Should it be Illegal to Indoctrinate Kids With Religion?

[Quintessence]

A good idea? Sure, if you're a fanatic whose knowledge and understanding of religion is one shaped by hatred and prejudice. It is as easily dismissed as any other idiotic idea rooted in prejudice. The suggestion is basically the same as saying "make it illegal to raise a child with a culture I don't agree with." Disgusting.

 

[Sanzbir]

Everyone has an ideology, or several. Everyone. Whether religious or secular, they are ideologies the same. You won't be able to stop anyone from indoctrinating their kids in their ideologies of choice, except by taking them away from their guardians and giving them to different guardians who will also impose their ideology.

Here's the only solution. Make your ideology so attractive that it naturally draws people on the free and open marketplace of ideas. If you can't do that, don't try to resort to force to win because you won't. There are too many things going on in human psychology like the Streisand Effect to make forcibly suppressing an ideology in any context possible without extremely unethical behavior.

 

[Sanzbir]

Actually the real motive behind the OP is whether there is any benefit to encouraging religious belief in children. I couldn't think of any. I could however think of cases where this can be harmful.

So setting aside government intrusion, which I'm against anyway, what benefit is there in encouraging religious belief in children?

Should have made the OP that, then.

Sure there could be benefit. Which religion and which children??

 

[Nakosis]

Should have made the OP that, then.

Sure there could be benefit. Which religion and which children??

Any religion is fair game. Which children? Is there a specific need to differentiate?

 

[Mindmaster]

“Religion should remain a private endeavor for adults,” says Giovanni Santostasi, PhD, who is a neuroscientist at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine and runs the 10,000 person strong Facebook group Scientific Transhumanism. “An appropriate analogy of religion is that’s it’s kind of like porn—which means it’s not something one would expose a child to.”

Some Atheists and Transhumanists are Asking: Should it be Illegal to Indoctrinate Kids With Religion? | HuffPost

Make it illegal to bring kids to church until they're 18? Until they have developed some rational skepticism?
Constitutionally in the US can't do this, if we could though, would it be a good idea?

Why or why not?

Simple really, first is that atheists typically display arrogance - including this case - about the nature of all religions. Many religions do not indoctrinate or force their children to participate (or even ALLOW it). However, I think that it is right for children to understand their parents spiritual beliefs in order to form a close relationship with them. Most of the anti-religious crap comes from the same people who want the family unit destroyed, and for the most part the religion one is involved with is a family thing. Who exactly would enforce such a ban? The gubermint? HAH! This is more leftist family destruction malarkey masquerading as some sort of psuedo-intellectual superiority complex. Pardon me, not interested.

I have my own beefs with various mainstream religions, but I think it is completely exaggerating to blame _them all_ for the particular problems of a few.

 

[Laika]

Actually the real motive behind the OP is whether there is any benefit to encouraging religious belief in children. I couldn't think of any. I could however think of cases where this can be harmful.

So setting aside government intrusion, which I'm against anyway, what benefit is there in encouraging religious belief in children?

Dam It!

*rolls up Soviet plans to eliminate religion*

I'll go sit back in my dark corner now where I belong .

 

[Sanzbir]

Any religion is fair game. Which children? Is there a specific need to differentiate?

Is there not?? Every child is different and can benefit differently from different things.

Just generally: A kid can learn the benefits of meditation from a religion that teaches it.

Religions that focus on detachment from material pleasures or avoidance from alcohol could help a child with a genetic predisposition for alcoholism avoid that disorder.

Religions that emphasize personal journey could emphasize open-mindedness and a willingness to explore new ideas for a child.

And religions that are overly authoritative could, if people I have met are any indication, lead to the child developing a good sense of anti-authoritarianism.

 

[Nakosis]

The OP mentioned "illegal" several times which is why I framed my earlier post the way it did.

My general attitude is that parents should be honest about their beliefs and let children decide for themselves. I also don't see any problem with exposing children to parent's ethnic background, cultural preferences and so forth.

It did me no harm to attend Seders, learn the blessings of bread and wine, learn the religious history that I was born in and so forth. And that was all due to my atheist Jewish parents wanting me to know about my heritage.

I was also wondering if making it illegal should be opposed. I'm kind of on the fence.

It did no harm, but would it have cause harm if you had not attended?

The original article equated religion to porn. The government does regulate access to porn. So such regulation is not without precedence.

My friend stole his father's playboy when I was a kid. I feel my exposure to religion caused me more harm than my exposure to porn.

 

[Jumi]

*rolls up Soviet plans to eliminate religion*

I'll go sit back in my dark corner now where I belong .

