Should Europe resist Islam?

[sandandfoam]

Isnt the Catholic Church enough?

LOL.
Too much for me some times. :yes: But they offer proof that even the most misogynistic, medieval of religions can operate successfully in modern Europe.

 

[sandandfoam]

I think Europe should continue the process of freeing its institutions from Christianity, but not just so it can turn around and embrace some other dogmatic and intolerant religion.

With respect, it's not about embracing, it's about tolerating.

 

[Caladan]

Isn't the mark of tolerance to tolerate those with whom one disagrees?
The Catholic church holds values which are in opposition to liberality regarding "clothes, sexuality, struggle to for women and gay rights, etc." and we accommodate them fine. Why not Islam?

By all means accommodate Muslims. but you do not have to accommodate political Islam, or practices which undermine European reality. Muslims should be given freedom of religion in Europe, just like Christians. but just as European Jews never tried to convert Europeans and more than that European Jews have on many occasions blended completely into secular European life, Muslims in Europe should be educated to keep their religion in the frame of the European authorities. Europeans should freely criticize any religious practice which conflicts with modern European reality.
Jews and Christians have had hard lessons in Europe. lessons must be applied in this new reality.

 

[Kerr]

I say not.
I think it is an absurd idea.
An idea on a par with 'should Europe resist Hare Krishna's', Mormons, Buddhists or any other religion.
The future I want for Europe is tolerant and inclusive. Diversity is welcome. Islam is the second largest religion in Europe and I look forward to a distinctly European take on Islam developing over the coming years.

Depends on what you mean. I believe in a seperation between the state and religion, but I do not believe the state should do anything about if people lean towards this or that faith, as long as it does not impair someone elses freedom to believe in something else.

 

[sandandfoam]

By all means accommodate Muslims. but you do not have to accommodate political Islam, or practices which undermine European reality. Muslims should be given freedom of religion in Europe, just like Christians. but just as European Jews never tried to convert Europeans and more than that European Jews have on many occasions blended completely into secular European life, Muslims in Europe should be educated to keep their religion in the frame of the European authorities. Europeans should freely criticize any religious practice which conflicts with modern European reality.
Jews and Christians have had hard lessons in Europe. lessons must be applied in this new reality.

I agree with this.
Islam is welcome in Europe. Fairness says that all religions be treated equally. A level playing field if you will. Spot on.

edit:-
apart from the bit about jews not converting christians. That might have done us all some good

 

[Cobblestones]

As long as my freedom NOT to practice Islam is maintained and as long as religious law isn't adopted, or a non-secular government elected, then I couldn't care less if Islam spreads.

Show me anywhere in the world where the population majority is Islamic where the civil government is not ruled by Islamic law.

 

[Perfect Circle]

With respect, it's not about embracing, it's about tolerating.

True enough. However, there's a huge difference between tolerating the religion of Islam, and tolerating the politics of Islam. I think (as an American) that Europe should continue to stay as secular as possible, and only resist Islam where it seeks to impose it's religious values on others. Beyond that, no, Europe should not resist Islam.

 

[Cobblestones]

I've been to France many times and there are real problems there,i think the main problem being is the Immigrant Muslim population refusal to integrate or adapt to a Secular Country,this is also evident in parts of the UK but hopefully education will win through,thankfully in the UK there are Muslims like the progressive British Muslims who are trying educate other Muslims about Democracy freedom of choice and a more Liberal stance on Islam if that is possible.

I know Muslims in the US who are also democratic and love freedom. None of them, however, are Imams or religious leaders.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Show me anywhere in the world where the population majority is Islamic where the civil government is not ruled by Islamic law.

Like Sharia? Or just Islamic principles within the secular law?

 

[Cobblestones]

Like Sharia? Or just Islamic principles within the secular law?

Just which "Islamic principles" do you have in mind and how would those differ from Hindu or Christian or moral atheist principles, for example?

 

[kai]

i am hesitant to respond, i am not sure about Islam , there are some things about it that strike me as worrying , and i beleive it to be a political entity not just a religion. and what Islam are we talking about? because everything i dont like about it, is not true Islam.or so i am told.

all these things that we are told is tribal or cultural , well Islam hasn't seen them off or no one has told the exponents of these things that "they have nothing to do with Islam"
so i dont know what Islam is! neither do many Muslims it seems.

the jury is still out for me , but anyway how can we resist it? its a thought.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Just which "Islamic principles" do you have in mind and how would those differ from Hindu or Christian Principles, for example?

I don't know... That's what I'm wondering. Because there are several Muslim majority countries that don't have Sharia implemented.

 

[Perfect Circle]

i am hesitant to respond, i am not sure about Islam , there are some things about it that strike me as worrying , and i beleive it to be a political entity not just a religion. and what Islam are we talking about? because everything i dont like about it, is not true Islam.or so i am told.

all these things that we are told is tribal or cultural , well Islam hasn't seen them off or no one has told the exponents of these things that "they have nothing to do with Islam"
so i dont know what Islam is! neither do many Muslims it seems.

the jury is still out for me , but anyway how can we resist it? its a thought.

Very good point about "true Islam".

 

[England my lionheart]

I argue that the problems in France reflect failed social policy and have little to do with religion

I disagree,religion plays a big hand in a lot of the troubles in France where whole neighbourhoods of Muslims are still trying to live the same way they lived in their Country of origin,same here,Muslims have it in their teachings to stay away from non believers,i wonder why and this is where its all gone wrong IMO but as long as religion keeps its dirty paws off of Politics they can worship a rubber glove wrapped in tin foil with a smiley drawn on it for all i care.

 

[YmirGF]

*dons flame resistent forum suit*

I rather expect that the following will be seen as "hate speech" but I beg to differ. I am talking about reality. If you find reality hateful, then there isn't much I can say to you.

I think the main thing is that people have to educate themselves about Islam and learn to separate the myths from the reality. If anyone needs a reason to resist Islam, simply look at life in Muslim majority countries and ask yourself if you really want to live like that.

Islam is perhaps the most intolerant religion ever devised by man and people might want to think twice before they are especially tolerant of a belief system that is highly intolerant of their own. They tolerate us simply because we currently have the upper hand. Muslims would think nothing of subjugating non-believers into second class citizenship or dhimmitude, so why on Earth should we not return the favor?

You are welcome to give away your society, I have no intentions of giving away mine.

 

[England my lionheart]

After seeing what life is like in a Muslim majority Country you would think the immigrants who come to Europe were trying to escape it,not bring it with them.

 

[~Amin~]

Whats to resist,personally i think Islam has a tougher time resisting Europe

I think the west is beautiful, and itll be great if they all CHOSE to be Muslim.

 

[Metempsychosis]

I think the west is beautiful, and itll be great if they all CHOSE to be Muslim.

Let there be no compulsion in religion..:sad:

 

[Phasmid]

Show me anywhere in the world where the population majority is Islamic where the civil government is not ruled by Islamic law.

I did say IF.

Edit: No I didn't, I said, "AS LONG AS" but my point still stands.

 

[Humanistheart]

I say not.
I think it is an absurd idea.
An idea on a par with 'should Europe resist Hare Krishna's', Mormons, Buddhists or any other religion.
The future I want for Europe is tolerant and inclusive. Diversity is welcome. Islam is the second largest religion in Europe and I look forward to a distinctly European take on Islam developing over the coming years.

Dear lord, yes, yes they should. Europes just now progressing to being a very low level religious place, why allow a fast growing religion, particularly a false one, to take root? The last time that happened we got the crusades, the inquisition, a 1000 years of darkness, disease and dispair. etc etc. If you don't learn from history your doomed to repeat it after all.