Should Europe resist Islam?

[sandandfoam]

I say not.
I think it is an absurd idea.
An idea on a par with 'should Europe resist Hare Krishna's', Mormons, Buddhists or any other religion.
The future I want for Europe is tolerant and inclusive. Diversity is welcome. Islam is the second largest religion in Europe and I look forward to a distinctly European take on Islam developing over the coming years.

 

[England my lionheart]

I say not.
I think it is an absurd idea.
An idea on a par with 'should Europe resist Hare Krishna's', Mormons, Buddhists or any other religion.
The future I want for Europe is tolerant and inclusive. Diversity is welcome. Islam is the second largest religion in Europe and I look forward to a distinctly European take on Islam developing over the coming years.

Whats to resist,personally i think Islam has a tougher time resisting Europe

 

[Cobblestones]

I say not.
I think it is an absurd idea.
An idea on a par with 'should Europe resist Hare Krishna's', Mormons, Buddhists or any other religion.
The future I want for Europe is tolerant and inclusive. Diversity is welcome. Islam is the second largest religion in Europe and I look forward to a distinctly European take on Islam developing over the coming years.

I think people should resist all religions in the same way they resist buying stuff off of the Home Shopping Network. Any religion that is in your face and has as one of its purposes to take over the globe should be resisted.

Anyone who wants a religion should be free to go find it but that is very different from having JW's or Momons or Protestants or Muslims knocking on your door or preaching to people in public places etc.

BTW - Islam is not a tolerant religion. Remember when they ruled Asia Minor? There were civil penalties for those who did not buy into the religion.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Some Europeans probably fear that a large growth of muslim population ,would put an end to their cherished secular values.

Just my thoughts here.

 

[Caladan]

I say not.
I think it is an absurd idea.
An idea on a par with 'should Europe resist Hare Krishna's', Mormons, Buddhists or any other religion.
The future I want for Europe is tolerant and inclusive. Diversity is welcome. Islam is the second largest religion in Europe and I look forward to a distinctly European take on Islam developing over the coming years.

At the end of the day, perhaps resisting any religion is futile. I think studying a religion is much more relevant, but realistically only a handful of people would do so, or can allocate time to that.
I think that Europe needs to play a double game here, accepting the Muslim population, but at the same time resist any foreign religion agenda witch threatens European secularism, secularism which was achieved through blood, hard lessons, and difficult history, that should be studied to the detail.
as for developing European take on Islam, there are many, all over the place, for example posted on Jyllands-Posten, the Dutch film Fitna, and other films, art, and articles which resulted in death threats, burned embassies, and murders.
If Europe (such a grand generalization there) wants to allow Islam to find a place in European social landscape, it should do it out of a place of its secularism, realism, criticism. in many regards, Europe is a bastion of modernity, and scientific and cultural achievements, and if Muslims want to find a second home there, they should adapt themselves and their traditions to the endless maze of European civilization.

 

[sandandfoam]

Whats to resist,personally i think Islam has a tougher time resisting Europe

Sarkozy reckons "

he would not say no to minarets in France but cautioned that in such a secular country religious adherents should “refrain from all ostentation or provocation” of religious practices.

Muslims should recognise France’s Christian tradition, he said, adding that anything that resembled a challenge to this heritage “would condemn to failure the very necessary establishment of Islam in France”.

 

[sandandfoam]

At the end of the day, perhaps resisting any religion is futile. I think studying a religion is much more relevant, but realistically only a handful of people would do so, or can allocate time to that.
I think that Europe needs to play a double game here, accepting the Muslim population, but at the same time resist any foreign religion agenda witch threatens European secularism, secularism which was achieved through blood, hard lessons, and difficult history, that should be studied to the detail.
as for developing European take on Islam, there are many, all over the place, for example posted on Jyllands-Posten, the Dutch film Fitna, and other films, art, and articles which resulted in death threats, burned embassies, and murders.
If Europe (such a grand generalization there) wants to allow Islam to find a place in European social landscape, it should do it out of a place of its secularism, realism, criticism. in many regards, Europe is a bastion of modernity, and scientific and cultural achievements, and if Muslims want to find a second home there, they should adapt themselves and their traditions to the endless maze of European civilization.

Dan, I think the Irish state (as just one example) makes a lie of 'European secularism'. I think European secularism is largely fiction.

