Should God Not Send Everyone to Hell?

[Sha'irullah]

The most major complaint with religions that believe in hell is that they give the adherents a get-out-of-jail-free card that permits them to escape God's judgement. The minute you accept the religion you get your meal ticket to eternal paradise although the other are not as lucky. Those that see through the fallacies of this process realize that this is far from fair and just. What is even more humorous is that many such religions claim to promote equality and justice yet have the most lopsided view of morality. As it is already known that religions lead to the lack of moral stability when applied in ethics so expecting morality in the god that promotes the lack thereof by offering absolutes is of no surprise.

A murderer, rapist or a thief can escape god's wrath by merely converting. Even if it is the religion of Islam where Muslims may be punished(temporarily) for transgressions they still receive the paradise of hedonism.

Would it not be fair for a true god of justice to punish ALL individuals stepping into the domain of Life After Death? Should not all individuals receive the torments of hell for their allotted time?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The most major complaint with religions that believe in hell is that they give the adherents a get-out-of-jail-free card that permits them to escape God's judgement. The minute you accept the religion you get your meal ticket to eternal paradise although the other are not as lucky. Those that see through the fallacies of this process realize that this is far from fair and just. What is even more humorous is that many such religions claim to promote equality and justice yet have the most lopsided view of morality. As it is already known that religions lead to the lack of moral stability when applied in ethics so expecting morality in the god that promotes the lack thereof by offering absolutes is of no surprise.

A murderer, rapist or a thief can escape god's wrath by merely converting. Even if it is the religion of Islam where Muslims may be punished(temporarily) for transgressions they still receive the paradise of hedonism.

Would it not be fair for a true god of justice to punish ALL individuals stepping into the domain of Life After Death? Should not all individuals receive the torments of hell for their allotted time?

What even is the actual justification in heaven and hell? Why not let the majority of people decide who gets to go where

 

[Sha'irullah]

What even is the actual justification in heaven and hell?

Moral necessity

Why not let the majority of people decide who gets to go where

Utilitarianism for the win I guess

 

[Parsimony]

My church teaches two things relevant to this:

*Christians are punished for their sins while they are on Earth.
*You can't get saved whenever you feel like it. God has to draw you with the Holy Spirit first. Waiting until you are on a deathbed before conversion therefore is not a viable strategy for salvation.

 

[Sha'irullah]

My church teaches two things relevant to this:

*Christians are punished for their sins while they are on Earth.

Little unfair and also untrue considering the amount of evidence need to substantiate for this.

*You can't get saved whenever you feel like it. God has to draw you with the Holy Spirit first. Waiting until you are on a deathbed before conversion therefore is not a viable strategy for salvation.

So you are saying your god chooses whether or not he wishes to let a person into his paradise?
He also decides who becomes Christian and who does not

 

[Parsimony]

Little unfair and also untrue considering the amount of evidence need to substantiate for this.

So you are saying your god chooses whether or not he wishes to let a person into his paradise?
He also decides who becomes Christian and who does not

Well, that's my church's stance at least.

My own interpretation of it is that God will draw anyone to Him with the Holy Spirit if they have a truly repentant heart. Anyone with a repentant heart will therefore have a chance to be saved. If someone is coming to God but they are not sorry for the wrong that they've done and do not intend on changing their ways, then God has no to reason to give them salvation. If anything, I figured it was a pretty good strategy for preventing "abuse" of salvation.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Well, that's my church's stance at least.

My own interpretation of it is that God will draw anyone to Him with the Holy Spirit if they have a truly repentant heart. Anyone with a repentant heart will therefore have a chance to be saved. If someone is coming to God but they are not sorry for the wrong that they've done and do not intend on changing their ways, then God has no to reason to give them salvation. If anything, I figured it was a pretty good strategy for preventing "abuse" of salvation.

Do you believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent by any chance?

 

[Sees]

It would make most sense, if such a god and such a hell were real, that only the truly nasty, sadistic, cruel, etc. went to hell - regardless of their religious, cultural, spiritual, philosophical, psychological, yada yada beliefs and claims.

Everyone to be punished is not much more sane than the traditional version where it's only those who got the religious quiz-show's answers wrong.

 

[Parsimony]

Do you believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent by any chance?

Yes, in some sense. I don't think He can change logic at will or change His own nature. When it comes to Hell itself, I don't know what I believe about it. I know the "mainstream" view is that it is eternal torment, but then I have reasons to doubt that. There are verses which insinuate annihilationism, and then you have pretty much no mention of the modern conception of Hell at all on the Old Testament.

