned to the scene by a male trooper.
Unlike the earlier tape, this one had clear audio. Yells can be heard as the female trooper shoves her gloved finger inside one woman.
In both invasive incidents, the female troopers don't change gloves between probes, according to the horrified victims.

Some thoughts:
- This appears to be written policy in TX, despite the knowledge that it's illegal.
- Cops usually get away with this without sanction.
- In the rare case they are sanctioned, it's a slap on the wrist....with pay.
- No person should have to endure rape just because the perp is a government employee.
- All people have the right to defend themselves against assault.

Note to mods:
I'm not proposing anything illegal, since to defend oneself against
an illegal violent assault is legal....albeit, fraught with legal peril.

 

[Father Heathen]

**** like that needs to make front page national news, rather than be overshadowed by the likes of "royal" urchins and "twerking" hacks.

Even if you could argue that, ethically, they are within reason to defend themselves with deadly force, I don't see them getting away with it through the legal system.

 

[Revoltingest]

**** like that needs to make front page national news, rather than be overshadowed by the likes of "royal" urchins and "twerking" hacks.

Even if you could argue that, ethically, they are within reason to defend themselves with deadly force, I don't see them getting away with it through the legal system.

True dat. Victims who successfully defend themselves would likely fare well
with a jury, but the problem is staying alive once more cops get involved.

The fact that we see no national level objection against this is suspicious. Note how Obama weighed in in the Zimmerman-Martin case, yet he's silent about widespread governmental rape of citizens. Perhaps these incidents must purposely go unnoticed, lest people begin to trust government less, & even begin to limit expansion of authority over us.

 

[Reverend Rick]

One has to make that decision for themselves. To me an unlawful and unreasonable intrusive search does not cross the line as life threatening.

If faced with your life in eminent danger, one has to do what is nessessary no matter who presents the threat.

That said, one can only be thankful they are alive and will have a terrible time jusifying it in court.

 

[Father Heathen]

True dat. Victims who successfully defend themselves would likely fare well
with a jury, but the problem is staying alive once more cops get involved.

I don't know, there is a lot of cop/soldier worship in our culture. Much of our society see them as infallible heroes incapable of corruption or misconduct. That's how they get away with so much (which is why the military is such a rapefest, for example).

 

[Revoltingest]

One has to make that decision for themselves. To me an unlawful and unreasonable intrusive search does not cross the line as life threatening.
If faced with your life in eminent danger, one has to do what is nessessary no matter who presents the threat.
That said, one can only be thankful they are alive and will have a terrible time jusifying it in court.

If a citizen is being raped, but doesn't believe it's life threatening, should he/she just politely endure it?
I say no. Deadly force is justified. Or do you say that cops should be held to a different standard?

One thing which could change the climate is if all cops (ie, every single one) who is found to have illegally done a body cavity search served exactly the same sentence in prison as every other ordinary sexual predator. Let'm sit in prison for decades, & be a registered sex offender upon release.

 

[Father Heathen]

One has to make that decision for themselves. To me an unlawful and unreasonable intrusive search does not cross the line as life threatening.

If faced with your life in eminent danger, one has to do what is nessessary no matter who presents the threat.

That said, one can only be thankful they are alive and will have a terrible time jusifying it in court.

Interchange "unreasonable intrusive search" with "rape". Would your stance remain the same? I wouldn't think twice about killing someone who was was attempting to rape, or in the process of raping, another person to bring such a heinous crime to an abrupt halt. Even if it isn't "life threatening", the psychological scars can be severe and life-long.

 

[Reverend Rick]

If I had to choose between being raped or survivng an arrest and prevailing in a trial, it would be a hard decision to make not to mention little time to decide.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

.........Note how Obama weighed in in the Zimmerman-Martin case, yet he's silent about widespread governmental rape of citizens.

President Obama Signs the Violence Against Women Act Reauthorization | The White House

Presidential Memorandum -- Implementing the Prison Rape Elimination Act | The White House

Justice Department Announces Major Step Forward to Combat Rape | The White House

Ending Violence Against Women: 19 Years of Progress | The White House

Men Stand Up to Stop Rape | The White House

Statement by the President on the Passage of the Tribal Law and Order Act | The White House

 

[Revoltingest]

President Obama Signs the Violence Against Women Act Reauthorization | The White House

Presidential Memorandum -- Implementing the Prison Rape Elimination Act | The White House

Justice Department Announces Major Step Forward to Combat Rape | The White House

Ending Violence Against Women: 19 Years of Progress | The White House

Men Stand Up to Stop Rape | The White House

Statement by the President on the Passage of the Tribal Law and Order Act | The White House

That's a nice list.
But he's still silent about this.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

So today I ran across this post...
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3500716-post551.html
That rabble rouser, Jeremy Mason, prompted this thought.

