Should fighting sports be legal? Are they moral?

[Secret Chief]

I used to be afraid of the blood and all that and then realized that there are still plenty of rules to help protect the athletes but injuries in any contact sport is always going to be a factor and in the vast majority everything is really just fine to keep injuries superficial as humanly possible as well as medical personnel at the site in case things do go a little bit more roughly then expected but I think that's part of the nature of contact Sports.

Hell even racing can be included as well.

Intentional behaviour likely to cause injury is integral to boxing. Injuries in other sports are not, when played by the rules, intentional.

 

[Stevicus]

I would also add, just as a side note, that boxing has had a bit of a shady past and a kind of tainted reputation due to its association with unsavory elements. The boxers themselves would often be exploited and treated as disposable commodities. Although they may have tried to clean up their image a bit in that department. Of course, boxing is not unique in that respect, as pro sports (and even college sports) has had a shady past.

 

[☆Dreamwind☆]

I haven't watched wrestling since the late 90s. It's like the newer members became less interesting. Perhaps they've got more interesting personas now? The Undertaker, Hulk Hogan, Ricky Steamboat, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Yukozuna, Jake the Snake, and Ultimate Warrior were way cool. Especially to little me. I was never much for The Iron Shiekh, Sergeant Slaughter, Rick Flair, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, or Super Macho Man. I kinda liked The Hart Brothers.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Intentional behaviour likely to cause injury is integral to boxing. Injuries in other sports are not, when played by the rules, intentional.

Rugby.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I haven't watched wrestling since the late 90s. It's like the newer members became less interesting. Perhaps they've got more interesting "personas" now? Undertaker, Hulk Hogan, Ricky Steamboat, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Yukozuna, Jake the Snake, and Ultimate Warrior were way cool. Especially to little me. I was never much for The Iron Shiekh, Sergeant Slaughter, Rick Flair, or Super Macho Man.

Pro wrestling is athletic drama. It is not a competition. Back in those good old days for almost any match the two performers would work out a routine complete with script: bend over now, get kicked, stumble back recover . . . It was highly choreographed. So much so that a friend of mine watching a news story about an even in Ohio was able to say, "oh yeah, I remember when they had that match in Minneapolis". We all knew that it was fake, but he knew and went anyway. That is why there is no pro-wrestling betting. The winner is known ahead of time.

Those athletes were also probably abused worse than many others. They were in weird realm between sports and theater and were not protected by either of them. Injuries were common and drugs were often used to overcome them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Rugby.

I went to a street fight and a hockey match broke out. It was awful.

 

[Soandso]

If you don't find fighting sports to be moral, I suggest avoiding them

 

[☆Dreamwind☆]

Pro wrestling is athletic drama. It is not a competition. Back in those good old days for almost any match the two performers would work out a routine complete with script: bend over now, get kicked, stumble back recover . . . It was highly choreographed. So much so that a friend of mine watching a news story about an even in Ohio was able to say, "oh yeah, I remember when they had that match in Minneapolis". We all knew that it was fake, but he knew and went anyway. That is why there is no pro-wrestling betting. The winner is known ahead of time.

Those athletes were also probably abused worse than many others. They were in weird realm between sports and theater and were not protected by either of them. Injuries were common and drugs were often used to overcome them.

Trust me I know it's fake, didn't make it any less entertaining. And unfortunately all sports have their unscrupulous sides.

 

[Brickjectivity]

While I'm confident this has been pointed out already, I'm compelled to remind you that people are animals. To think we are somehow above other species with regard to morals and importance is, in my opinion, nothing short of ego driven arrogance.

What about necessity rather than ego?

Morals:
We have guilt, and many animals don't even have that. Another thing animals don't have are written agreements.

Importance:
The animals are important. I won't try to argue they aren't important. Their importance follows from the traits which make them unique but also their connection to morals, their complexity, beauty and grace.

Morality:
Morals have import beyond and above animal traits. They mean something beyond all of us. They are not merely an animal trait.

 

[Secret Chief]

Rugby.

The very example I thought of posting!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I think they’re not moral under any circumstances. Boxers and martial artists unfortunately think that with rules and golden glitter, fights are justified and these fights happen for little reason other than money. It is a cruel and unusual thing with or without consent to hypocritically allow violence of any kind in our society. Violence is for the animals. We are people. Not just as sons of God, but by nature we are supposed to be above the animals, not copying them or doing worse things than those unreasonable creatures.

I do not like such "sports," and won't watch them. That is because I do not like seeing people hurt one another, whether they do so with consent or not. But that is my problem.

The fact is, these are consenting individuals, doing what is not illegal, and therefore I don't consider it immoral, either. The fact that it is not to my taste is on me, nobody else.

 

[Mr. Muto]

@TagliatelliMonster Alright. Now I see your point in that you think the Creator of this world is pro-slavery. Not so. This was only with the Israelites, God did this to punish the pagan peoples, who

A. Sacrificed their children to statues
B. Had slavery long before the Israelites were there.
C. Had great amounts of sexual immorality of all kinds and hated God and did not want to repent.

So these pagans deserved God’s just judgement because they refused to repent. He used the Israelites in the Mosaic covenant to punish these people.

He never explicitly said, “Slavery is ok,” this was for the Israelites with the pagan people as punishment on those wicked people. The Old Covenant.

