Should God be judged?

[Greatest I am]

You are misconstruing the choice. God, as creator knows what is in our best interest. He has told us what is in our best interest. If we fail to choose what is in our best interest there is a natural consequence, death. (the consequence set out in the Bible from the outset was death, it still is. Gen.2:16, Romans 5:12, 6:23)

It would be as though a parent tells a child not to put a fork in an electrical outlet or refrain from eating something poisoness, since it could mean his death. Is it restrictive and unkind to set such limits? Does it limit his free will? The limit is set for his bennefit, however if, using his free will he chooses not to adhere to the limits, he will suffer the consequence.

If sin has it's own consequence then god need not impose more.

Has God given up the right to punish through free will? If so, there is no hell.
It is said that God gave man free will.
This to me, means that God gave man dominion over himself and over the earth. Without any restrictions or coercion from Him.
The idea then that He would mean that we must do as He says or go to hell cannot be a true concept.
If we as parents give or allow our children to have freedom when they leave our homes, then that means that we give up any right or responsibility to punish them.
To keep things simple, let us say that the rules of my home includes making the bed.
I notice when visiting them in their home that they have chosen not to make their beds.
I then would be out of line to reprimand or punish them for not making their beds. They are free to do so or not if they have free will.
This seems right. It is no longer my place as a father to punish them. They are free and have dominion over themselves.
God then should not and would not hold a hell over our heads to demand compliance to His rules.
Is free will with consequences from God, hell for non compliance, free will at all?
Is being free to only follow His rules free will?
Has God given up the right to punish free men?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

What good can come out of judging God?

How else would you know if you follow the right one?

How did you decide that you were in the right religion?

How did you decide that your God was good without making a judgment?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Likewise using your annalogy of a parent taking a child to the hospital. Imediately upon our figurative child electricuting himself, God took immediate action to provide a means of resuscitation, a means of bringing back to life those who have died, hence the ransom and ressurection.

Resurrection? Do you really believe in this concept?

After all, it comes from a book that begins with a talking snake and ends with a seven headed monster. Do you really believe in all these imaginary concepts?

Really believe?

Regards
DL

 

[curious-er]

No, the analogy doesn't hold up here.

You don't ask an injured child whether he believes in hospitals, and whether hospitals are good, and whether the child has taken hospitals into his heart. You just make the decision and take the child to the &!@$(@# hospital with no question, because you love them and want them to live.

God doesn't resurrect only those who have accepted him.

Acts 24:15 "and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."

Romans 6:7 "For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin."

However you are correct, the annalogy does not hold up entirely, there being a difference in one who has created a being, and one who is merely a parent.

 

[curious-er]

If sin has it's own consequence then god need not impose more.

Has God given up the right to punish through free will? If so, there is no hell.
It is said that God gave man free will.

As I have stated in a previous response to you, death is the consequnce. The bible does not teach otherwise. There is no hell.

This to me, means that God gave man dominion over himself and over the earth. Without any restrictions or coercion from Him.

Both man and the earth belong to God. He has the right to set the rules. What we have seen over the past centuries and millenia is what happens when man has dominion over both. God has allowed mankind to govern himself, he will continue to do so until such a time as our self extermination is eminant.

Mark 13:20 "In fact, unless Jehovah had cut short the days, no flesh would be saved. But on account of the chosen ones whom he has chosen he has cut short the days."

The idea then that He would mean that we must do as He says or go to hell cannot be a true concept.

You are right, this is not a true concept. The choice has always been life or death.
(Genesis 2:16,17; Romans 6:7,23)

If we as parents give or allow our children to have freedom when they leave our homes, then that means that we give up any right or responsibility to punish them.

As soon as you have figured out how to leave earth and the physical universe, for that matter, let me know. That is the only way we can "leave home". They all belong to God. He therefore has the right to set the "house" rules. Rules that bennefit not only ourselves, but everyone and everything around us.

God then should not and would not hold a hell over our heads to demand compliance to His rules.
Is free will with consequences from God, hell for non compliance, free will at all?
Is being free to only follow His rules free will?
Has God given up the right to punish free men?

Again, the consequence of sin is death, not hell. Since we still live in his "house" we still have "house rules".

A car manufacturer sets certain rules as to what is and is not appropriate for their car. What type of oil, transmission fluid, antifreeze, etc. Now you can ignore the guidlines, put transmission fluid where the oil should go, put oil in the radiator, etc. But your car is not likely to run for very long. Do you hold the manufacturer accountable for your badly running or dead car?

Mankind has ruined his way on the earth, and is currently ruining the earth. God has set a time to reverse all the harm mankind has done. However, being our manufacturer, he still has the right to set guidlines and rules to help us run smoothly and have a good long life, everlasting life.... But you would judge God to be in the wrong?

P.S. regarding your other post to me, Yes I do believe that silly book with the snake and the seven headed beast.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Greatest I am,

Should God be judged?
Should God be judged?

Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.
I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.
To not do so would mean that I just accept all that is said and this of course would foul up any chance of knowing what is true or false. After all there is much in the way of contradictory information out there.

Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

Regards
DL
__________________
God is a universal consciousness.
Telepathy the key.

You talk about God and finally your signature states that God is universal consciousness.
When there is nothing as god but universal consciousness then where is the question of judging *consciousness*?

Love & rgds

 

[McBell]

Friend Greatest I am,



You talk about God and finally your signature states that God is universal consciousness.
When there is nothing as god but universal consciousness then where is the question of judging *consciousness*?

Love & rgds

A consciousness that never makes decisions?
What an interesting concept.

 

[DarkSun]

Yes but only by a jury of his peers.

So the Father should be judged by the Son and the Holy Spirit?

 

[Greatest I am]

God doesn't resurrect only those who have accepted him.

