Should Sharia Law be forbidden in Non-Muslim (Western) countries?

[interminable]

I would agree that there is corruption everywhere, in the West, in the Islamic world, in the east.

I disagree that piousness ought to be any sort of criteria for leadership. Sorry to say, I equate pious with gullible. How about if we all worked to make our leaders moral and ethical?

I don't know what u saw from pious people that think in that way

A leader should be pious at first
And have a good political insight

And it's illusion that we can make it moral it's impossible commonly

 

[Tumah]

Islam is against arrogant countries

Really? You believe its your religious responsibility to fight against countries that are arrogant?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

My country is the best example

And which country would that be? Is it a paragon of justice & religious tolerance? Can women walk the streets wearing what they wish knowing that if they should ever be subject to sexual assault or rape then it will be their attackers and not them who will be punished?

And most of the problems and difficulties that we face in islamic states is because of interference of western countries

Ah, see. There it is. Got to squeeze a good ol' bit of West-blaming in there.

If u weren't we were the most successful societies

As compared to whom? The various Muslim empires never attained the lofty heights of high culture that the likes of Imperial China reached, or Achaemenid Persia, or Greece or the Roman Empire.

Who created isis???? US

Wrong, Saudi Arabia did.

Who created and supported alkaida? US

Okay, good point.

Who used atomic bomb? US

How is this relevant? Especially since the US didn't drop either a-bomb on a Muslim country?

Developed countries don't want others to be developed they want to keep them poor and challenged
Otherwise many Muslim societies weren't like this

Very true but don't act as though Muslims have only ever been the victims. The Ottomans virtually enslaved the Greeks in their own country and they committed genocide against the Armenians. Don't tell a Turk though otherwise they'll throw a temper tantrum. Hell, the very reason the Ottoman Empire fell apart is because it stuck its uninvited nose into what was until that point a war solely between European nations. Maybe us Western nations should learn from that and get out of the Middle East...

My point is Muslim countries would definitely be projecting power if the global power structure was different and they could get away with it.

 

[interminable]

Really? You believe its your religious responsibility to fight against countries that are arrogant?

There are lots of countries that have nothing to do with other nations
They don't harm other countries
But arrogant ones insist on this point that other countries should be under our command and can't tolerate other religions and cultures

We don't want to make enemy for ourselves but they don't allow us to be so

 

[Tumah]

There are lots of countries that have nothing to do with other nations
They don't harm other countries
But arrogant ones insist on this point that other countries should be under our command and can't tolerate other religions and cultures

We don't want to make enemy for ourselves but they don't allow us to be so

I personally haven't really seen that either on RF or in the news. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. But assuming you are right, on what basis are you assuming that they are doing so out of arrogance?

 

[interminable]

And which country would that be? Is it a paragon of justice & religious tolerance? Can women walk the streets wearing what they wish knowing that if they should ever be subject to sexual assault or rape then it will be their attackers and not them who will be punished?

Iran
Look be realistic!!!
U truly live in fantasy
Who can deny that men are lecherous and can't control their unbridled passions so the best and rational thing that we can do to protect women from those men is to wear hijab
When a woman wears it men know that this woman wants to protect her glory and doesn't want to be trampled by men

But a woman that reveals her beauty and her body to men shouldn't expect that men respect him

Something that u overlook is that we at first place are animals by reason we are human
And most of the people don't use their reason and instead are slaves of their passions

Ah, see. There it is. Got to squeeze a good ol' bit of West-blaming in there.

read my previous posts

As compared to whom? The various Muslim empires never attained the lofty heights of high culture that the likes of Imperial China reached, or Achaemenid Persia, or Greece or the Roman Empire.

In Iran صفویه is a good example of it also this one wasn't theocratic

Wrong, Saudi Arabia did.

Saudi Arabia is a creature of US
It just produces terrorists but weapons and information and plans and everything else is by support of US
Hillary Clinton says in one of her books that she traveled to more than 100 countries to gather criminals in Iraq and Syria
Actually do u know that isis in Iraq and Syria and Afghanistan don't kill American army???

