Should God Not Send Everyone to Hell?

[ZooGirl02]

Well, not all Christians believe that once you become a member of their sect that you get a "get out of jail free" card.

I know that Catholics believe that when you are baptized, it washes away all of your sins, both original sin and actual sin and so if you were to die before committing any mortal sins, you would definitely go to Heaven when you died. That is what Catholics believe.

However, I also know that Catholics believe once you have been baptized you must stay a practicing Catholic and you must stay out of a state of mortal sin in order to get to Heaven when you die. If you do commit a mortal sin then you must go to Confession as soon as possible. It is also recommended to make an Act of Perfect Contrition so that way God will forgive you before you go to Confession. However, even when you make an Act of Perfect Contrition you still must go to Confession according to Catholic beliefs.

So in other words, Catholics do not believe in a system in which once you are baptized you have a get out of jail free card and will go to Heaven no matter what. Catholics believe that you must be a practicing Catholic which involves living a moral life after you have repented of your sins prior to being baptized (as an adult since an infant is unable to repent). So to sum it up, Catholics believe that you trade your old sinful life for a new life in which you are a new person in Christ and you try your best not to sin and when you do, you pick yourself up and try again. And finally, Catholics believe that God will reward you for making this trade off so long as you persevere to the very end which means dying in a state of grace. That is what Catholics believe.

 

[Virus]

'God is love and love is of God'.

God does not punish, nor even it could be said, reward.

All is governed by Universal Law. The Law of Cause and Effect. You create your own destiny by your actions, for good or ill.

One has to stand back and see the bigger picture. All is working for good.

rubbish, so what does he do? yes ultimately your actions will lead to god punishing you, but he does punish and reward

 

[Knight of Albion]

rubbish, so what does he do? yes ultimately your actions will lead to god punishing you, but he does punish and reward

The Universe has two key eternal and intransmutable Laws - the Law of Cause and Effect and the Law of Love.

The Law of Cause and Effect, a.k.a. Karma, is an entirely self-regulating law.
All that you send out will come back to you, if not in this life then in another.
Can a man sow thistles and harvest roses? No!
We reap what we sow. No more and no less - and why should it be any different?

Your Destiny is in your own hands.

The toxic legacy of Orthodoxy! The ignorant misrepresentation of the Divine as a malicious, vindictive, bloodthirsty monster.

God is love and love is of God. Love is the fulfilling of the Law. If you understand that, no explanation is necessary.

 

[Sha'irullah]

The Universe has two key eternal and intransmutable Laws - the Law of Cause and Effect and the Law of Love.

The Law of Cause and Effect, a.k.a. Karma, is an entirely self-regulating law.
All that you send out will come back to you, if not in this life then in another.
Can a man sow thistles and harvest roses? No!
We reap what we sow. No more and no less - and why should it be any different?

Your Destiny is in your own hands.

The toxic legacy of Orthodoxy! The ignorant misrepresentation of the Divine as a malicious, vindictive, bloodthirsty monster.

God is love and love is of God. Love is the fulfilling of the Law. If you understand that, no explanation is necessary.

Please provide the objective basis that god is love. Please explain to me who created hate and remember that love only exist as a result of the physical nature of our brains and is entirely reliant upon our consciousness.

 

[dominik]

Please provide the objective basis that god is love. Please explain to me who created hate and remember that love only exist as a result of the physical nature of our brains and is entirely reliant upon our consciousness.

God created as, i.e. life is love so we were created out of love and so is God complete love. Under the assumption that hate is the diametrical opposite of love; to answer this question we can ask the other question: who created darkness? The answer is no one. Darkness is simply the absence of light. As is hate the absence of love.

 

[Gehennaite]

Would it not be fair for a true god of justice to punish ALL individuals stepping into the domain of Life After Death? Should not all individuals receive the torments of hell for their allotted time?

*staff edit*

What kind of a God would invent a hell in the first place? Who would think to subject humans to even more visceral and psychological pain than we've already experienced? That is not even malevolence, that is pure sadism. A benevolent God would be lamenting day & night over the degeneracy of humankind and be resorting to altruistic methods to improve life after death.

Humans have had their fair share of suffering. A God worthy of respect would be benevolent, offering counseling and condolence to us wayward creatures. It was God that designed the universe, not us. If I had designed the universe, I sure as hell would not have allowed human physiology & neurobiology to be so grossly degenerate.

While I do believe in personal accountability in not causing pain to others, the real person to blame for the consequences of nature (disease, neurological disorders, birth defects, aging, death) is God, not humans.

 

[Astravalon]

Humans have had their fair share of suffering.