Perhaps you should change your views there, just like the Soviets did. [edit: rapproachment, rehabilitation]

 

[DavidFirth]

Yeah, I pretty much figured you for a law breaker.

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I go along with SabahTheLoner's "I don't think small children should be forced into religion, but when they are older (not 18 but perhaps 14 or even 12) they can choose their religion or lack thereof."

That said, considering the authority people invest their religion with I can never see this happening.

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You just think everybody ought to be indoctrinated into pure atheism. Yeah, we know.

 

[Jumi]

You just think everybody ought to be indoctrinated into pure atheism. Yeah, we know.

How does one do that? Pure atheism, or the bare minimum required to be an atheist, isn't something you need to work for.

 

[DavidFirth]

How does one do that? Pure atheism, or the bare minimum required to be an atheist, isn't something you need to work for.

You have to convince a child that no god exists when you surely cannot prove none do. You can't even reason them away.

 

[Deidre]

I want to believe most parents mean well when teaching their kids about their beliefs. I know my parents meant well, but little did they know, that one day I would figure out the awful truth about Catholicism. The problem with indoctrination though is that it can be very hard to let go of the teachings, even if you're hanging onto it just a little, that you learned as a kid. Those teachings are almost like a second skin when you learn them before the age of reason. Sort of like learning how to ride a bike...you just listen to your parents, and go along with it, like any other set of instructions.

 

[Jumi]

You have to convince a child that no god exists when you surely cannot prove none do. You can't even reason them away.

I don't think that's hard, since kids need to be taught god. If we didn't need to do it and they believed anyway, then you'd need to indoctrinate them not to, to achieve "pure" atheism.

 

[Nakosis]

Is there not?? Every child is different and can benefit differently from different things.

Which could mean the specific religious belief of the parents may not be beneficial to their children.

Just generally: A kid can learn the benefits of meditation from a religion that teaches it.

Religions that focus on detachment from material pleasures or avoidance from alcohol could help a child with a genetic predisposition for alcoholism avoid that disorder.

Religions that emphasize personal journey could emphasize open-mindedness and a willingness to explore new ideas for a child.

Ideas which could be covered by various philosophies. Or, ok maybe a religion which doesn't teach the "Truth" about God like Buddhism.

And religions that are overly authoritative could, if people I have met are any indication, lead to the child developing a good sense of anti-authoritarianism.

Eventually, you're kind of taking the chance assuming the kid will rebel.

I don't know if we want that either, not all authority is bad. We should IMO encourage the open questioning of authority. Authority must prove itself to be worthy of it's authority. I always taught my kids to question whatever I told them.

Of course now they believe nothing I say and I've raised a house full of Progressives.

 

[DavidFirth]

I don't think that's hard, since kids need to be taught god. If we didn't need to do it and they believed anyway, then you'd need to indoctrinate them not to, to achieve "pure" atheism.

If that's true then why did most of the people who lived thousands of years ago think there was at least one god? It's pretty obvious to deduce that a Creator must exist after you rule out silly things like abiogenesis.

 

[Jumi]

If that's true then why did most of the people who lived thousands of years ago think there was at least one god?

Even if you believe they were a small and persecuted group at the time, how do you explain the people who didn't believe? Who indoctrinated them?

It's pretty obvious to deduce that a Creator must exist after you rule out silly things like abiogenesis.

If you need to deduce something, then it's not something you are born believing in.

 

[DavidFirth]

Even if you believe they were a small and persecuted group at the time, how do you explain the people who didn't believe? Who indoctrinated them?


If you need to deduce something, then it's not something you are born believing in.

You aren't born believing in anything but, "Where's my next meal coming from?" and "Mommy!"

 

[Sanzbir]

Which could mean the specific religious belief of the parents may not be beneficial to their children.

Duh, that's what I'm saying. It's rather situational.

Ideas which could be covered by various philosophies. Or, ok maybe a religion which doesn't teach the "Truth" about God like Buddhism.

So it seems to me you are talking about theism not religion. You're not asking "is there a benefit to teaching kids religion" (because there is, as I have shown. Just because you can get those benefits outside of religion too doesn't mean there aren't benefits, and nontheistic religions are still, you know, religions), you are really asking is there a benefit to teaching kids that God is real.

Is my assumption about your true question under your true question under the OP correct??

 

[Enoch07]

Make it illegal to bring kids to church until they're 18? Until they have developed some rational skepticism?

Constitutionally in the US can't do this, if we could though, would it be a good idea?

Why or why not?

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If anything it would have the opposite effect and make religion more appealing and increase the number of Christians.

Btw Jordan Peterson > Sam Harris