Should incest be banned?

[InformedIgnorance]

Actually, evolution limits the population of those who are likely to be selected for breeding, thus it actually (to a certain extent) reduces the gene pool, resulting in a greater likelihood of individuals breeding with those members of the species who have environmentally adapted or desirable (in that they make survival more likely) traits... that means in theory it could actually encourage a certain level of inbreeding.

 

[nnmartin]

of course , in the past - incest was necessary to increase the population as we all presumably came from small villages etc.

but as for the here and now, it is hardly necessary for survival of the species.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Neither is posting on a forum; but hey... it feels so good

 

[Tiberius]

of course , in the past - incest was necessary to increase the population as we all presumably came from small villages etc.

but as for the here and now, it is hardly necessary for survival of the species.

Oh my goodness....

You think people never traveled to the next village over?

And anyway, if incest was so common back then and yet didn't cause any health problems, why do you have a problem with it now?

You don't think about this very much, do you?

 

[nnmartin]

I"m sure it caused many problems - why do you think it took folk so long to discover that a round disc was more useful than a square one? (ie: the wheel)

this is probably down to the slow evolution of intelligence due to incest.

and also, have you ever spent any time in a small village in the depths of the third world - plenty of simple minded folk there with the features suggestive of immoral practices , I doubt too many of these would pass the entrance exam to Harvard!

mainly due to the wrong selection of partner.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I am sorry, but your argument is absurd Martin.

Not only do you not back up your claim regional areas have higher levels of incest that relate in birth, thus producing a higher level of the offspring resulting from inbreeding within the population; you have not presented any evidence suggesting such individuals would have lower levels of intelligence. You also seem to be attempting to suggest that it is only because of this supposedly higher levels of incest that many of them would likely have difficulty with tertiary education, ignoring the fact that the vast majority of them are not the result of inbreeding, yet would still have similar levels of intelligence and similar difficulty with tertiary education - which arises because of their lack of primary education, not some supposedly incestuous ancestry. ((And of course I am ignoring your spurious and completely unsupported claim about the wheel, which was due more to the fact that all humans were stupid back then on account of our underdeveloped brains, not due to whom they chose to sleep with))

 

[nnmartin]

the incest is a factor amongst others.

but in places where incest is the norm amongst closely the related , we are likely to see far less social and economic development.

Nepotism is also an issue we must consider as well.

now, why would one need to further one's skills if you could easily get a job through a family contact?

no standard merit system would be at play here - just jobs for the family etc..

 

[InformedIgnorance]

How about we stick to incest since that is the topic at hand rather than nepotism (which by the way is useful if we are to look at it at least from a small business perspective)

How about you demonstrate the supposed negative correlation between incest (or more specifically the proportion of a population resulting from incestuous unions) and economic (or social) development? I would love to see some statistics that back up such a claim.

 

[nnmartin]

that's easy to demonstrate - just go out and watch a film such as 'Deliverance' or 'The Hills have eyes' - this shows you what happens with unchecked incest in small communities.

now, imagine those folk were running the country or local businesses!

all you need to now do, is tone down the idea somewhat and convert it to a more real-life situation and you can see what I'm getting at.

and I'm sure you must know by now that I am not a great believer in providing sources or evidence in these kind of debates as it goes nowhere, but only into a 'my source is better than your source' type debacle.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Yeah... I prefer not to rely on Hollywood for facts.

OMG the titans are coming!

 

[nnmartin]

I agree that it's hard to specifically separate the problems created by poverty, culture and incest but it seems to be taken as a fact that long term incest does cause intellectual impairment.

so if we look at a culture where incest is considered more or less normal, then, over long periods, it must confer negative results to society.

or do you think not?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

'taken as fact' =/= fact

I agree that it is a common perception, that does not mean it is true.

I have also already stated several times that a SUSTAINED history of interbreeding (read as several generations of offpsring) between close family members is likely to increase the likelihood of birth defects and the like. It is the recursive nature when combined with the higher similarity of genetic material that causes this - not one generation, even if that is of immediate family.

 

[nnmartin]

the 'like father, like son' expression comes into effect here though.

so if your parents and relatives are up to it then it is more likely for the children to follow suit. This would be a form of subliminal conditioning and could easily have abuse issues attached to it.

this is one for Tiberius too - one of your yearned for answers!

subliminal abuse issues can be seen at work here.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

The ancestors of humans lived in a world where the strong dominated the weak; they were murdering thieving rapists - yet most of us are not.

'Like father, like son'? Poor 'evidence' to support your position.

 

[nnmartin]

that has very little relevance to a debate over the legalisation of incest.

looks like logical fallacy time again.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I agree, very much so; 'like father like son' is indeed a nonsensical argument to make.

 

[Tiberius]

I"m sure it caused many problems - why do you think it took folk so long to discover that a round disc was more useful than a square one? (ie: the wheel)

What the hell does this have to do with incest?

this is probably down to the slow evolution of intelligence due to incest.

The only trouble is that when procreation between close relations occurs a great deal (such as a population bottleneck), it leaves tell tale genetic traces. This happened with cheetahs, for instance. Do you have any evidence that this occured with Humans?

and also, have you ever spent any time in a small village in the depths of the third world - plenty of simple minded folk there with the features suggestive of immoral practices , I doubt too many of these would pass the entrance exam to Harvard!

My god, how can you keep making unsupported claims? I mean, really, how hard is it to spend a bit of time on Google trying to find out if incest is more common in remote tribes? is this what you are reduced to now? You're really grasping at straws here, aren't you!

 

[nnmartin]

I don't need Google - I've been to some of these places and have seen it with my own eyes.

ie: forehead too big, eyes too close together, strange facial features etc.. these are generally synonomous with incest.

so what do you think of the 'like father like son' allegation?

 

[antonjarrod]

All individuals should strive to understand the bases upon which people act. By seeking knowledge in accordance with the individual's capacities, the appropriate mature and spiritual response to activities such as incest can be found, which can only be based in tolerance, understanding and love. That this fundamental truth can be obscured and confused and altered according to individual bias is a given, but ultimately through evolution the community will grow to foster better ways of engaging with others.

Anton

 

[nnmartin]

tolerance , understanding and love....

so where do you draw the line - what is acceptable and unacceptable love:

if I can love my sister then how about the 14 or 15 year old girl next door?

how about my dog?