Should Sharia Law be forbidden in Non-Muslim (Western) countries?

[Limo]

They paid a higher tax rate than Muslims do.



Yet there weren't safe nor free, they had to pay a protection tax.

Yes Christians can be very very toxic to other Christians. This has be a common trend for centuries.

As per Islamic Sharia, Non-Muslims pays a fixed amount without any dependencies on their wealth but Muslims pays 2.5% of saving.


Your info is old Shad. They don't pay protection tax since 200 years

 

[Shad]

As per Islamic Sharia, Non-Muslims pays a fixed amount without any dependencies on their wealth but Muslims pays 2.5% of saving.

The tax is not fix as it is based on income.

Your info is old Shad. They don't pay protection tax since 200 years

I wasn't talking about the present nor did I say I was. Strawman. Besides you are still wrong as the Ottoman's didn't abolish Jiyza until 1858. Do the math.

 

[Limo]

Irreverent and a lazy excuse



Ive showed otherwise.



Perhaps you deviated....



Irrelevant



Yet I have showed otherwise.

You've showed otherwise by one from your side.

I repeat, if there is compulsion of religion then why there were millions of non-muslims lived under Islamic states?

 

[Limo]

The tax is not fix as it is based on income.




I wasn't talking about the present nor did I say I was. Strawman. Besides you are still wrong as the Ottoman's didn't abolish Jiyza until 1858. Do the math.

Look, you're repeating non-muslim allegations.
I don't care about it.
We were discuss Coptic Christian issue, remember ???

 

[Limo]

That's what assimilation means. I don't think Jews were given such a choice.

Even if Jews would have accepted the conditions, Nazis would not let them go.

Same these days, even if Muslims in western countries changed their names, clothes, acting,,,, .
Anti-Islam people will say "It's in your heart"
It should be finished
Who knows, It might end up with Holocaust for Muslims

 

[Shad]

Look, you're repeating non-muslim allegations.

No since I cited the people involved such as the people that paid the tax. You haven't even supported your claim. It is a useless dodge, nothing more.

I don't care about it.

I already know you do not like facts considering you rarely state facts.

We were discuss Coptic Christian issue, remember ???

Which is still true as Egypt was still under Ottoman control in 1858....

 

[icehorse]

Yes, lying is Haram/forbidden/one of the worst sins in Islam.

Did I lie on you ?

Sorry, What shall I do if you're ignorant about history of the area and Islam.

Read about the worst atheist party in Turkish history. You'll know their acts against Islam and Muslims and they're responsible about Armenian issue. They're not Muslims and they didn't claim to be Muslims

Nevertheless, Turkish people has explanation that there were some exchanged killing and force people from both sides.... It's a long story.
Even there is a book by an Armenian archeologist who is denying that a genocide has happened and saying that it's an exchange of killing and forcing people to immigrate. He proofed also several hundred thousands of Turkish Muslims were killed as well

Hi Limo,

A couple of points:

1 - Do you disagree with the 500+ Islamic conquest battles documented in the video?

2 - Setting aside the Armenian genocide, can you explain why non-Muslims in Turkey went from 20% a hundred years ago to 1% now? There are similar examples throughout the ME. In summary, there are many examples that demonstrate that Muslim majority countries are quite hostile to non-Muslims living inside their borders. I think that the "no compulsion in religion" verse in the Quran has been abrogated in practice.

 

[Notanumber]

Is Hillary Clinton for or against Sharia Law?

 

[Limo]

Hi Limo,

A couple of points:

1 - Do you disagree with the 500+ Islamic conquest battles documented in the video?

2 - Setting aside the Armenian genocide, can you explain why non-Muslims in Turkey went from 20% a hundred years ago to 1% now? There are similar examples throughout the ME. In summary, there are many examples that demonstrate that Muslim majority countries are quite hostile to non-Muslims living inside their borders. I think that the "no compulsion in religion" verse in the Quran has been abrogated in practice.