Agreed. This reminds me of the following quote:

"Given headaches, backaches, toothaches, strains, scrapes, breaks,
cuts, rashes, burns, bruises, PMS, fatigue, hunger, odors, molds, colds, yeast,
parasites, viruses, cancers, genetic defects, blindness, deafness, paralysis,
mental illness, ugliness, ignorance, miscommunications, embarrassments,
unrequited love, dashed hopes, boredom, hard labor, repetitious labor,
accidents, old age, senility, fires, floods, earthquakes, typhoons, tornadoes,
hurricanes and volcanoes, I can not see how anyone, after they are dead,
deserves 'eternal punishment' as well." ~ Ed Babinski

​

-

 

[Glaurung]

The most major complaint with religions that believe in hell is that they give the adherents a get-out-of-jail-free card that permits them to escape God's judgement. The minute you accept the religion you get your meal ticket to eternal paradise although the other are not as lucky.

'Religions that believe in hell' is rather too board a category to say anything definitive about.

Nonetheless in the theological tradition I grew up under, simply being a baptised christian is by no means a guarantee of salvation.

Those that see through the fallacies of this process realize that this is far from fair and just.

I'd agree. If it were an accurate description such beliefs. But I can't speak for all traditions and doctrines that posit a hell.

A murderer, rapist or a thief can escape god's wrath by merely converting

Well, at least in Christianity; there's also the usual requirement of genuine contrition accompanying said conversion and a sincere commitment to make amends and to live a moral life according to Christ's teachings. I think God would see through someone just hedging their bets.

Would it not be fair for a true god of justice to punish ALL individuals stepping into the domain of Life After Death? Should not all individuals receive the torments of hell for their allotted time?

God is usually understood as supremely merciful as well as just. The only sin that cannot be forgiven is a conscious and total refusal of his mercy. This is also known as blaspheming the Holy Spirit

 

[Desert Snake]

The most major complaint with religions that believe in hell is that they give the adherents a get-out-of-jail-free card that permits them to escape God's judgement. The minute you accept the religion you get your meal ticket to eternal paradise although the other are not as lucky. Those that see through the fallacies of this process realize that this is far from fair and just. What is even more humorous is that many such religions claim to promote equality and justice yet have the most lopsided view of morality. As it is already known that religions lead to the lack of moral stability when applied in ethics so expecting morality in the god that promotes the lack thereof by offering absolutes is of no surprise.

I don't know what Bible you're reading, but none of that 'free ticket to heaven' jazz is in anything I've ever read. In fact, one could say the general standard for the OT/NT is actually pretty high.
Perhaps.....some people try to 'sell' a ticket to heaven through baptism parties or the like, but that isn't scriptural.
On the other hand, is it fair to go to hell because of our corrupt
nature? This is pretty much the problem of original sin in a nutshell.

 

[Knight of Albion]

The most major complaint with religions that believe in hell is that they give the adherents a get-out-of-jail-free card that permits them to escape God's judgement. The minute you accept the religion you get your meal ticket to eternal paradise although the other are not as lucky. Those that see through the fallacies of this process realize that this is far from fair and just. What is even more humorous is that many such religions claim to promote equality and justice yet have the most lopsided view of morality. As it is already known that religions lead to the lack of moral stability when applied in ethics so expecting morality in the god that promotes the lack thereof by offering absolutes is of no surprise.

A murderer, rapist or a thief can escape god's wrath by merely converting. Even if it is the religion of Islam where Muslims may be punished(temporarily) for transgressions they still receive the paradise of hedonism.

Would it not be fair for a true god of justice to punish ALL individuals stepping into the domain of Life After Death? Should not all individuals receive the torments of hell for their allotted time?

'Should God ...' Probably He should. But where there is Love, there is forgiveness.

But that is Love under Law. i.e. freewill with Cause and Effect.
An entirely self-regulating law.

 

[Sabour]

The most major complaint with religions that believe in hell is that they give the adherents a get-out-of-jail-free card that permits them to escape God's judgement. The minute you accept the religion you get your meal ticket to eternal paradise although the other are not as lucky. Those that see through the fallacies of this process realize that this is far from fair and just. What is even more humorous is that many such religions claim to promote equality and justice yet have the most lopsided view of morality. As it is already known that religions lead to the lack of moral stability when applied in ethics so expecting morality in the god that promotes the lack thereof by offering absolutes is of no surprise.

A murderer, rapist or a thief can escape god's wrath by merely converting. Even if it is the religion of Islam where Muslims may be punished(temporarily) for transgressions they still receive the paradise of hedonism.

Would it not be fair for a true god of justice to punish ALL individuals stepping into the domain of Life After Death? Should not all individuals receive the torments of hell for their allotted time?

I just wanted to reply on this as a Muslim.

Islam is a "din". "din" is an Arabic word which means a system of life.

Islam in Arabic means five things, all at once. These five things are Surrender, Submission, obedience ,sincerity And Peace.

So Islam is system of life. It is not just a label.

Being labelled a "muslim" doesn't give you a free ticket to paradise because every person will be accountable for everything he does.

