Should Israel be annihilated?

[Brickjectivity]

I think that the people of Israel - of all religions - are entitled to safety, security, and freedom, including the freedom to believe and worship as they they see fit. I don't think that anyone has the right to a Jewish (or Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.) state.

I understand separation of church and state. They have a right to have their state their way. Technically its a secular state with an official religion.

 

[Kalibhakta]

I understand separation of church and state. They have a right to have their state their way. Technically its a secular state with an official religion.

I don't think you have be secular and have an official religion

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

To be fair, I think it is best said that Hilter was an atheist who nevertheless found Christianity to be a useful tool of control. It is a lose/lose for Christians and Atheists who want Hitler to be in the other guys camp.

I'm open to the idea that he just used Christianity for show, and I recognize that later on, he got into occult stuff that went against mainstream Christian beliefs, but I've never seen any reasonable argument for him being an atheist.

I think the more important question, though, is about the religious beliefs of the German people. If they hadn't been "primed" for anti-Semitism by Luther, Calvin, various Popes, and many other Christian sources, Hitler's ideas wouldn't have gained the traction they did. If Hitler had just been a lone kook, the Holocaust wouldn't have happened.

Now that I have you, what is up with that avatar of yours?

It's Crypty the Cryptosporidium.

I used to be really into homebrewing beer, so my avatar on a forum I used to be on was a high-magnification photo of a yeast particle.

One year, we decided that our avatars should dress up for Hallowe'en, so my yeastie dressed up as a cryptosporidium. I ended up liking it, so I kept it and used it when I came here.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I understand separation of church and state. They have a right to have their state their way.

In what way can a state be meaningfully Jewish without infringing on the rights of non-Jews in it?

Technically its a secular state with an official religion.

No such thing.

 

[YmirGF]

In what way can a state be meaningfully Jewish without infringing on the rights of non-Jews in it?

So secular Jews are not meaningful? Seriously?

 

[Kalibhakta]

I'm open to the idea that he just used Christianity for show, and I recognize that later on, he got into occult stuff that went against mainstream Christian beliefs, but I've never seen any reasonable argument for him being an atheist.

I think the more important question, though, is about the religious beliefs of the German people. If they hadn't been "primed" for anti-Semitism by Luther, Calvin, various Popes, and many other Christian sources, Hitler's ideas wouldn't have gained the traction they did. If Hitler had just been a lone kook, the Holocaust wouldn't have happened.

Most of Hilter's supposed Atheism comes from "Hitler's Table Talk" rather then "Mein Kampf". He speaks very poorly of Christianity there. But in many ways you are right. He did have a rich Christian Tradition of Antisemitism to draw on, and that is a mark of shame. The French Monarchists, who were very proto-fascist, had at least one Atheist who believed people should be forced to be Catholic in the name of social stability, his own view of a lack of god be damned.

But seriously. Every one of us could be Hitler. Hitler is treated like a Historical Satan, on earth, but "over there". Physically. Psychically *Of the Mind, not New Age*. No. He was a person who appealed to people like you and me who where otherwise Rational. We need to guard our hearts against such people, lest we lose ourselves.

It's Crypty the Cryptosporidium.

I used to be really into homebrewing beer, so my avatar on a forum I used to be on was a high-magnification photo of a yeast particle.

One year, we decided that our avatars should dress up for Hallowe'en, so my yeastie dressed up as a cryptosporidium. I ended up liking it, so I kept it and used it when I came here.

Nice. I am not one for beer, but I admire good home cooked food and drink. Is there home brewed wine?

Yes, he is the cutest opportunistic infection ever!

 

[gsa]

Apologies, but do you not watch the news perhaps? Have you not heard of all the conflicts sweeping the Mideast which have nothing to do with the Israel/Palestine issue? Is it still 1985 where you live?



Please tell us who said ANYTHING AT ALL about forcing anybody to do anything? Look my friend, raise your game or this is gonna get embarrassing.

I'm not suggesting that we attempt to resolve every global or regional conflict with one single peace deal.