But according to the Bible, when Jesus was born and died and rose again, a New Covenant was made, and the old law was made null for the Gentiles and the Jews to have fellowship with God. As for the Jews, the Israeli nation was already established. Their order was complete, and now war with any other nation would be totally unjustified.

Now, in terms of morality NOT being black and white according to you.

I saw these examples and I agree with them.

But, before we wrap up this whole thing with fighting sports, I’m going to tell you a little story.

There was an island, with a big white rock, named the Rock of Virtue. In my beliefs this is Jesus Christ, and His Word. It had a large set of rules that the people that lived on the island lived by. No one dared to challenge the rules written on the Rock of Virtue. But then some new people came to live on the island, and they didn’t care about the Rock of Virtue. It denied them certain pleasures and curbed their arrogance. These strangers begged the natives to change the Rock of Virtue. They used deceitful words like, “Not everyone believes in that,” or “We have rights.” What these strangers didn’t know is that a right is a right ONLY if the Rock of Virtue supports it, and that is ethics. But then the natives finally gave way after years of complaints from the strangers. And then the strangers built up a black rock smaller than the first, with only some rules written. Then they broke down the white Rock of Virtue and replaced it with this weaker one.

It all went downhill from there.

More and more people went onto the island and slowly but surely, with beliefs and values against the moral absolutes of ethics, denying them, lying about them and putting up false laws, soon it was chaos and mayhem on the island. Because they added color to the white of ethics, and destroyed and defaced the moral absolutes, because people could not agree on anything and they were chaotic beings, society fell to crap.

The End

 

[Mr. Muto]

@9-10ths_Penguin And also, if you think my religion is immoral, it’s been terribly misrepresented. And I’m not trying to force you to do my beliefs. Guiding and forcing aren’t the same.

 

[Mr. Muto]

I wonder why all of you work so hard to advocate for violence in the ring.

 

[Mr. Muto]

Violence of any kind is inherently wrong. And don’t you dare try to make gray area with imaginary scenarios.

 

[Subduction Zone]

@TagliatelliMonster Alright. Now I see your point in that you think the Creator of this world is pro-slavery. Not so. This was only with the Israelites, God did this to punish the pagan peoples, who

A. Sacrificed their children to statues

That may have been the early Hebrews. You are treating the Bible as if it were factual when it is almost certainly not factual.

B. Had slavery long before the Israelites were there.

So what? Why couldn't God make slavery illegal and support Israel when they followed that law?

C. Had great amounts of sexual immorality of all kinds and hated God and did not want to repent.

Again, you would need more evidence than just the Bible when you claim that about other peoples.

So these pagans deserved God’s just judgement because they refused to repent. He used the Israelites in the Mosaic covenant to punish these people.

The individuals are usually victims of the government, even back then. How were the people guilty? It appears that you are saying that God cannot tell the guilty from the innocent. Well I guess that is fair because he could not do so in other myths of the Bible.

He never explicitly said, “Slavery is ok,” this was for the Israelites with the pagan people as punishment on those wicked people. The Old Covenant.

If I told you where the prostitutes were in town, how much you would have to pay, what services you could expect, and even how to trick your next door neighbor into being a prostitute wouldn't I be advocating for prostitution? Or do you just call that passing on useful information.

By the way for a good time call 867-5309.

But according to the Bible, when Jesus was born and died and rose again, a New Covenant was made, and the old law was made null for the Gentiles and the Jews to have fellowship with God. As for the Jews, the Israeli nation was already established. Their order was complete, and now war with any other nation would be totally unjustified.

That appears to be a reinterpretation after the fact. Jesus certainly did not agree to that.

Now, in terms of morality NOT being black and white according to you.

I saw these examples and I agree with them.

But, before we wrap up this whole thing with fighting sports, I’m going to tell you a little story.

There was an island, with a big white rock, named the Rock of Virtue. In my beliefs this is Jesus Christ, and His Word. It had a large set of rules that the people that lived on the island lived by. No one dared to challenge the rules written on the Rock of Virtue. But then some new people came to live on the island, and they didn’t care about the Rock of Virtue. It denied them certain pleasures and curbed their arrogance. These strangers begged the natives to change the Rock of Virtue. They used deceitful words like, “Not everyone believes in that,” or “We have rights.” What these strangers didn’t know is that a right is a right ONLY if the Rock of Virtue supports it, and that is ethics. But then the natives finally gave way after years of complaints from the strangers. And then the strangers built up a black rock smaller than the first, with only some rules written. Then they broke down the white Rock of Virtue and replaced it with this weaker one.

It all went downhill from there.

More and more people went onto the island and slowly but surely, with beliefs and values against the moral absolutes of ethics, denying them, lying about them and putting up false laws, soon it was chaos and mayhem on the island. Because they added color to the white of ethics, and destroyed and defaced the moral absolutes, because people could not agree on anything and they were chaotic beings, society fell to crap.

The End

How does a silly made up story help you?

 

[Mr. Muto]

@ChristineM The Bible says he destroyed the black market in the church. Jesus never hurt anyone.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I wonder why all of you work so hard to advocate for violence in the ring.

Limiting the freedoms of others is a "sin".

 

[Mr. Muto]

Not all freedoms are ethically justified. A right is a right ONLY if it is justified.

 

[Mr. Muto]

@Subduction Zone Don’t call the Bible not factual when there is evidence suggesting otherwise.