 

[Phasmid]

As long as my freedom NOT to practice Islam is maintained and as long as religious law isn't adopted, or a non-secular government elected, then I couldn't care less if Islam spreads.

 

[sandandfoam]

I think people should resist all religions in the same way they resist buying stuff off of the Home Shopping Network. Any religion that is in your face and has as one of its purposes to take over the globe should be resisted.

Anyone who wants a religion should be free to go find it but that is very different from having JW's or Momons or Protestants or Muslims knocking on your door or preaching to people in public places etc.

.

In principle I think your point is fair enough. Even though I don't agree with it - I believe in religious freedom. But for as long as Christianity (for example) is not resisted I don't believe Islam should be either.

 

[sandandfoam]

Some Europeans probably fear that a large growth of muslim population ,would put an end to their cherished secular values.

Just my thoughts here.

Again, as I said to Dan I believe these 'cherished secular values' are a fiction

 

[Caladan]

Dan, I think the Irish state (as just one example) makes a lie of 'European secularism'. I think European secularism is largely fiction.

stephen. I fully understand that Europe has a very heavy baggage of Christian history. just as my nation has some baggage of Jewish history. no nation on earth is clear of religiosity and spirituality, but try to place Europe in front of a Sharia aspiring nation, and you get my point. Europe is liberal in all the places in which Islam is not. clothes, sexuality, struggle to for women and gay rights, etc.

 

[sandandfoam]

As long as my freedom NOT to practice Islam is maintained and as long as religious law isn't adopted, or a non-secular government elected, then I couldn't care less if Islam spreads.

We're on the same page

 

[Metempsychosis]

Again, as I said to Dan I believe these 'cherished secular values' are a fiction

These secular values would be quite evident ,if you/me were to live in country like Saudi Arabia.

 

[Caladan]

Again, as I said to Dan I believe these 'cherished secular values' are a fiction

Im not talking about cherishing anything. im talking about the fact, that many Europeans and European political parties aspire for liberalism and secularism and I'm talking about other modern historical realities such as the French laïcité.

 

[sandandfoam]

stephen. I fully understand that Europe has a very heavy baggage of Christian history. just as my nation has some baggage of Jewish history. no nation on earth is clear of religiosity and spirituality, but try to place Europe in front of a Sharia aspiring nation, and you get my point. Europe is liberal in all the places in which Islam is not. clothes, sexuality, struggle to for women and gay rights, etc.

Isn't the mark of tolerance to tolerate those with whom one disagrees?
The Catholic church holds values which are in opposition to liberality regarding "clothes, sexuality, struggle to for women and gay rights, etc." and we accommodate them fine. Why not Islam?

 

[England my lionheart]

Sarkozy reckons "

I've been to France many times and there are real problems there,i think the main problem being is the Immigrant Muslim population refusal to integrate or adapt to a Secular Country,this is also evident in parts of the UK but hopefully education will win through,thankfully in the UK there are Muslims like the progressive British Muslims who are trying educate other Muslims about Democracy freedom of choice and a more Liberal stance on Islam if that is possible.

 

[sandandfoam]

These secular values would be quite evident ,if you/me were to live in country like Saudi Arabia.

Have a look here for our liberl values. Not.
Fear dictates Ireland's abortion policy | Fionola Meredith | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Is Saudi the standard we wish to emulate? I aspire to an open tolerant and inclusive Europe. Intolerance of any religion is incongruent with that.

 

[sandandfoam]

I've been to France many times and there are real problems there,i think the main problem being is the Immigrant Muslim population refusal to integrate or adapt to a Secular Country,this is also evident in parts of the UK but hopefully education will win through,thankfully in the UK there are Muslims like the progressive British Muslims who are trying educate other Muslims about Democracy freedom of choice and a more Liberal stance on Islam if that is possible.

I argue that the problems in France reflect failed social policy and have little to do with religion

 

[kai]

Isn't the mark of tolerance to tolerate those with whom one disagrees?
The Catholic church holds values which are in opposition to liberality regarding "clothes, sexuality, struggle to for women and gay rights, etc." and we accommodate them fine. Why not Islam?

Isnt the Catholic Church enough?

 

[Smoke]

The future I want for Europe is tolerant and inclusive. Diversity is welcome. Islam is the second largest religion in Europe and I look forward to a distinctly European take on Islam developing over the coming years.

I think Europe should continue the process of freeing its institutions from Christianity, but not just so it can turn around and embrace some other dogmatic and intolerant religion.