Your alternative is not feasible, but my proposal, at least,could be on the table in whole or part with enough will and pressure.

 

[gsa]

Ok. I don't get this.

Israel seems to want to absorb Palestine into Israel.

We seem powerless to stop this. Seems foolish to hope the Palestinians could ether.

What becomes of a Jewish Israel, then, when Israel becomes the mono-state, but it has more Muslims then Jews in it?

Apartheid seems to be the short term answer, but the existential question of if you can be a Jewish state without being majority Jewish in population.

Unlike some, I don't think Israel is going to commit genocide.

I think the only viable solution is to have a duel Arab-Jewish state that is dominated by nether side, and to give it a new name, like Cisjorden or something. It worked for Bosnia and Herzegovina.

A modified binational solution is possible, but it would require significant concessions from Israel to work. So there's still a carrot stick issue.

I don't think they're interested in an extermination campaign but there is plenty that can be done shy of that while making Palestinians suffer unnecessarily. Also pretty clear that historically marginalised groups are perfectly capable of doing monstrous things if they can be persuaded it's in their national interest.

 

[Kalibhakta]

A modified binational solution is possible, but it would require significant concessions from Israel to work. So there's still a carrot stick issue.

I don't think they're interested in an extermination campaign but there is plenty that can be done shy of that while making Palestinians suffer unnecessarily. Also pretty clear that historically marginalised groups are perfectly capable of doing monstrous things if they can be persuaded it's in their national interest.

Yes, but can you look at me and say Hamas or Hezbollah could beat Israel? What outside force can? Can you honestly tell me that a Binational solution is possible if Israel refuses? Israel looks like it's ready to turn into the Democratic version of North Korea and weather the worlds scorn. The thing that will Cause Israel to lose is it's own self-defined terms of it being a Jewish State, and it can't do that under a one state plan.

 

[Jumi]

this is not motivation , since they were not threaten Germany ,they were not even majority of minarity population for my guess to made "state coup"or revolution .

He thought they were as strong a race as his own. The rest of the races were basically nothing, slave races, so only Jews were a real threat in his strange worldview. It's said in his book.

There were plenty of excuses, like blaming them for losing WW1 or forgeries like Protocols of Zion.

Nothing real though.

 

[Tumah]

Really the solution is simple: Israel withdraws from the West Bank, lifts the embargo and blockade of Gaza, reinforces border security in exchange for, say, EU or NATO membership. Complete with regional resource management overseen by the Security Council.

That's still easier and less immoral than forcing millions of Jews into refugee status. And Israel can become a real member of the West.

How do you enforce border security with missiles that have the nasty habit of flying over the security fence?

 

[Tumah]

I think that the people of Israel - of all religions - are entitled to safety, security, and freedom, including the freedom to believe and worship as they they see fit. I don't think that anyone has the right to a Jewish (or Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.) state.

But do you believe the nation has the right to choose the nature of their state?

 

[Tumah]

I think the only viable solution is to have a duel Arab-Jewish state that is dominated by nether side, and to give it a new name, like Cisjorden or something. It worked for Bosnia and Herzegovina.

And what do you do to prevent the Arab side of the state, which now has their own border control, from firing rockets onto the Jewish side?

 

[Tumah]

thank for this information

What Jewish law that said it's bad sin for Jews to go up to Alaksa ?

What Orthodox Jews opinion about religion sites , especially Alaqsa ?

The Law that it is not permitted to enter the Temple mount when one is impure. All Jews today have a status of impure. Also, for specific castes to go into certain areas of Temple mount is not permitted. The Rabbis do not allow it.
In my opinion, it is better to have al Aksa up there, because it is saving Jewish lives. The punishment for a Jew to go there while impure is to be cut off from G-d. And if the Mosque wouldn't be there, it would be a tourist site for Jews and they would all deserve this very bad punishment.

 

[Tumah]

What would you do if you woke up one day and realized you and your family were living in the heart of the most dangerous ghetto on Earth?

