should prostitution be legal?

[We Never Know]

My next vacation has gotta be Canada

Don't get busted....

"Prostitution in Canada is legal with strict regulations. Under the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, it is legal to communicate with the intention of selling sex; however, it is illegal to communicate with the intention of buying sex and illegal to purchase sex services"

A 2023 link..

Countries Where Prostitution Is Legal 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[Subduction Zone]

My next vacation has gotta be Canada

Or New York City:

Manhattan to Stop Prosecuting Prostitution, Part of Nationwide Shift (Published 2021)

The district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., moved to dismiss thousands of cases dating back decades, amid a growing movement to change the criminal justice system’s approach to prostitution.

www.nytimes.com

Or maybe not:

"The office will continue to prosecute other crimes related to prostitution, including patronizing sex workers, promoting prostitution and sex trafficking, and said that its policy would not stop it from bringing other charges that stem from prostitution-related arrests.

That means, in effect, that the office will continue to prosecute pimps and sex traffickers, as well as people who pay for sex, continuing to fight those who exploit or otherwise profit from prostitution without punishing the people who for decades have borne the brunt of law enforcement’s attention."

But the odds are that if they do not go after the "massage" workers they really can't go after those using their services. They would have to take over a site and run it as a sting. A patron would probably be fine as long as they did not initiate the activity. If the police start the deal it would fall under entrapment.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Don't like sex work? Don't do it.

Trite response. Some of us care about the well being of others.

Anecdotal evidence.

So? It's enough for me.

You are all right for all the wrong reasons. (And for one right reason.)
I said that prostitution is a victimless crime. But when people are coerced into the work with force and or lies, that is a crime in itself and the prostitute is a victim. That doesn't make the prostitution criminal but the circumstances.

I don't view commercial sexual exploitation as victimless. It harms the dignity of the human person to reduce the most intimate aspects of them to an object, a commodity to be bought and sold, imv. Sex is not just a physical act, and cannot honestly be merely reduced down to it. It affects us on all levels of the self.

 

[Heyo]

Why does prostitution make the customer a criminal?

Did I say that? @Saint Frankenstein advocated for it, not I.
But a pimp can be a criminal and sometimes a customer can also if he tries to get something he didn't pay for.

 

[Heyo]

Trite response. Some of us care about the well being of others.

I see the moral dilemma. I care for the well being of others but I also care for their liberty. By criminalizing prostitution you make yourself a moral judge over others.
You say prostitution is dehumanizing, I say criminalizing prostitution is infantilising. "You don't know what's good for you, I do."

I don't view commercial sexual exploitation as victimless. It harms the dignity of the human person to reduce the most intimate aspects of them to an object, a commodity to be bought and sold, imv. Sex is not just a physical act, and cannot honestly be merely reduced down to it. It affects us on all levels of the self.

That is your view. I respect that and that's why I said you shouldn't take part in that business. Other people have other views. You should respect theirs.
What we both agree upon and I'm comfortable to declare as law, is when real harm is done and it is done without consent. I.e. forcing or coercing sex, human trafficking and other related crimes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Did I say that? @Saint Frankenstein advocated for it, not I.
But a pimp can be a criminal and sometimes a customer can also if he tries to get something he didn't pay for.

Misunderstanding.
Covering more possibilities...
Prostitutes can be criminals if they rob the customer.
And the cops who arrest either are often criminals.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Did I say that? @Saint Frankenstein advocated for it, not I.
But a pimp can be a criminal and sometimes a customer can also if he tries to get something he didn't pay for.

"Pimps" can exist to protect sex workers. I could probably supply links if needed, but in France pimps used to exist to protect the girls more than to force them to work. In countries where prostitution has been decriminalized pimps have been arrested and convicted for abusing their workers.

 

[PureX]

I would choose to decriminalise entirely and I don't feel entirely dissimilar - I'd prefer that people weren't in the position that they choose prostitution. If people are going to choose sex work society shouldn't make their lives more difficult and dangerous.

Sex work twitter is jam packed with people who sell sex and aren't mentally ill. There are campaign groups set up and run by sex workers who are constantly pointing out that mental illness isn't a common feature of their "union". Many people selling sex aren't damaged, homeless drug addicts. A lot of people seem to choose it because they prefer it to the lines of work they did in the past.

And we all know that people who pretend they want to have sex with strangers for money would never lie about being drug addicts, emotionally damaged, or victims of their own greed.

 

[Yerda]

And we all know that people who pretend they want to have sex with strangers for money would never lie about being drug addicts, emotionally damaged, or victims of their own greed.

