Should public college be free of cost, or would it create too much liability?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Before we try that maybe we could educate the electorate on basic economics so they would understand that there is no free lunch.

Indeed. The cost would have to be borne by finding savings elsewhere.

I suggest starting with the direct and indirect subsidies given to drivers. In the US, this amounts to an average of $641,000 per driver over their lifetime.

After all, there's no such thing as a free lunch... right?

 

[pearl]

Typically, trade schools have been given short shrift.
And colleges have taught a lot of highly "optional"
subjects that could be cut back on.

I agree they have not always enjoyed a good reputation, if you can't do anything else go to a trade school. Fortunately, things have changed. Now they are referred to as technical schools. And they are demanding, students must continue with math and english etc., plus the trade skills and an apprenticeship. The results have been very positive.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree they have not always enjoyed a good reputation, if you can't do anything else go to a trade school. Fortunately, things have changed. Now they are referred to as technical schools. And they are demanding, students must continue with math and english etc., plus the trade skills and an apprenticeship. The results have been very positive.

High schools still treat non-college-bound students
with neglect. Course material isn't geared towards
teaching them useful skills. And even liberals I know
look down on people in the trades.

 

[Sand Dancer]

The question up for debate is...

Should public college be free of cost, or would it create too much liability?

My side: I take the stance that yes, free tuition of public college would indeed be best for society in general. It could be costly for government. And it could cause other problems which need to be addressed as they spring up. But one way of paying for it is, if more people go to college, they make more money (in a perfect world), then they have more money that can be taxed. So not only do you potentially end up with a more educated society, but in the long run, there's the hope that free public college will eventually pay for itself by someone's potential 20+ years of work before retirement, should the average be that high, and the additional tax dollars picked up along the way from the higher salaries of said workers.

If it were free, everyone would go, whether or not they wanted to use it for a career. It should be more funded by government, as it was in the past. Private colleges would not be, obviously.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why not have a targeted bill to finance child care services?

That won't help those getting paid little to to provide those services.
Yes, you could also do grants. Would that be available to all to go into a field working with kids? If yes you're making college practically tuition free for a group. If no there are still many getting stuck with high debt to work a low paying but important field.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

One can learn to write & research from this, but
is it worth 4 years of study & paying big bills?

There are jobs doing just that, including writing the research grant applications.

 

[Revoltingest]

There are jobs doing just that, including writing the research grant applications.

Sure. But such courses aren't the best
training for grant writing. Why not take
courses with useful subject matter in
order to learn how to write?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sure. But such courses aren't the best
training for grant writing. Why not take
courses with useful subject matter in
order to learn how to write?

It turns out those are some good training for writing.

 

[Revoltingest]

It turns out those are some good training for writing.

Doesn't mean that such courses are the
best choice, especially for a student
borrowing money for 4 years of school.
Look at how many millions of students
are cadging for loan forgiveness cuz
they can't earn enuf to repay. My taxes
are spent on their bad judgment. Argch!
Not
good
trainng.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Doesn't mean that such courses are the
best choice, especially for a student
borrowing money for 4 years of school.
Look at how many millions of students
are cadging for loan forgiveness cuz
they can't earn enuf to repay. My taxes
are spent on their bad judgment. Argch!
Not
good
trainng.

They could always give up the idea of college and become cops.

But you'd probably like that even less.

 

[Revoltingest]

They could always give up the idea of college and become cops.
But you'd probably like that even less.

What people should glean from my posts is
that not all college educations are useful, or
at least not worth the debt they incur.
Think before spending. College isn't mandatory.
Perhaps there's some better path to success,
like learning a trade.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Doesn't mean that such courses are the
best choice, especially for a student
borrowing money for 4 years of school.
Look at how many millions of students
are cadging for loan forgiveness cuz
they can't earn enuf to repay. My taxes
are spent on their bad judgment. Argch!
Not
good
trainng.

As I've pointed out many of those are useful degrees to fill needed positions, and the cost of college has been rocketing upwards for decades now. You mention anthropology degrees, but governments hire anthropologists.
Truly, it's a century's old problem in America where, mostly those who are Right Wing, have long failed to understand how education relates to society at large, including those topics and subjects they like to scoff at (which at its worst has included education as a whole), including topics they insist are useless but actually aren't.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

What people should glean from my posts is
that not all college educations are useful, or
at least not worth the debt they incur.
Think before spending. College isn't mandatory.
Perhaps there's some better path to success,
like learning a trade.