Quraan makes it very clear. If you look at it you will always see the two concepts coming together. These two concepts are "those who believe and do good deeds".

Here is an example,

2:25 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally.

This concept is repeated everywhere in the Quraan. It is the "belief" and "doing righteous deeds" together side by side that would grant you paradise.

This will be more obvious in this chapter.

Chapter 103

1 By time,

2 Indeed, mankind is in loss,

3 Except for those who have believed and done righteous deeds and advised each other to truth and advised each other to patience.


Hope this helps

 

[Sha'irullah]

I just wanted to reply on this as a Muslim.

Islam is a "din". "din" is an Arabic word which means a system of life.

Islam in Arabic means five things, all at once. These five things are Surrender, Submission, obedience ,sincerity And Peace.

I hope that you know I am a former Muslim. None of this is new to me.

So Islam is system of life. It is not just a label.

All religions are a system of life. Hinduism is a perfect example of this. It incorporates itself into Indian society so much it cannot be removed

Being labelled a "muslim" doesn't give you a free ticket to paradise because every person will be accountable for everything he does.

Quraan makes it very clear. If you look at it you will always see the two concepts coming together. These two concepts are "those who believe and do good deeds".

Here is an example,

2:25 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally.

This concept is repeated everywhere in the Quraan. It is the "belief" and "doing righteous deeds" together side by side that would grant you paradise.

This raises a whole other issue which concerns morality as belief in Allah seems to be the only proper foundation for morality according to most Muslims.

This will be more obvious in this chapter.

Chapter 103

1 By time,

2 Indeed, mankind is in loss,

3 Except for those who have believed and done righteous deeds and advised each other to truth and advised each other to patience.


Hope this helps

This does not help in the slightest bit. Being an ex-Muslim I am overly familiar with these ayat

 

[Sha'irullah]

I don't know what Bible you're reading, but none of that 'free ticket to heaven' jazz is in anything I've ever read. In fact, one could say the general standard for the OT/NT is actually pretty high.
Perhaps.....some people try to 'sell' a ticket to heaven through baptism parties or the like, but that isn't scriptural.
On the other hand, is it fair to go to hell because of our corrupt
nature? This is pretty much the problem of original sin in a nutshell.

There is no explicit concept of heaven in the OT and it is left for the Jews to decide. What I am interested in is the NT if you are a Christian.

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"(John 14:6)

 

[LuisDantas]

The way I see it, "going to Heaven/Hell" would only be fair if people were always perfectly aware of their actions' consequences and generally had the choice between constructive and destructive actions.

I don't see much in the way of evidence for either, much less both.

Therefore, I don't think beliefs in Heaven / Hell are to be taken literally. At their best, those ideas are illustrations of bliss and torment, to be used in proper contexts and always in close relation to the need to act or make choices and accept the consequences even if they are not actually desired.

 

[Glaurung]

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"(John 14:6)

All that means is that only through Christ is there means to salvation. It's not necessarily a declaration that only explicit Christians can be saved.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hell is important. Otherwise people might never care to distinguish between god and evil and right and wrong!

Knowing there is hell, people might completely change from evil to good just to avoid going to it!

Dunno, just my thought!

 

[LuisDantas]

Hell is important. Otherwise people might never care to distinguish between god and evil and right and wrong!

Knowing there is hell, people might completely change from evil to good just to avoid going to it!

Dunno, just my thought!

I guess I just don't understand why you think so. There is no shortage of good and convincing reasons to exercise discernment and moral judgement regardless of whether there is a Hell.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I guess I just don't understand why you think so. There is no shortage of good and convincing reasons to exercise discernment and moral judgement regardless of whether there is a Hell.

Well, call it an extra defense line to prevent some people from doing evil

I for one don't want to go to hell, along with so many other reasons, so I prevent doing so many bad thing!

We have a saying here that goes (roughly translated): With the absence of punishment, one shows bad manners with out care. I don't generalize to all people, but it is there!

Again, just my own thought and I respect and disagreement

 

[kashmir]

Even if Jesus in fact does save, this concept is not a get out of jail free card.
It simply can not work that way.
"do what we want, come sunday, ask for forgiveness"
start the week, do what we want....

I do believe in the afterlife, and I know Jesus did exist, just as other prophets did, after that, it's a complete mystery to us.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well, call it an extra defense line to prevent some people from doing evil

Sorry, no can do. I am simply not at all convinced that it is helpful or constructive for that purpose.

I for one don't want to go to hell, along with so many other reasons, so I prevent doing so many bad thing!

Really? It surprises me that it can work at all.

We have a saying here that goes (roughly translated): With the absence of punishment, one shows bad manners with out care. I don't generalize to all people, but it is there!

Again, just my own thought and I respect and disagreement

I know that you are respectful, which is why I respect your own opinion... even if it puzzles me.