I actually think one of the Jewish interpretations made some sense: you go to Hell (Gehinom) for a period of time in proportion to your deeds.

 

[Knight of Albion]

'God is love and love is of God'.

God does not punish, nor even it could be said, reward.

All is governed by Universal Law. The Law of Cause and Effect. You create your own destiny by your actions, for good or ill.

One has to stand back and see the bigger picture. All is working for good.

 

[metis]

I visited hell once, but there were so many there that I couldn't find you folks.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Moral necessity

How is that a justification? Isn't this just another term for wishful thinking?

 

[Astravalon]

The most major complaint with religions that believe in hell is that they give the adherents a get-out-of-jail-free card that permits them to escape God's judgement. The minute you accept the religion you get your meal ticket to eternal paradise although the other are not as lucky. Those that see through the fallacies of this process realize that this is far from fair and just. What is even more humorous is that many such religions claim to promote equality and justice yet have the most lopsided view of morality. As it is already known that religions lead to the lack of moral stability when applied in ethics so expecting morality in the god that promotes the lack thereof by offering absolutes is of no surprise.

A murderer, rapist or a thief can escape god's wrath by merely converting. Even if it is the religion of Islam where Muslims may be punished(temporarily) for transgressions they still receive the paradise of hedonism.

Would it not be fair for a true god of justice to punish ALL individuals stepping into the domain of Life After Death? Should not all individuals receive the torments of hell for their allotted time?

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Eh … I don't know. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The thing that stops me from accepting any sort of post-mortem hell is[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]that, since I believe God is omnipotent and omniscient, anything that[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]might offend Him in this world would've ultimately been His own doing[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]since He would've designed things as they are. The whole 'with-power-[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]comes-responsibility' thing kicks in, there, and if we're talking about[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]*all*-powerful, then one would therefore be *all*-responsible. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]There's also the fact that I also see God as Love. If I didn't, I could[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]probably more easily incorporate some of the less humane aspects, such[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]as endless torment in hell. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Ugh … who knows... [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]

-
[/FONT]

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This is hell. The mind is its own place, after all. So, in a way, God already did send us all to hell by shoving us into physical bodies and being born into this world.

 

[Objective Qualia]

Would it not be fair for a true god of justice to punish ALL individuals stepping into the domain of Life After Death? Should not all individuals receive the torments of hell for their allotted time?

It depends on the standards of the deity and how effectively it communicates those standards. If the standards are outlandish or so poorly communicated that very few understand them then it wouldn't be fair or just.

 

[Sha'irullah]

How is that a justification? Isn't this just another term for wishful thinking?

My statement is partially hypothetical and makes presuppositionalist claims so I am not exactly espousing a viewpoint I hold. I am only speaking of moral necessity in a given world not our own.

 

[Sha'irullah]

It depends on the standards of the deity and how effectively it communicates those standards. If the standards are outlandish or so poorly communicated that very few understand them then it wouldn't be fair or just.

I am proposing that by default nothing else is capable of living to the standards of god, that is if the god is of the O3(Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omniscient) type. Anything not god is destined to be in hell. Hell is defined as the state of being in separation from god. Anything not associated as god is immediately imperfect and not qualified for any union with god so all imperfections are natural or relative to existence while god is perfect and nonexistent(in the metaphysical sense).

 

[Sha'irullah]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Eh … I don't know. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The thing that stops me from accepting any sort of post-mortem hell is[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]that, since I believe God is omnipotent and omniscient, anything that[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]might offend Him in this world would've ultimately been His own doing[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]since He would've designed things as they are. The whole 'with-power-[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]comes-responsibility' thing kicks in, there, and if we're talking about[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]*all*-powerful, then one would therefore be *all*-responsible. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]There's also the fact that I also see God as Love. If I didn't, I could[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]probably more easily incorporate some of the less humane aspects, such[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]as endless torment in hell. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Ugh … who knows... [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]

-
[/FONT]

Me and you differ on this then because you associate with god the things that you want which is love. I do not associate the things I want I just associate everything with god entirely. Love, hate, good or evil they are all associated with god unless you make a duality in the demiurge.

 

[McBell]

God does not punish, nor even it could be said, reward

Then who does the judging mentioned in Matthew 7:1-3?

 

[Sha'irullah]

This is hell. The mind is its own place, after all. So, in a way, God already did send us all to hell by shoving us into physical bodies and being born into this world.

If you are saying that natural existence is our stay in hell then me and you agree on the basics