How is this relevant? Especially since the US didn't drop either a-bomb on a Muslim country?

Human is human
Arrogant countries since pretend believe in God while they don't can use it again but a clergy doesn't allow himself to produce or use them at all.

Very true but don't act as though Muslims have only ever been the victims. The Ottomans virtually enslaved the Greeks in their own country and they committed genocide against the Armenians. Don't tell a Turk though otherwise they'll throw a temper tantrum. Hell, the very reason the Ottoman Empire fell apart is because it stuck its uninvited nose into what was until that point a war solely between European nations. Maybe us Western nations should learn from that and get out of the Middle East...

That's what I am insist on
Theocracy is best and pious people should be leaders not others that corruption is part of their existence!

Besides I told u Islam is something and Muslims's actions is something else like other religions

 

[interminable]

I personally haven't really seen that either on RF or in the news. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. But assuming you are right, on what basis are you assuming that they are doing so out of arrogance?

Where do u live???
Sounds u know nothing about that
Instead of watching your TV watch press TV for one month u will find the truth

 

[Tumah]

Where do u live???
Sounds u know nothing about that
Instead of watching your TV watch press TV for one month u will find the truth

My religion doesn't approve of watching TV.

 

[Shad]

I didn't deny the Islamic wars against the aggressive empires at that time.

The Visgoths were not the aggressors

• Byzantine empire was an aggressive colonial empire that have salved peoples all over Europe and Middle East. So, Islamic opening was freeing these peoples

So were the Islamic empires as they conquered and colonized. Muslim empires enslaved people that are not born Muslim

• Byzantine empire have done a lot of killing. Even Coptic Christians who are supposed to be from same religion but different Church have been harmed a lot

So did Muslim empires. Conflicts between Shia and Sunni for example.

• Persian empire was worse

Actually it wasn't as Christians that felt Byzantium oppression prospered under Persia rule

• Now, let us look at Crusade wars. It's not a shame to fight and concur according to the traditions at that time but the problem is how you're dealing with civilians, wounded, and prisoners

And?

• In all Muslims opening wars at that time, the history didn't record any massacres against civilians in the cities. All the time it was about fighting soldiers not killing non-fighters men, women, and children

According to Islamic history the Banu Qurayza would say otherwise.

• Muslims have a clear war law since day one, don't kill non-fighters men, women, children, religious me, monks, tree. The Islamic wars were clean

Post hoc rationalization. The monks of Otranto show otherwise.

• Crusade wars are full of killing of civilians, women, children. Give it a quick check about what happened when they concurred Jerusalem and to what level the blood of humans were there. There was no much difference between what Romans did with the city in year 70 CE and what crusades did

Sure, so where Islamic conquests. Look up the history you are talking about. Raymond of Toulouse spared those that surrendered, no ransom, no slavery. Those that accepted the condition to leave Jerusalem were spared.

• Compare this with the opening of the city by Muslims, when the Patriarch of the city asked Muslim army to call the Caliph Umar himself from Medina (1200 KM) to receive the keys of the city without one drop of blood from Christians and Jews.

Fictional story based on sources centuries removed from the event. Go look up what Saladin did such as enslaving civilians

The difference in acting with civilians is clear when the city keys are handed over peacefully without one blood drop and when crusades slaughtered tens of thousand of civilians till blood reached the knees of horses

History shows otherwise. Civilians were forced to pay a protection tax.

About decrease of number of non-Muslims : I didn't study Turkish cases but what I can tell Turkey was under tyrants reghimes since early of the 20th century supported by West

Yet the Ottomans guided by Islam enslaved millions. I did note your shift from Ottoman to Turkey as you backpedal. You have no source showing any massacre done by the Turks was done at the command of the West.

During these years, Muslims have suffered a lot, Mosques were closed, No calling for Prayer except for in Turkish language, no learning of Quran, letters of Turkish language was changed from Arabic letters to Latin letters.

Which was done by former citizens of the Ottoman Empire. At this point none of the above was outlawed in the West.