Makes sense.

 

[Revoltingest]

As I've pointed out many of those are useful degrees to fill needed positions, and the cost of college has been rocketing upwards for decades now. You mention anthropology degrees, but governments hire anthropologists.

Governments can hire anyone....actors, criminals, the
uneducated (eg, cops). This possibility doesn't mean
that having a relatively useless education is worth
borrowing & spending vast sums of money on.

Truly, it's a century's old problem in America where, mostly those who are Right Wing, have long failed to understand how education relates to society at large, including those topics and subjects they like to scoff at (which at its worst has included education as a whole), including topics they insist are useless but actually aren't.

Not all education is equally useful.
Going deeply into debt for a degree that won't
enable repayment is dumb as a box of rocks.

 

[Revoltingest]

Makes sense.

Oh....I'd better stop that.

 

[metis]

If we want a better educated populace so as to better compete in tomorow's world, we're fools if we don't invest more in education, including colleges, trade schools, business schools, etc.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

that having a relatively useless education is worth
borrowing & spending vast sums of money on.

How is anthropology useless?

Not all education is equally useful.
Going deeply into debt for a degree that won't
enable repayment is dumb as a box of rocks.

What's useful though? What's useless? What makes them so? Like anthropology. You mentioned it as useless but they're actually quite useful and you probably just don't know what it is they do. I actually looked into it myself, and while it is indeed a very employable thing it is the sort of job that will likely require you going where the jobs are. I'm not willing to do that because that likely would mean there's a good chance of getting stuck where the people and weather are crappy. Like Kentucky, where they have a very large forensic anthropology program due to the mountains, a part of which the university has dead bodies in various states of decay scattered about. And everyone from the local coroner up to international courts use forensic anthropologists as experts.

 

[Shaul]

Indeed. The cost would have to be borne by finding savings elsewhere.

I suggest starting with the direct and indirect subsidies given to drivers. In the US, this amounts to an average of $641,000 per driver over their lifetime.

After all, there's no such thing as a free lunch... right?

There are simply too many things wrong with that article to cover. Its main premise, that drivers are subsidized, is not made. Private vehicle drivers pay more in taxes and fees than the government spends on supporting infrastructure. Federal and State governments collect about $86,000,000,000 in revenue from fuel taxes and fees each year. And that is just taxes and fees on the fuel. Huge additional revenue is generated from vehicle purchase and registration fees. In addition, these revenues are used to subsidize non-motor vehicle spending. Things such as mass transit systems, electric vehicles, bicycles and pedestrian infrastructure. Also the article completely ignores the indirect benefits to society such as employment that private vehicle use creates. Jobs such as automobile manufacturing, service station personnel and road construction. In summary, motor vehicles have issues but biased arguments don't serve a good purpose.

 

[Revoltingest]

How is anthropology useless?

The real question...
How is anthropology useful?
Wanna be a useful citizen...then study engineering,
medicine, business, nursing, law, dentistry, physics,
or curing meat.

What's useful though? What's useless? What makes them so? Like anthropology. You mentioned it as useless but they're actually quite useful and you probably just don't know what it is they do. I actually looked into it myself, and while it is indeed a very employable thing it is the sort of job that will likely require you going where the jobs are. I'm not willing to do that because that likely would mean there's a good chance of getting stuck where the people and weather are crappy. Like Kentucky, where they have a very large forensic anthropology program due to the mountains, a part of which the university has dead bodies in various states of decay scattered about. And everyone from the local coroner up to international courts use forensic anthropologists as experts.

Anthropology graduates likely lead the pack
in pressing Biden for student loan relief.
But "forensic anthropology" is a completely
different field...it's useful.

 

[metis]

How is anthropology useless?

One of the central teachings in Buddhism is the interrelationship of everything.

As you're obviously aware of, studies of peoples throughout the world have become more and more important in recent years, not less. As we have to increasingly interreact to these peoples on a worldwide scale, it's best to know something about them, including in the business arena. And by learning about others, we also learn more about ourselves, and that also is important.

I took my first anthro course in my junior year of college, and I found it so fascinating that almost all my classes for the rest of that year and into my senior year was in it. After graduation, I did my graduate degree in that field and ended up teaching it for 30 years. I have never regretted having a special focus there, and I still do quite a bit of reading in it even though I'll have been retired for 20 years this spring.