I didn't deny the Islamic wars against the aggressive empires at that time.
I said I'm proud of it.
There are a few important points that are misleading in the video:

• Byzantine empire was an aggressive colonial empire that have salved peoples all over Europe and Middle East. So, Islamic opening was freeing these peoples
• Byzantine empire have done a lot of killing. Even Coptic Christians who are supposed to be from same religion but different Church have been harmed a lot
• Persian empire was worse
• Now, let us look at Crusade wars. It's not a shame to fight and concur according to the traditions at that time but the problem is how you're dealing with civilians, wounded, and prisoners
• In all Muslims opening wars at that time, the history didn't record any massacres against civilians in the cities. All the time it was about fighting soldiers not killing non-fighters men, women, and children
  
• Muslims have a clear war law since day one, don't kill non-fighters men, women, children, religious me, monks, tree. The Islamic wars were clean
  
• Crusade wars are full of killing of civilians, women, children. Give it a quick check about what happened when they concurred Jerusalem and to what level the blood of humans were there. There was no much difference between what Romans did with the city in year 70 CE and what crusades did
• Compare this with the opening of the city by Muslims, when the Patriarch of the city asked Muslim army to call the Caliph Umar himself from Medina (1200 KM) to receive the keys of the city without one drop of blood from Christians and Jews.

The difference in acting with civilians is clear when the city keys are handed over peacefully without one blood drop and when crusades slaughtered tens of thousand of civilians till blood reached the knees of horses

About decrease of number of non-Muslims : I didn't study Turkish cases but what I can tell Turkey was under tyrants reghimes since early of the 20th century supported by West
During these years, Muslims have suffered a lot, Mosques were closed, No calling for Prayer except for in Turkish language, no learning of Quran, letters of Turkish language was changed from Arabic letters to Latin letters.
All Turkish people have suffered a lot.
If non-Muslims population was decreased, it's not because compulsion of religious which is Haram/forbidden in Islam but because of these atheist tyrants regimes hurted the whole society with full support from West.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I'm loving the historical revisionism on display here. And it's not really a Muslim post if you don't blame either the Jews or the West for your problems either. Good show!

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Even if Jews would have accepted the conditions, Nazis would not let them go.

The Nazis original solution to 'the Jewish Problem' was to chase the Jews out of Germany. Once war broke out and two things happened:

1. the Nazis sphere of influence expanded to include exiled German Jews as well as Jews originally living in conquered territories and;
2. the fluid movement of people over borders between neutral (at best) or hostile nations became much more difficult

the Nazis realised they would never be rid of them and so changed their plans to extermination. The Holocaust was never the original plan.

 

[icehorse]

I didn't deny the Islamic wars against the aggressive empires at that time.

Hi Limo,

I'm going to assume that you're being sincere in your discussion of history. With that said, I believe that your history books are very wrong. I think your history books are lying to you. I think that if you were to do a lot of research, you'd discover that the entire non-Muslim world (and probably much of the Muslim world), knows that your history teachers have lied to you.

Islamic history is every bit as aggressive and violent as Christianity. Both religions have extremely embarrassing histories, and Muslims and Christians should all acknowledge these histories.

 

[interminable]

Western countries are proud of freedom of speech and reprimand and condemn some eastern countries because lack of freedom so why should islamic law be forbidden in such countries?????


And We don't claim that so why should we allow western laws be allowed in our countries????

 

[Limo]

Hi Limo,

I'm going to assume that you're being sincere in your discussion of history. With that said, I believe that your history books are very wrong. I think your history books are lying to you. I think that if you were to do a lot of research, you'd discover that the entire non-Muslim world (and probably much of the Muslim world), knows that your history teachers have lied to you.

Islamic history is every bit as aggressive and violent as Christianity. Both religions have extremely embarrassing histories, and Muslims and Christians should all acknowledge these histories.

Hi Ice,
If Muslim historians are lying, the same possibility exist and non-Muslims historians are lying.

What to do ?

You're not believing our historians.
Same with your biased historians are lying....

Ok, no agreement....

 

[icehorse]

Hi Ice,
If Muslim historians are lying, the same possibility exist and non-Muslims historians are lying.

What to do ?

Hi Limo,

You can do research on your own. You have the internet. I don't know where you live, but I would hope that your country allows you full access to the internet. I can tell you this. "The West" is better educated than the Muslim world. This is a statistical claim that I'm making. "The West" has more universities per person. We translate more books into more languages than the Muslim world. "The West" has more scientists per person than the Muslim world. And so on.

I believe in mathematics and statistics. For every history book written by Muslims, there are probably 100 history books written by non-Muslims, from all over the world. In order for those 100 authors to be lying, there would have to be a vast conspiracy that has lasted over the centuries. That's an extremely unlikely possibility.

 

[Limo]

Hi Limo,

You can do research on your own. You have the internet. I don't know where you live, but I would hope that your country allows you full access to the internet. I can tell you this. "The West" is better educated than the Muslim world. This is a statistical claim that I'm making. "The West" has more universities per person. We translate more books into more languages than the Muslim world. "The West" has more scientists per person than the Muslim world. And so on.