All Turkish people have suffered a lot.

At the hands of their own fellow citizens

If non-Muslims population was decreased, it's not because compulsion of religious which is Haram/forbidden in Islam but because of these atheist tyrants regimes hurted the whole society with full support from West.

Which was created as a result of Islam's heavy hand during the Ottoman empire to the point that fellow Muslims were rebelling against the Ottomans.

 

[icehorse]

Iran
Look be realistic!!!
U truly live in fantasy
Who can deny that men are lecherous and can't control their unbridled passions so the best and rational thing that we can do to protect women from those men is to wear hijab
When a woman wears it men know that this woman wants to protect her glory and doesn't want to be trampled by men

But a woman that reveals her beauty and her body to men shouldn't expect that men respect him

Something that u overlook is that we at first place are animals by reason we are human
And most of the people don't use their reason and instead are slaves of their passions

Two points:

- The Muslims living in the area that is now called "Iran" have been in violent conflict with other Muslims for more than a 1000 years. No western interventions were necessary.

- Wow, your view of mankind (specifically how men and women can relate to each other), is truly depressing.

 

[LuisDantas]

There are lots of countries that have nothing to do with other nations
They don't harm other countries
But arrogant ones insist on this point that other countries should be under our command and can't tolerate other religions and cultures

We don't want to make enemy for ourselves but they don't allow us to be so

Kurdistan. Armenia. Afeghanistan. Israel.

Whatever lessons of respect for other countries Islam teaches don't seem to be working very well at all. Or to ever have.

 

[Shad]

Who can deny that men are lecherous and can't control their unbridled passions

I can since I can control myself. Different upbringing. I was raised to respect women and take responsibility for myself. Your culture seems to teach otherwise if it's men can not control themselves then restricts women for the failing of how it raising of and the acts of it's males.

 

[interminable]

Two points:

- The Muslims living in the area that is now called "Iran" have been in violent conflict with other Muslims for more than a 1000 years. No western interventions were necessary.

What do u mean by OTHER MUSLIMS

It's about 4 centuries that this country continues to be Shia befor that was a sunny country

I repeatedly told that Islam is something and Muslims's action is something else

All of the violences that u know about them were happened by kings they weren't true Muslims and under the guise of religion did whatever they wanted
after 2500 years we could establish and have theocracy
And we can see its advantages clearly

Besides don't forget history of Europe and America that how many red skin people were killed

How many countries were invaded by England????
.....

- Wow, your view of mankind (specifically how men and women can relate to each other), is truly depressing.

Can u offer better way???
We don't want to force women to stay in home
In Iran women are in every fields of science and even are judges
Just they can't be leader and president according to law
But the best thing to protect themselves and be in society in every situation is to wear hijab
Unbridled men know not to deal with these kinds of women

 

[interminable]

Kurdistan. Armenia. Afeghanistan. Israel.

Whatever lessons of respect for other countries Islam teaches don't seem to be working very well at all. Or to ever have.

I don't know about Armenia

But those three area are involved by US

Kurdish area wanna has its own rule motivated by US
The US ultimate goal of creation of isis is to divide all countries in middle east to the smaller countries to undermine them and as a result undermine the whole Islamic countries and secure Israel regime

It's not Muslim conflict it's US Interference

 

[Kirran]

Multiple factors can be involved. It's not just 'Muslims are violent' and it's not just 'everything bad is from US'.

 

[interminable]

I can since I can control myself. Different upbringing. I was raised to respect women and take responsibility for myself. Your culture seems to teach otherwise if it's men can not control themselves then restricts women for the failing of how it raises of and the acts of it's males.

Nope
We teach and upbring children to respect but passions aren't under our control
And I am talking about common people not special one

Can anyone carry his diamonds in a crowded street and expect not to be stolen????
It's nearly impossible

Actually it depends how much value u consider for women.
If they are precious u have to protect something that is valuable.

 

[Kirran]

Women aren't some thing you keep under wraps. They're human beings who deserve respect. Teach your sons that.