I'm NOT telling Israelis what to do, it's their call. I'm only trying to articulate the bottom line choices I see them facing. If they choose land over kids, it's their choice and I will cross my fingers, wish that I am wrong, and hope for the best. But I won't be surprised if the best doesn't happen.

That *might* be true in places like Sderot, where the constant missile barrages really affects day to day living. But as for the rest of the country, its not really bad as much as having the potential to be bad.
So I would say the comparison between raising your children in Israel vs strapping bombs to your children's chests and using them as meat shields, is really not an accurate one.

 

[psychoslice]

Any one or any nation who threatens another, should be annihilated from this earth.

 

[Kalibhakta]

And what do you do to prevent the Arab side of the state, which now has their own border control, from firing rockets onto the Jewish side?

I don't know, how does Israel plan to stop it with Military Conquest?

What would the final crushing of Hamas and Hezbollah be then?

How does it end in your vison?

 

[Tumah]

I don't know, how does Israel plan to stop it with Military Conquest?

What would the final crushing of Hamas and Hezbollah be then?

How does it end in your vison?

I don't work in the government, so I couldn't tell you what their long term plans are. Their short term plans seem to revolve around denying them the ability to easily import missiles and the assorted paraphernalia necessary for their construction. They accomplish this by closing their borders and working with Egypt to maintain security.

The best option, would be if Hamas, Hezbollah and Fatah consistently demonstrated - both to the world and to their constituents - a willingness to achieve peace through peaceful means.Then Israel can rest assured that the day following release of their borders, they will not be Blown to Bits By a Barrage of Ballistics. However, since for the meanwhile, they don't seem to be willing to do so, the only other viable means of attaining peace that I am aware of, will come with the arrival of the Messiah.

 

[Typist]

Your alternative is not feasible,

You're probably right about that. My proposal will likely only become feasible after some huge tragic calamity.

but my proposal, at least,could be on the table in whole or part with enough will and pressure.

Again I agree except that your proposal, even if fully successful, won't solve the real problem, which has little to do with the Palestinians. You're fighting the last war, so to speak.

 

[Flankerl]

I object to this! Turkey isn't part of the Middle-East, goddamn it!

Edit; Nor is Iran!

The geographer in me is extremely displeased.

Of course they are both Middle Eastern. Asia Minor and Iran have always been counted as Middle Eastern.

American Jews are doing great. Problem solved.

Because everyone wants to be a tiny minority in some random state.

Israel seems to want to absorb Palestine into Israel.

No not really.

I think the only viable solution is to have a duel Arab-Jewish state that is dominated by nether side, and to give it a new name, like Cisjorden or something. It worked for Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Wait Bosnia Herzegovina worked? Have you ever read a bit about internal B-H politics?
Or is your measurement of "worked" that the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and the Republic of Srpska don't wage war against eachother?
Also please be honest if you just heard about the Republic of Srpska for the first time in your life.

And how is "Cisjordan" in any way a neutral name?

I think that the people of Israel - of all religions - are entitled to safety, security, and freedom, including the freedom to believe and worship as they they see fit. I don't think that anyone has the right to a Jewish (or Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.) state.

Because Christians, Muslims, Baha'i, Buddhists, ... aren't allowed to exercise their Religions in Israel.
Easter is just over, Jerusalem was even crazier than it usually is with all those weirdo Christians running around.

In what way can a state be meaningfully Jewish without infringing on the rights of non-Jews in it?

Heaven forbid there is a single state among the +190 states in the world where the Jewish and Secular(Western minus the Christian holidays) Calendar are both valid, where Hebrew and Arabic are the official languages, where Jewish holidays are state holidays and not Christian or Muslim ones, where the weekly day of rest is Saturday and not Friday or Sunday.

How about this, the world cuts down on Christian and Muslim countries and their "privileges" as mentioned above until there is only one Christian and one Muslim state and then we'll talk about the horrible discriminatory status of the Jewish Calendar in Israel?

I understand separation of church and state. They have a right to have their state their way. Technically its a secular state with an official religion.

Yeah no technically its not.