Can't take sex workers at their word - that would treating them like adults.

 

[PureX]

Can't take sex workers at their word - that would treating them like adults.

They literally lie for a living. And allow themselves to be sexually abused for money. It has nothing to do with their being adults.

 

[Yerda]

They literally lie for a living. And allow themselves to be sexually abused for money. It has nothing to do with their being adults.

It has everything to do with their being adults though.

 

[Father Heathen]

There are all kinds and degrees of human exploitation and abuse. And there are all kinds of labor that is not exploitive or abusive. Penetrating a stranger's body cavities to ejaculate in them is extraordinarily exploitive, and abusive, and humiliating, apart from their sincere desire. So let's start there, and ban that. We can worry about the burger-flippers, later.

Think about it logically; it's not a perfect solution, but legalization, regulation, licencing, etc. would help reduce health and safety concerns for sex workers, as well as help combat pimps and traffickers.
Keeping it dangerous for sex workers isn't helpful, and sanctimonious finger wagging certainly won't make it magically disappear.

 

[Curious George]

Think about it logically; it's not a perfect solution, but legalization, regulation, licencing, etc. would help reduce health and safety concerns for sex workers, as well as help combat pimps and traffickers.
Keeping it dangerous for sex workers isn't helpful, and sanctimonious finger wagging certainly won't make it magically disappear.

I understand your argument and think that in an ideal world that would be the case. However, I think that there are many factors for which your idyllic model fails to acknowledge. Specifically, coercion, manipulation, mental heal, addiction, greed and sadism. You are dealing with a world that is rife with exploitation, and simply allowing for “legalization, regulation, licensing etc. doesn’t magically make those other aspects disappear.

 

[Father Heathen]

I understand your argument and think that in an ideal world that would be the case. However, I think that there are many factors for which your idyllic model fails to acknowledge. Specifically, coercion, manipulation, mental heal, addiction, greed and sadism. You are dealing with a world that is rife with exploitation, and simply allowing for “legalization, regulation, licensing etc. doesn’t magically make those other aspects disappear.

Prohibition doesn’t magically make those other aspects disappear, either.
As I've said, it's not a perfect solution, but it would create a better situation for sex workers than the current one. Also, licencing and regulation could require registration, counseling, drug testing, health check-ups, etc.
Keeping it underground only serves to keep the exploitation and trafficking thriving.

 

[Curious George]

Prohibition doesn’t magically make those other aspects disappear, either.
As I've said, it's not a perfect solution, but it would create a better situation for sex workers than the current one. Also, licencing and regulation could require registration, counseling, drug testing, health check-ups, etc.
Keeping it underground only serves to keep the exploitation and trafficking thriving.

I just don’t see how any of what you are talking about will remove the current issues. Perhaps you can explain how and why you think that such additions are going to reduce the current levels of exploitation we see?

Do you believe that there will be a reduction in consumers? Do you believe exploitation within such a legal framework is less likely or impossible? Do you believe that persons who are trafficked are more likely to transition to above the law areas?

If a 13 year old is trafficked from 13-18 and then makes their way to legalized prostitution do you think that is supportive or healthy for them?

I guess I imagine than in the best case scenario what you are discussing will allow for middle to upper class earners (the jobs) to have a slightly less guilty alternative. But even in the legalized sector I see plenty of room for exploitation.

 

[Father Heathen]

I just don’t see how any of what you are talking about will remove the current issues. Perhaps you can explain how and why you think that such additions are going to reduce the current levels of exploitation we see?

Do you believe that there will be a reduction in consumers? Do you believe exploitation within such a legal framework is less likely or impossible? Do you believe that persons who are trafficked are more likely to transition to above the law areas?

If a 13 year old is trafficked from 13-18 and then makes their way to legalized prostitution do you think that is supportive or healthy for them?

I guess I imagine than in the best case scenario what you are discussing will allow for middle to upper class earners (the jobs) to have a slightly less guilty alternative. But even in the legalized sector I see plenty of room for exploitation.

For the 3rd time, I didn't say that it was perfect or that it would solve everything. Perhaps it would be easier for you to explain why keeping it illegal (which obviously hasn't solved anything) would be in the best interest of sex workers.

 

[Revoltingest]

I understand your argument and think that in an ideal world that would be the case. However, I think that there are many factors for which your idyllic model fails to acknowledge. Specifically, coercion, manipulation, mental heal, addiction, greed and sadism. You are dealing with a world that is rife with exploitation, and simply allowing for “legalization, regulation, licensing etc. doesn’t magically make those other aspects disappear.

