Should Israel be annihilated?

[Kalibhakta]

No not really.

So settlement building and expelling Palestinians from their homes is not a slow absorption?

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Wait Bosnia Herzegovina worked? Have you ever read a bit about internal B-H politics?
Or is your measurement of "worked" that the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and the Republic of Srpska don't wage war against eachother?
Also please be honest if you just heard about the Republic of Srpska for the first time in your life.

And how is "Cisjordan" in any way a neutral name?

No,. I knew of Srpska. The Bosnians, Croats and Serbs have stopped killing each other and at the moment there is peace. More I can say then the current situation in the area talked about

Belgium might have been a better example.

Cisjordan sucks as a name but it's not an insane Jumble of words like "The Republic Of Palestine and Israel."

 

[Flankerl]

So settlement building and expelling Palestinians from their homes is not a slow absorption?

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Nothing gets build outside the C-Area, which is allowed under the Oslo Accords.

inb4 Jerusalem(it was annexed after 1967 and all its inhabitants got the chance(and still have it) to acquire Israeli citizenship)

No,. I knew of Srpska. The Bosnians, Croats and Serbs have stopped killing each other and at the moment there is peace. More I can say then the current situation in the area talked about

Belgium might have been a better example.

I love you jump from one failed state to the next as some sort of solution.

BiH and Belgium are not a good examples at all. The Bosniaks and Croats hate the Serbians very much and vice verse. The Bosniaks and Croats meanwhile also hate each other though to a lesser extant because the Serbs exist.
The country literally has 3 Heads of State because otherwise it would all start again. And its not getting better, its the Balkan.

In Belgium meanwhile the Flemish and Wallonians also hate each other on a more civilised level than in the Balkans while the small German Community is like "guys please stop".
The country is effectively divided. Wallonians get spit on in Flanders while Flemish get spit on in Wallonia. Both halves of the country have segregated political parties which make actual governing impossible.

Cisjordan sucks as a name but it's not an insane Jumble of words like "The Republic Of Palestine and Israel."

If you call it Cisjordan you might as well do it completely and call it Palestine.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I like Jews, ...

No doubt some of your best friends ...

 

[Brickjectivity]

In what way can a state be meaningfully Jewish without infringing on the rights of non-Jews in it?

I don't say the state religion is meaningfully Jewish and maintain the Knesset is secular. It appears the founders cannot not agree whether the state should be religious or secular, so they have a secular voting mechanism but have empowered religion to regulate marriage licenses. So it is a secular state that has an official religion but not a mandatory religion.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I don't think you have be secular and have an official religion

Maybe 'Official religion' is the wrong term since the religion isn't mandatory?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But do you believe the nation has the right to choose the nature of their state?

To the extent that it doesn't deprive individuals of their rights, sure. Some types of state (e.g. police state, monarchy, theocracy) go against the rights of their citizens and are therefore illegitimate, IMO.

 

[Tumah]

To the extent that it doesn't deprive individuals of their rights, sure. Some types of state (e.g. police state, monarchy, theocracy) go against the rights of their citizens and are therefore illegitimate, IMO.

Well, in the case of Israel, it is the people who voted in a right-wing government. So how would you argue against their right to have a Jewish state?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Well, in the case of Israel, it is the people who voted in a right-wing government. So how would you argue against their right to have a Jewish state?

One of the strengths of the US is the extent to which its system of governance constrains the tyranny of the majority.

 

[Tumah]

One of the strengths of the US is the extent to which its system of governance constrains the tyranny of the majority.

Wouldn't the opposite be tyranny of the minority?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Heaven forbid there is a single state among the +190 states in the world where the Jewish and Secular(Western minus the Christian holidays) Calendar are both valid, where Hebrew and Arabic are the official languages, where Jewish holidays are state holidays and not Christian or Muslim ones, where the weekly day of rest is Saturday and not Friday or Sunday.

Out of necessity, every country has to decide which languages their government will function in, and which days government offices will and won't be open. The decision to put these things in line with the majority culture of the country doesn't mean that the government has somehow adopted that culture's religion.

How about this, the world cuts down on Christian and Muslim countries and their "privileges" as mentioned above until there is only one Christian and one Muslim state and then we'll talk about the horrible discriminatory status of the Jewish Calendar in Israel?

My government funds religious schools (only Christian), and my head of state is required by law to be the head of a Christian church. Believe me: I see these things as major problems and am doing what I can to change them.

... but this thread isn't about Canada or any other nominally Christian country; it's about Israel.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't say the state religion is meaningfully Jewish and maintain the Knesset is secular. It appears the founders cannot not agree whether the state should be religious or secular, so they have a secular voting mechanism but have empowered religion to regulate marriage licenses. So it is a secular state that has an official religion but not a mandatory religion.

If it has an official religion, then it isn't a secular state.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Wouldn't the opposite be tyranny of the minority?

No, it would not. But tell me, my democratic friend, what would you think about a nation-wide vote in Israel on equal rights for women?

 

[Tumah]

No, it would not. But tell me, my democratic friend, what would you think about a nation-wide vote in Israel on equal rights for women?

I'm don't believe in democracy, I believe in theocratic monarchy.

Women don't have equal right in Israel?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Wouldn't the opposite be tyranny of the minority?

If you think it's tyrannical to insist that everyone - including people with minority views - should have certain basic rights, then you have a strange definition of "tyranny".

 

[Tumah]

If you think it's tyrannical to insist that everyone - including people with minority views - should have certain basic rights, then you have a strange definition of "tyranny".

I don't think we were talking about specific rights.

 

[Tumah]

If it has an official religion, then it isn't a secular state.

Normally that would be the case. But in the case of Israel, because Judaism is not only classified as a religion but also as a nation, it isn't true. Meaning the vast majority of Israelis are secular, they do not follow the Jewish religion. But they want the state to have a Jewish nature, that is, populated mostly by Jews. Its not a statement about religion but about nationality.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Normally that would be the case. But in the case of Israel, because Judaism is not only classified as a religion but also as a nation, it isn't true. Meaning the vast majority of Israelis are secular, they do not follow the Jewish religion. But they want the state to have a Jewish nature, that is, populated mostly by Jews. Its not a statement about religion but about nationality.

Your post has me confused. I made a point about a state's official religion, and then you talk about how Israel's status as a Jewish state isn't about religion. It's structured like an objection to my post, but nothing in it seems to disagree with what I said. Am I missing something here?

 

[Tumah]

Your post has me confused. I made a point about a state's official religion, and then you talk about how Israel's status as a Jewish state isn't about religion. It's structured like an objection to my post, but nothing in it seems to disagree with what I said. Am I missing something here?

Now, I'm confused. You accurately state that I am explaining that the Jewish nature of the state is not about its religious nature, because those same Zionists are for the most part, secular, yet you don't see how that doesn't contradict the notion of a secular state.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Now, I'm confused. You accurately state that I am explaining that the Jewish nature of the state is not about its religious nature, because those same Zionists are for the most part, secular, yet you don't see how that doesn't contradict the notion of a secular state.

This tangent started when I replied to another poster who claimed that Israel has an official RELIGION but is still (somehow) secular and you replied to my post. From the beginning of our exchange, the context has been the Jewish religion, not other aspects of Jewish culture.

 

[Tumah]

This tangent started when I replied to another poster who claimed that Israel has an official RELIGION but is still (somehow) secular and you replied to my post. From the beginning of our exchange, the context has been the Jewish religion, not other aspects of Jewish culture.

My mistake.