I believe in mathematics and statistics. For every history book written by Muslims, there are probably 100 history books written by non-Muslims, from all over the world. In order for those 100 authors to be lying, there would have to be a vast conspiracy that has lasted over the centuries. That's an extremely unlikely possibility.

I really thank you for your comments.
I hate to talk about my personal info.
Let me tell you something.
We don't have doubt that west is the center of knowledge, since, and technology and free thoughts. This is not questioned.
I'll tell you a secret, most of my knowledge about Christianity, gospels history, modern religious studies are from American and specifically American scholars professors in the greatest universities.
I've a plan to attend courses taught by these great professors in top American universities in Abraham religions studies.
I'm very connected to west, I'm working in high tech. I reached the top in my field.
I can provide you with fair western sources but my experience in debate tells me, you will not accept it.
You know there was a movie about Jesus-Christ is coming back to life these days but the Churches don't accept him and tries to kill him I don't remember if they succeeded to kill him or not. Same story, prejudge is the governor on debate. Islam is bad/terror/bloody/closed mind//// nobody hears even western fair resources
When we demonstrate the real Islam and our historical perspective, the answer is your historians are lying.
When we demonstrate the Quran which says clearly "No compulsion in religion", the answer is you're not applying
And son on.....

 

[Notanumber]

This is part of the difference between Islam and rational religions.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...banned-british-gymnastics-video-mocking-islam

I remember the good old Dave Allen sketches.

Moreover, Father Ted.

Why can't Islam laugh at itself like that?

 

[icehorse]

When we demonstrate the real Islam and our historical perspective, the answer is your historians are lying.
When we demonstrate the Quran which says clearly "No compulsion in religion", the answer is you're not applying

Hi Limo,

I'm not trying to pry into your personal info, no worries!

Please notice that I'm not denying the problems of the West. My experience debating Muslims over the last several years is that they typically deny that Islam or Islamic history has any problems.

So the summary message we hear over and over again from Muslims is: "The West has a lot of problems, but Islam is perfect". I hope you can see how non-Muslims cannot take that message seriously?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Western countries are proud of freedom of speech and reprimand and condemn some eastern countries because lack of freedom so why should islamic law be forbidden in such countries?????

Aside from the obvious fact that we can't have our citizens subject to segregated legal codes based on what they worship, Sharia law is at odds with human rights & equality legislations active in many Western countries because it is an inherently unequal system of law. Women are not viewed as equal, non-Muslims aren't viewed as equal to Muslims etc. The problem is there are already sharia courts operating in the UK issuing rulings that directly conflict with our human rights laws.

And the reason Islamic law should be forbidden in Western countries is because peoples' rights to freedom of religion (or, well, anything) end the moment their freedoms infringe on someone else's rights.

And We don't claim that so why should we allow western laws be allowed in our countries????

But that's exactly the case. Westerners have to conform to Islamic forms of dress & decorum in Muslim countries. By trying to undermine our cultures & customs, Muslims who advocate for sharia law are trying to have their cake and eat it.

 

[interminable]

Aside from the obvious fact that we can't have our citizens subject to segregated legal codes based on what they worship, Sharia law is at odds with human rights & equality legislations active in many Western countries because it is an inherently unequal system of law. Women are not viewed as equal, non-Muslims aren't viewed as equal to Muslims etc. The problem is there are already sharia courts operating in the UK issuing rulings that directly conflict with our human rights laws.

The most important question that everybody should answer is that
Should we obey God or God should obey us?
We think the creator is the only person that should be obeyed and if we are supposed to do whatever we want there wasn't any need to religion and its practice

And the reason Islamic law should be forbidden in Western countries is because peoples' rights to freedom of religion (or, well, anything) end the moment their freedoms infringe on someone else's rights.
And

Honestly I didn't get

But that's exactly the case. Westerners have to conform to Islamic forms of dress & decorum in Muslim countries. By trying to undermine our cultures & customs, Muslims who advocate for sharia law are trying to have their cake and eat it.

Do u think u have a great culture?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Racism and Homosexuality and making a dog as a family member and evaluating women as sexual merchandise and marrying animals instead of human is really a culture?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We don't try to undermine your transcendent culture!
U say freedom and act against it
We don't say freedom and act according to it


Besides I can show u that Islam has a good system of law for society including women and in all probability u have never heard of about its reasons