In our non-ideal world, we've policing & justice systems
that are heinously abusive. Abusing sex workers &
customers this way is akin to human trafficking in that
it involves threats, violence, kidnapping, imprisonment,
more violence, rape, & ruined lives.
Legalization looks better suited to imperfect worlds.

 

[Curious George]

In our non-ideal world, we've policing & justice systems
that are heinously abusive. Abusing sex workers &
customers this way is akin to human trafficking in that
it involves threats, violence, kidnapping, imprisonment,
more violence, rape, & ruined lives.
Legalization looks better suited to imperfect worlds.

So because there are issues that cause harm with our current system we should further create another system from a sector with heavy amounts of exploitation?

Your logic seems to be missing a step.

 

[Curious George]

For the 3rd time, I didn't say that it was perfect or that it would solve everything. Perhaps it would be easier for you to explain why keeping it illegal (which obviously hasn't solved anything) would be in the best interest of sex workers.

I am not asserting that you are saying that it will solve everything. I am asking how you think such a system would help address the problems that already exist and how the system you would like to introduce wouldn’t, in fact, bring more issues and problem.

 

[Father Heathen]

I am not asserting that you are saying that it will solve everything. I am asking how you think such a system would help address the problems that already exist and how the system you would like to introduce wouldn’t, in fact, bring more issues and problem.

Title: The Case for Legalizing and Regulating Prostitution: A Progressive Approach to Sex Work

Introduction

Prostitution has long been a controversial and complex issue, with moral, social, and legal implications. However, it is time to reevaluate our perspective on this profession and consider the benefits of legalizing and regulating prostitution. By adopting a progressive approach to sex work, societies can ensure the safety and well-being of sex workers, protect their human rights, combat human trafficking, and promote public health. This article will outline the reasons why legalizing and regulating prostitution is a good idea.

1. Ensuring Safety and Protection

One of the most compelling reasons to legalize and regulate prostitution is the ability to create a safer environment for sex workers. Criminalization often pushes prostitution underground, making it difficult for authorities to monitor and address issues related to violence, exploitation, and abuse. By bringing sex work out of the shadows and into the legal framework, governments can implement regulations and safeguards to protect the well-being and rights of sex workers.

2. Combating Human Trafficking

Legalization and regulation provide an effective tool to combat human trafficking, a grave violation of human rights. When prostitution is decriminalized, law enforcement agencies can focus their efforts on identifying and prosecuting traffickers rather than penalizing consenting adults engaged in sex work. Additionally, regulations can ensure that individuals engaging in sex work are doing so voluntarily and are not victims of coercion or exploitation.

3. Protecting Human Rights

Sex work is a form of labor, and like any other occupation, sex workers should be entitled to basic human rights and protections. Legalization and regulation enable sex workers to access labor rights, including fair wages, safe working conditions, and legal recourse for grievances. These measures empower sex workers to assert their rights and challenge exploitation, discrimination, and abuse.

4. Public Health and Harm Reduction

The criminalization of prostitution exacerbates public health risks. By legalizing and regulating the industry, governments can implement comprehensive health and safety protocols. Regular health screenings, access to condoms and contraceptives, and educational programs can significantly reduce the transmission of sexually transmitted infections (STIs) and promote safe sexual practices. Moreover, legalizing prostitution opens avenues for sex workers to access healthcare services, including counseling and addiction support, reducing drug-related harm and the spread of diseases.

5. Economic Empowerment and Taxation

Legalizing and regulating prostitution can have positive economic effects. Sex work can be a significant source of income for individuals who may not have access to other employment opportunities due to various reasons, including stigmatization or lack of qualifications. By recognizing and regulating this industry, governments can ensure that sex workers are not pushed into poverty and are able to earn a living with dignity. Additionally, taxing the industry can generate revenue for public services and contribute to economic growth.

6. Shifting Societal Attitudes

Legalizing and regulating prostitution provides an opportunity to shift societal attitudes towards sex work. By acknowledging that sex work is a legitimate profession, we can reduce the stigma and discrimination that sex workers often face. This change in perspective can pave the way for better social integration, improved access to support services, and a more inclusive society.

Conclusion

Legalizing and regulating prostitution is a progressive and pragmatic approach to addressing the complex issues surrounding sex work. By prioritizing the safety and well-being of sex workers, combating human trafficking, protecting human rights, promoting public health, empowering individuals economically, and challenging societal stigmatization, societies can create an environment that respects the rights and choices of consenting adults involved in sex work. It is time to embrace evidence-based policies that prioritize harm reduction and social justice, while recognizing the agency and autonomy of sex workers.

Thanks, ChatGPT!