Acts 24:15 "and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."

Romans 6:7 "For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin."

However you are correct, the annalogy does not hold up entirely, there being a difference in one who has created a being, and one who is merely a parent.

There is no evidence or proof that God created anything, but that aside, do you read Romans 6-7 as saying that sinners will all be acquitted of their sins or crimes?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

As I have stated in a previous response to you, death is the consequnce. The bible does not teach otherwise. There is no hell.



Both man and the earth belong to God. He has the right to set the rules. What we have seen over the past centuries and millenia is what happens when man has dominion over both. God has allowed mankind to govern himself, he will continue to do so until such a time as our self extermination is eminant.

Mark 13:20 "In fact, unless Jehovah had cut short the days, no flesh would be saved. But on account of the chosen ones whom he has chosen he has cut short the days."




You are right, this is not a true concept. The choice has always been life or death.
(Genesis 2:16,17; Romans 6:7,23)



As soon as you have figured out how to leave earth and the physical universe, for that matter, let me know. That is the only way we can "leave home". They all belong to God. He therefore has the right to set the "house" rules. Rules that bennefit not only ourselves, but everyone and everything around us.



Again, the consequence of sin is death, not hell. Since we still live in his "house" we still have "house rules".

A car manufacturer sets certain rules as to what is and is not appropriate for their car. What type of oil, transmission fluid, antifreeze, etc. Now you can ignore the guidlines, put transmission fluid where the oil should go, put oil in the radiator, etc. But your car is not likely to run for very long. Do you hold the manufacturer accountable for your badly running or dead car?

Mankind has ruined his way on the earth, and is currently ruining the earth. God has set a time to reverse all the harm mankind has done. However, being our manufacturer, he still has the right to set guidlines and rules to help us run smoothly and have a good long life, everlasting life.... But you would judge God to be in the wrong?

P.S. regarding your other post to me, Yes I do believe that silly book with the snake and the seven headed beast.

That explains a lot.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Friend Greatest I am,



You talk about God and finally your signature states that God is universal consciousness.
When there is nothing as god but universal consciousness then where is the question of judging *consciousness*?

Love & rgds

Does God have a consciousness and philosophy? Yes.
Can it be judged? Yes.

When I read the various Bibles, Christian and others, I chose which God seemed to have the best philosophy. I compared.

I am curious as to how the various Christian sects developed and what drew their adherents and if they compared their version to the others or if they just follow because daddy did.

Why not Allah or Buda or on and on?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

A consciousness that never makes decisions?
What an interesting concept.

Beats hand down a God that uses genocide against man and kills him in countless other places in scripture.

Follow that miracle working super God if you like but remember that he has been on a rather long holiday and has left as much evidence of his miracle working ability as mine. Just because I do not believe in that one does not mean that I cannot speculate on his heinous acts as depicted in scripture.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

So the Father should be judged by the Son and the Holy Spirit?

Talking snakes and seven headed monsters would only be thought up by a three headed God.:yes:

Regards
DL

 

[opuntia]

We are to use our best judgment when confronting people and things in life. What we are warned to be careful about in judging is judging wrongfully or harshly. Many a race or person has been abused because some thought to judge them or him or her harshly and certainly wrongfully.

 

[McBell]

We are to use our best judgment when confronting people and things in life. What we are warned to be careful about in judging is judging wrongfully or harshly. Many a race or person has been abused because some thought to judge them or him or her harshly and certainly wrongfully.

Where might one find this warning?

 

[Enoch07]

Free will with a heavy price does not compute.
You have a strange view of what free will is.

Free will should mean no conditions. if you have conditions then it is conditional free will and that is a misuse of language.

That would be like telling my sons that they can go out and are free stay out all night but if they do I will beat them in the morning.
Think about it.

Regards
DL

Your leaving out the benefits though. God gives benefits for following His law.

Father tells his sons that they can go out and are free to stay out all night if they want, but if they get back home before midnight they can stay out again the next night. If they stay out later than midnight then they cant go out again the next night. Its give and take you are only focusing in on the negatives.

 

[McBell]

Free will with a heavy price does not compute.
You have a strange view of what free will is.

Free will should mean no conditions. if you have conditions then it is conditional free will and that is a misuse of language.

That would be like telling my sons that they can go out and are free stay out all night but if they do I will beat them in the morning.
Think about it.

Regards
DL

Since when did 'freewill' mean "no consequences"?

 

[McBell]

Your leaving out the benefits though. God gives benefits for following His law.

Father tells his sons that they can go out and are free to stay out all night if they want, but if they get back home before midnight they can stay out again the next night. If they stay out later than midnight then they cant go out again the next night. Its give and take you are only focusing in on the negatives.

So if one provides enough "benefits" then the negativity of the thing is negated?

Is that how the whole slavery thing worked?

 

[Falvlun]

Since when did 'freewill' mean "no consequences"?

I replied to this misconception (of the argument) in another thread, but I think my reply went unnoticed. I'll repost here:

Perhaps we are getting hung up on the term "consequences". I agree with you: free-will does not mean you are free from the consequences of your actions.

The difference is that "hell" is not simply a consequence of our actions. It is a tool used to scare people into making a specific choice.

If you are coerced to do something, you do not do it of your own free-will. If a woman "lets" a man rape her, because he has a gun and says he will shoot her if she doesn't let him, has the woman truly consented to rape? Did she choose to be raped?

It is from the thread HERE, if you'd prefer to discuss it back in that thread.

 

[McBell]

I replied to this misconception (of the argument) in another thread, but I think my reply went unnoticed. I'll repost here:



It is from the thread HERE, if you'd prefer to discuss it back in that thread.

There is a big difference between 'free will' and 'ultimatum'.