I'll take that as a compliment.

Should citizens use deadly force against cops who rape them?

I concur with the sentiments of self-defense. However, pushing the cop away and telling them that they are not allowed to do that would be my first course of action. After that, the choice is yours. But, trying to killing a cop can and always will be a life threatening event and difficult to win in court without massive amounts of evidence and witnesses.

 

[apophenia]

Wow. I'm stunned. Are the cops sharing these videos for entertainment ? I ask this because in Australia there is an ongoing scandal about servicemen having sex with women (often servicewomen) and transmitting it to their friends, or recording it for distribution. The braindead mongrels involved call themselves 'The Jedi Knights'.

Something I find significant here is that it is women raping women, and probably for the entertainment of male officers( or as a perverse kind of foreplay ? ).

Has anyone successfully taken a case like this to court ?

Why aren't feminists making a huge issue of this ? Is it because the rapists are women ?

Is there a long history of this ? Or is this just one more piece of evidence that western civilisation ( the USA at least) is hitting terminal social breakdown ?

Anyway, in my opinion, I agree with you Revoltingest. Lethal force is justified.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'll take that as a compliment.

Should citizens use deadly force against cops who rape them?

I concur with the sentiments of self-defense. However, pushing the cop away and telling them that they are not allowed to do that would be my first course of action. After that, the choice is yours. But, trying to killing a cop can and always will be a life threatening event and difficult to win in court without massive amounts of evidence and witnesses.

Certainly, there are options.
All of them have their risks.
Deadly force isn't even likely to be an option.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Deadly force? Even slapping them would probably get you on charges and any counterclaim against them dismissed.

 

[Curious George]

Certainly, there are options.
All of them have their risks.
Deadly force isn't even likely to be an option.

Thanks to you and Jeremy for posting.

So, I have been thinking about this. I have several ideas. First, some people are likely to claim that such an instance does not likely require deadly force. But, if a cop orders you to do something and you disobey, and the cop tries to use force and you resist with force, is it reasonable to assume that he/she will match your force. After all, this is a criminal with a gun trying to perpetrate a significant bodily harm upon you. So what is the appropriate reaction.

Next, at what point is one to resist? One of the more humiliating facets of this crime is that one cannot respond until it is too late and the police officer has a significant physical advantage.

Finally, awareness of legal rights becomes an issue. Surely this is illegal, yet body searches (usually no penetration) does occur in places that are deemed legally acceptable. We can not expect that all persons will know when it is okay to resist such action and when they must legally submit. This abuse of power, perpetrated under the color of the law, is thus especially heinous.

There is no simple solution for any victim here. This causes harm in more ways than one. The abuses by officers, police and correctional, represent a vile side to our society.

 

[apophenia]

The abuses by officers, police and correctional, represent a vile side to our society.

And by priests of all religions, and scoutmasters, and teachers, and therapists, and the military... In fact, by every group with power and privelege ( privi lege - 'private law' )

We're a sorry bunch of *** holes.

 

[LuisDantas]

Realistically, attempts at using deadly force against armed officers are very dangerous at the very least. Even if justified and succesfull, the legal consequences are bound to be hell.

So I suppose it would be just a true last resource against actual perceived life peril.

 

[LuisDantas]

And by priests of all religions, and scoutmasters, and teachers, and therapists, and the military... In fact, by every group with power and privelege ( privi lege - 'private law' )

We're a sorry bunch of *** holes.

The more I think about that, the more I feel that privileges should be short-lived and rotate among various people, so that the psychological and ethical damage that result are better acknowledged and faced.

 

[apophenia]

The more I think about that, the more I feel that privileges should be short-lived and rotate among various people, so that the psychological and ethical damage that result are better acknowledged and faced.

I suspect you are right. But the problem is, dominance/subordinance is genetically coded. So the abused still feel that the abusers have a right to abuse ...

 

[Curious George]

The more I think about that, the more I feel that privileges should be short-lived and rotate among various people, so that the psychological and ethical damage that result are better acknowledged and faced.

Well it seems the only other alternatives are:

To set our watchers over authority, but then you need watchers for the watchers ad infinitum.

To accept the bad and try to right those wrongs after the fact.


Indeed, limiting the authority does seem to offer a viable alternative.

But, I am not so sure how a rotating power structure would cure the defect. Some individuals would, during their turn, still act abusively.