Should Sharia Law be forbidden in Non-Muslim (Western) countries?

[Limo]

@Limo , I find it interesting that you consider the idea that there is only one God a value.

Would you feel inclined to elaborate on why?

I'm willing to discuss anything.
The most important is to discuss a more complex one "Who is that Creator ? if there is any"

 

[LuisDantas]

You and all people the same belief are the source of all whatever issues we've.
You think you chose for people better than themselves.
You do everything bad by supporting tyrants by weapons and money just to keep Islam away from governments.

You're asking why most of tyrants are in Muslim countries ?
Because of people like you.
You're behind all I mean all military copes since 70 years.

But you know something?
You're losing and the first lost was in Turkey

Just stay away from Muslim countries and everything will be perfect

I hope you did not expect me to make any sense of this, because that is beyond my ability.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm willing to discuss anything.
The most important is to discuss a more complex one "Who is that Creator ? if there is any"

No, I am by now pretty certain that such a question is actually nearly entirely devoid of any importance.

But if you feel otherwise, feel free to tell us why.

 

[Notanumber]

The only good thing that can be said about Islam is the fact that it causes Muslims to fight amongst themselves as much as much as they do against non-Muslims.

While Islamists are busy harming each other, they are not harming us so much.

 

[LuisDantas]

The only good thing that can be said about Islam is the fact that it causes Muslims to fight amongst themselves as much as much as they do against non-Muslims.

While Islamists are busy harming each other, they are not harming us so much.

That is a silver lining at best. No one truly benefits from a permanent cause of strife.

 

[Limo]

No, I am by now pretty certain that such a question is actually nearly entirely devoid of any importance.

But if you feel otherwise, feel free to tell us why.

No problem, I'm ready to discuss anything

 

[Pastek]

Should western laws be allowed in Muslim countries ?.

A majority of muslim countries have adopted western laws during the time of the colonisations and still use it.


Even though the Napoleonic Code was not the first civil code and did not represent the whole of his empire, it was one of the most influential.
The Code was also adopted in Egypt as part of the system of mixed courts introduced in Egypt after the fall of Khedive Ismail.

In the Persian Gulf Arab states of the Middle East, the influence of the Napoleonic Code mixed with hints of Islamic law is clear, even in Saudi Arabia (which abides more towards Islamic law). In Kuwait, for example, property rights, women's rights, and the education system can be seen as Islamic reenactments of the French civil code.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Code

Le Code civil fut enfin introduit par la France dans la plupart des pays qui ont composé son empire colonial. Cela a contribué à lui donner un rayonnement dans toutes les parties du monde.
Ainsi, l'Afrique du Nord, l'Afrique noire française et certains pays d'Asie ont adopté le Code civil et l'utilisent encore. Le Sénégal a réformé récemment le Code civil et le nouveau texte reprend pour la plus grande part le code français.

(translation The Code was introduced in the majority of France's colonial Empire.
North Africa, Africa and some Asian countries adopted the Code et still use it.
The reform of the new text in Senegal has a majority of french code's parts.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_civil_(France)#Une_aura_internationale

 

[LuisDantas]

No problem, I'm ready to discuss anything

Just to be clear, this is a resolved matter far as I am concerned.

The existence of a God (creator or otherwise) is a matter of strict personal preference and has next to no significance whatsoever outside of that sphere.

It is not even a problem if someone changes his or her mind on the matter several times a day on personal whims or even by tossing dice.

I am well aware that Muslims feel very much otherwise. For better or worse, I disagree. I am either an apatheist or a borderline case of one.

And no, that is not a problem at all, except to the extent that I have to go through the trouble of explaining to others that such is the case.

 

[icehorse]

Hi @Limo ,

I took your list (of Islamic values), and summarized it:

- no god but allah
- respect your parents
- be charitable
- no adultery
- no murder (with some exceptions)
- be kind to orphans
- trade fairly
- don't believe hearsay
- be humble

I have a few quibbles, but for the sake of discussion let's agree that this is a nice list. I have concerns:

1 - There's really nothing on this list that wasn't well known before Muhammad was born.
2 - This list seems to leave out other - more problematic - Islamic values, such as:

- convert everyone to Islam, or else make them slaves
- value men more highly than women
- value Muslims more highly than non-Muslims
- value the Quran more highly than knowledge
- hate "others" like Jews, polytheists, and homosexuals

So my summary is that Islam borrowed some good values, and introduced many disruptive values. Not good.

 

[Akivah]

Islam, or at least a very significant, active and determined segment of it, expects everyone to eventually convert to it and at least sometimes complains when majorities or significant minorities of Muslims are not given political power and religious privileges.

Where or when does that happen, i.e. complaining when minorities don't get political power and religious privileges.

 

[LuisDantas]

Where or when does that happen, i.e. complaining when minorities don't get political power and religious privileges.

Currently, it is most visible in much of Europe.

 

[Akivah]

Currently, it is most visible in much of Europe.

Oh. I misread your quote. I read it as Muslims complaining when OTHER minorities don't get political power. I see now that you said Muslim minorities are the ones doing the complaining. Carry on.