 

[Shad]

Nope
We teach and upbring children to respect but passions aren't under our control

Which is a failing of what your culture teach it's people as in other cultures people can and do control their passions all the time.

And I am talking about common people not special one

So am I. Although I guess to you someone that can control themselves makes them special as it is unusual to you. Maybe travel a bit.... See the world for what it is not what you are told it is.

Can anyone carry his diamonds in a crowded street and expect not to be stolen????

Irrelevant as this is taking the acts of individuals that do steal then projecting it on to those that do not, restricting the victim and them blaming them for being a victim.

It's nearly impossible

And irrelevant

Actually it depends how much value u consider for women.

Considering it is your cultural experience and experience of how males in this culture acts it shows values for the males are higher since the blame is shifted to women that are victims of the acts. Never question why your males having issues as it would undermine the values that are taught thus Islam as it is taught in this area. Free thought is restricted. Do not question, blame the victim.

If they are precious u have to protect something that is valuable.

Which is treating people as an object of a value that needs protection. You do not see women as people, you see them as something of value like property, regardless if every women needs or wants your protection to begin with. Nevermind you ignored the thief, males, and how they are raised. In the end all you have done is equivocate that males are thieves thus criminals. I question any culture that raises generation of criminals. Remember you made the comparison, not I

 

[interminable]

Which is a failing of what your culture teach it's people as in other cultures people can and do control their passions all the time.

U overlook that in my country there is no brothel or somewhere that women can sell their bodies but in many countries there are such things
So don't say that they controlled their passions they just do that in another place
But since we can't have such places the best is what I said

Besides I doubt there is such place on earth just please tell me their names

And in all probability u will say that a person that is drunken doesn't exist in my country or they can control their passions when they are drunken!!!

So am I. Although I guess to you someone that can control themselves makes them special as it is unusual to you. Maybe travel a bit.... See the world for what it is not what you are told it is.

No need to travel statistics can say everything look at India and then tell me about the number of rapes????

Irrelevant as this is taking the acts of individuals that do steal then projecting it on to those that do not, restricting the victim and them blaming them for being a victim.

Please think more

In every country every village every home has a guard or lock or guardian or.....
This is just because less then 1 recent of the population are thieves
So don't we have to protect our properties????
Now what do u think?????

Considering it is your cultural experience and experience of how males in this culture acts it shows values for the males are higher since the blame is shifted to women that are victims of the acts. Never question why your males having issues as it would undermine the values that are taught thus Islam as it is taught in this area. Free thought is restricted. Do not question, blame the victim.

Which is treating people as an object of a value that needs protection. Regardless if every women needs or wants your protection. Nevermind you ignored the thief, males, and how they are raised. In the end all you have done is equivocate that males are thieves thus criminals. I question any culture that raises generation of criminals. Remember you made the comparison, not I

U don't have to reject all of my claims

Besides it's god order
I just told u it's reason [/quote][/quote]

 

[interminable]

Which is a failing of what your culture teach it's people as in other cultures people can and do control their passions all the time.



So am I. Although I guess to you someone that can control themselves makes them special as it is unusual to you. Maybe travel a bit.... See the world for what it is not what you are told it is.



Irrelevant as this is taking the acts of individuals that do steal then projecting it on to those that do not, restricting the victim and them blaming them for being a victim.



And irrelevant



Considering it is your cultural experience and experience of how males in this culture acts it shows values for the males are higher since the blame is shifted to women that are victims of the acts. Never question why your males having issues as it would undermine the values that are taught thus Islam as it is taught in this area. Free thought is restricted. Do not question, blame the victim.



Which is treating people as an object of a value that needs protection. You do not see women as people, you see them as something of value like property, regardless if every women needs or wants your protection to begin with. Nevermind you ignored the thief, males, and how they are raised. In the end all you have done is equivocate that males are thieves thus criminals. I question any culture that raises generation of criminals. Remember you made the comparison, not I

Please consider that I just made an example to make my points clear
We respect women like men actually human is human my mother my sister my daughter are human why do u insist that we don't consider them as a human???