 

[Limo]

Hi @Limo ,

I took your list (of Islamic values), and summarized it:

- no god but allah
- respect your parents
- be charitable
- no adultery
- no murder (with some exceptions)
- be kind to orphans
- trade fairly
- don't believe hearsay
- be humble

I have a few quibbles, but for the sake of discussion let's agree that this is a nice list. I have concerns:

1 - There's really nothing on this list that wasn't well known before Muhammad was born.
2 - This list seems to leave out other - more problematic - Islamic values, such as:

- convert everyone to Islam, or else make them slaves
- value men more highly than women
- value Muslims more highly than non-Muslims
- value the Quran more highly than knowledge
- hate "others" like Jews, polytheists, and homosexuals

So my summary is that Islam borrowed some good values, and introduced many disruptive values. Not good.

Islam is isolated nether from previous prophets teaching nor from good ethics
Prophet Muhammed said " I just came to complete good ethics " he mears existing good ethics
He is last prophet, he recognised previous ones all of them
A few items in your list is inaccurate and some are misinterpreted. Following are quick comments :
- convert everyone to Islam, or else make them slaves
Incorrect. The actual value is no compulaion in relegion
- value men more highly than women
Incorrect: men and women has the same rules of laws. Only in family the husband has the leadership, captain of the family chip
- value Muslims more highly than non-Muslims
Inaccurate: non-Muslim blood and money are harm and deserves pinshment in life and old days.
- value the Quran more highly than knowledge
Inaccurate: quran is a Allah words that is absolutely higher and no way to be compared with any religious or philosophical book. When it comes to scince quran is not all scientific knowledge is valued
- hate "others" like Jews, polytheists, and homosexuals
Why you didn't add Christmas to the list?

Without get into endless debate, hate or love is something in the heart. Ask me about how Muslims should deal with non-Muslims? This is much important. I can tell you simply that millions of non-Muslims were living under caliphate for hundreds of years. The Muslims countries were the safe refuge for Jews who run away from eurpoe in all eras


You're welcome

 

[icehorse]

Hi @Limo

I'm glad to hear your interpretations of Islam. I wish Islamic history agreed, and I wish more Muslims today agreed with you. Sadly, many Muslims do not share your views and interpretations.

 

[Limo]

Hi @Limo

I'm glad to hear your interpretations of Islam. I wish Islamic history agreed, and I wish more Muslims today agreed with you. Sadly, many Muslims do not share your views and interpretations.

What I told is the correct interpretation
Every word is packed by quran
The history is doubtfully and every side has his own story

The main problem if your knowledge about Islam is taken from non-Muslims writings, just give it a try from Islamic sources

 

[icehorse]

What I told is the correct interpretation
Every word is packed by quran
The history is doubtfully and every side has his own story

The main problem if your knowledge about Islam is taken from non-Muslims writings, just give it a try from Islamic sources

Dude,

It's not about me, it's about your fellow Muslims!

 

[Limo]

Dude,

It's not about me, it's about your fellow Muslims!

If it's not about that's good
regards

 

[icehorse]

If it's not about that's good
regards

I'm not sure I understand this sentence of yours? From my perspective, it's really terrible news that many Muslims disagree with you. Those Muslims that disagree (and there are hundreds of millions of them), are hurting mankind, not helping.

(Now, of course they don't represent our only problem, there are many problems, but this is one of the big problems.)

 

[LuisDantas]

What I told is the correct interpretation
Every word is packed by quran
The history is doubtfully and every side has his own story

The main problem if your knowledge about Islam is taken from non-Muslims writings, just give it a try from Islamic sources

With all due respect, that is not even close to good enough for anyone's peace.

Whether a source, group or person is "truly" Islamic is not supposed to make much of a difference in the first place. And it most definitely is no reason nor justification to watch without action as so much wrongdoing occurs.

 

[Akivah]

The main problem if your knowledge about Islam is taken from non-Muslims writings, just give it a try from Islamic sources

OK, here is an excerpt of an article written by Lebanese journalist Nadim Koteich

It doesn't matter which Islamic text, whether it is Koranic or jurisprudential, or a text recounting the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad; the killers do not kill for nothing, they kill in the name of books, fatwas, ayahs, and age-old tradition. All of these things are inseparable parts of true Islam. They will remain Muslims as long as they pronounce the shahada and as long as the religious institution doesn't dare to modernize the criteria for being a Muslim."These killers are us. They are our religion at its most extreme. They are our true Islam taken to its furthest extent, and they are not beyond the scripture.

{snip}

"The original texts that form an inseparable part of the true Islam and that inspire the ongoing crimes committed in its name are also guilty. This will be true as long as there is no central authority to reorganize the relationship between the Islamic text, as a piece of history, and the necessities of the present day – in the same way that the Koranic text itself acclimatized as the ayahs were gradually sent down, with some new rulings replacing older ones...

"Nothing can [harm] Islam and Muslims as much as such crimes, and yet we still make do with saying that they do not represent the true Islam, without providing a clear description of what true Islam is – beginning with our religious schools, some of which are factories for crime, to our constitutions, which are rigged with the mines of Islamic jurisprudence and Sharia law.

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/8633.htm